LarryC
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Posts posted by LarryC
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----------------On 1/4/2004 8:40:21 AM tillmbil wrote:I have been considering purchasing a line conditioner for my 2 channel system. Is there any sonic gain . . .?I have been looking at the monster2600----------------
Bill,
I don't have any experience with those, but, at a much pricier level, I have been using a PS Audio P-300 power regenerator and have had notable sonic improvement in some components. Go to www.psaudio.com for more information. It converts line current AC to DC and re-synthesizes a pure AC sine wave. The company states that it is not a filter or line conditioner.
The AC output frequency can be varied, which some claim benefits a variety of components. I, however, use it only for my CD player, turntable, and cassette and reel-to-reel tape decks, whose motors of course require 60 Hz.
The good news it that, oddly enough, it effected an audible sonic improvement in all the above components, even the TT. The disadvantages are (1) the regeneration process approximately doubles the power consumed so it's not very green (or cool in the summer); (2) the P-300 is limited to 300 watts output, which is no problem with the items I use it with; and (3) it adds a step or two to turning everything on. Fortunately, I found no advantage to using it with my pre-amp or tuner, and I felt no need to consider having to get a more expensive higher-power version for my amps.
PS Audio will sell these with a full 30-day money back guarantee. The customer pays shipping both ways, and one must keep and return with the original packing materials.
Anyway, an interesting item, if not very reasonable cost-wise.
Larry
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----------------On 1/3/2004 6:23:51 PM NOSValves wrote:Ben,Sharp catch there I wasn't thining that he wouldn't have a clue about are American slangs !Cheers Craig----------------
Yeah, the Swiss probably only know about Swiss cheese!
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Fini, do you hear TT motor noise through your cart, in addition to feedback from outside the TT? I still wonder about a problem with internal TT isolation -- did you ever get info on securing for shipping? Is something around the tonearm or the plinth resting on something it shouldn't? Is the plinth suspended on springs and moveable, or is it cinched down?
Larry
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While you're waiting for more "feedback" -- the feedback you're getting on this TT sounds extreme, like something incorrectly rests or rubs on something else, thereby conducting feedback directly to the arm and bypassing whatever isolation is supposed to be there. Sometimes TTs have a shipping screw or whatever to hold things together and keep them from flailing around until it's unpacked. You might see something like that on the bottom of the TT. If the upper chassis is supposed to "float," loosening said screw or whatever allows it to do so and might solve some of the f/b problem.
Larry
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Fini,
Are any shipping screws still tightened down? I'm not familiar with that table or if it has a floating suspension, but being tightened down could create exaggerated feedback.
Larry
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Back on topic, did you ever read the Heyser review in Audio?
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----------------On 12/15/2003 1:08:57 PM tillmbil wrote:Yes it had treble, but just really falt sounding. I could really hear guitar strings being plucked on the odl wire setup but it was no where near the sound level with the new wire.Hey Larry, how are the KHorns? I have that record list complete, but really shortened the title's on the Orchestra albums. They were just way to long and I was tired the night I did it. I have it at home and will have to e-mail it to you or maybe post on the forum as an attachement.----------------
How about the mid-range? Check outputs from both your horns. If you get sounds from both tweeter and MR, others would know better how to solve it. Maybe your mid-range is out.
They're just fine -- there's MORE than enough detail in the thread "A Question for Dean"!
Your list will be really interesting. Gary and I can pick from it for listening.
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Bill,
Do you hear anything at all from the tweeter and/or MR when you put your ear up next to the horn mouths?
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Bill,
I really like it -- warm, comfortable, homey, great traditional furniture. I think the nice, largeish paintings also help put the CW's in very nice perspective, size- and looks-wise. Glad you put the fish in another room.
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----------------On 12/14/2003 12:53:43 PM DeanG wrote:Two tweeters, two midrange compression drivers, and the crossovers.----------------
--- plus, Klipsch's new Monster Cable "Z-series" wire "engineered especially for Klipsch." I think it's good stuff. Not a small part of the cost (or charge), either. It replaces all the wire from the input terminals on, i.e., from the crossover to the woofer (the entire crossover is on the inside of the bass bin door -- you get a new bass bin door with crossover attached inside) as well as on up to the MR and tweeter.
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----------------On 12/14/2003 12:24:53 PM NOSValves wrote:Larry,You did the Klipschhorn updates available from Klipsch ? Did you do them all at once or did you happen to install the crossover by itself and then the drivers. It would of been cool to pin point what had the most effect.Craig----------------
Craig,
Yes, I got them from Klipsch, among the first kits available, and did it all at once. Dean's right about it all being engineered to work together -- the crossover points were changed, I think because of different response curves, plus one driver, the mid-range I believe, has a lower output. All this also required substantial crossover change.
I'm not sure that I, at least, could have evaluated each device separately, not to mention that it took a minimum of 40 hrs. for the wires and maybe the drivers to break in enough for the bass to come back up. Lots of complexity for trying separate evaluations. Interesting question, though!
BTW, the search for TWO new drivers, especially the very unusual mid-range, was described to me as a big challenge and a lot of work. That much, at least, seems like a solid commitment by Klipsch to continuing and making the Klipschorn better.
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----------------On 12/14/2003 11:40:38 AM DeanG wrote:"Though, I'm not sure "new" is the smartest route."Yeah, I'm taking a little heat for this. I look at it this way -- a mint pair is going to run me $2500 to $3000 plus the packing and transportation hassles, with no absolute guarantee that I'm getting what I paid for. There is a nice used pair right now, and I haven't completely ruled them out. I'm basically using the rest of this month tothink.I suppose when you get right down to it -- it's more of a gut feeling kind of thing. Once I get that feeling, I can't shake it until I follow through. Electronics are different. They come in manageable boxes, and it's easy to play around -- moving things in and out of the house at will. This won't be that way. So, I have to get what I really want the first time around -- for not doing so will result in a huge hassle factor down the road."Oh....and Khorns are as wide as 3 RF7s."Yes. I'm mathematically declined.----------------
Replacing my prior up-to-date innards with the AK-4 gave me a definite, audible benefit, and new will have the AK-4 drivers and crossover. That change was expensive, which can be taken into account in considering the cost of new ones. Hopefully you can hear the 2003's as well as others.
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----------------On 12/13/2003 11:15:27 PM mobile homeless wrote:Dean, I have written the forum member to see if he might weigh in here. I still think the Khorn the best option but obviously the room will present some compromises. Moving to LR will be good down the road. I find the Khorns would actually take up less space, fitting into the corners.The above owner reports no need for a real sweet spot sitting location in this setup with good imaging. Another forum member here has heard this setup many a time with good reports. I leave it up to the owner to chime in here.kh----------------
Dean,
This is my setup. I don't have a separate listening room, so I put 'em in the living room, which I've always done anyway. One issue for you may be where the equipment goes; mine is in the adjoining room to the left, and the cabling goes through the baseboard behind the left speaker. The only equipment in this room besides the speakers is the amplifier (a Joule-Electra tube OTL) which you can see behind the TV (now in a TV cabinet).
(Edit: pic below added, apologies to those tired of seeing it!)
Clearly I wanted acceptable decor in my 11' X 18' living room, and false corners are completely out of the question. The Khorns are across the short wall, and I find the sound to be very fine. I also am not much into sweet spots, do not think that listening to this setup demands finding one, and have found find that people can enjoy them sitting in a variety of places in the room, although the far end is preferable for most. While I cannot locate my speakers in either of the other two corners anyway (stairwell and short alcove wall), I think they could be too far apart for most listeners, if placed along the long wall.
The setup has clear compromises. That glass panel door undoubtedly loses bass, and I only partly dealt with it by putting a plywood panel over the part coverd by the bass bin -- decor rules! However, note also the door's vertical molding behind the horn! Another plywood panel fills that in to complete a solid corner.
I was thinking that if you put the one next to a window like Lynnm's, it just might be best to create a single wall panel spaced out enough to clear the molding and baseboard, maybe routed out for the window sill if still a problem.
The window on the right is probably a weakness, but fortunately the speaker just clears the molding. (I DID have to cut the side grill frame under the grill cloth to clear the sill.)
So --- the problems with my setup are, room too small (1930's small-room Cape Cod), big furniture too close, glass panels too close, and possible bass effects of a transient 1962-era factory mod in the bass horn. The benefits, though, are great -- that fine, seamless, big, open sound from the top all the way down to the bass, and outstanding sound throughout the room and into other rooms too. These are natural mahogany, BTW.
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----------------On 12/9/2003 11:22:33 AM DeanG wrote:Lynnm's livingroom looks like mine. That is exactly the situation I am facing.It looks to me like the fabric side of the K-horn is higher/taller than the window-ledge. How do you "cover" it without losing part of the window? How many inches tall does it take to seal the sides?----------------
The answer to your last question is probably up to the top of the bass bin, at the bottom of the decorative inset as seen from the front.
If your sitution is like Lynnm's, there seem to be several issues. You'll need to get the tailboard set firmly into A corner. That means being able to slide the speaker all the way into A flush wall on the left as well as the right.
I see two barriers: one, the window sill, which could be got around by cutting out part of the side grill under its grill cloth cover, relatively easy. However, the vertical window molding, assuming it projects out from the wall, may be a lot more challenging -- it would keep the speaker from being moved flush into the wall, because it butts up against (1) the top and (2) the shelf on top of the bass bin, which has the SAME shape and dimensions as the top. This is a feature easily seen by looking at the horn from the side or back.
I can understand you (and probably Lynnm) not wanting to build a full extra wall as depicted in DFH. I didn't, either, for decor reasons. So, instead, I suspect you'd have to either: (1) cut two chunks out of the vertical window molding, at the levels of the speaker and bass bin top to let them slide all the way into the wall (and fill them in or replace the molding when the speakers are moved elsewhere) -- this would also require cutting into the side grill -- OR (2) fill in the wall with panels to bring it out flush with the molding. This can get complicated; it might take one panel cut the width of the distance between the vertical molding and the corner -- AND cut at the bottom to fit over the baseboard! -- PLUS a panel cut to fill in below the window sill, but shaped to cover both the bottom of the sill AND the bassboard, PLUS another small one to fill in the gap above the sill and up to the top of the bass bin. I would suggest considering the last in any case, since window glass is said to be transparent to low frequencies.
No. 1 above is just theoretical on my part. I only had to cut a side grill away to slide into a window sill on one side. But, on the other, I did have to build in a couple of panels. Just thinking about what I had to go through in doing panels, it SEEMS easier to cut pieces out of the vertical molding (and the grill frame). However, I haven't really done that myself.
Finally, the be sure that whatever you do WILL allow the tailboard to slide FULLY back into either the real or the paneled-up corner -- very important!
Hope something here helps.
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----------------On 12/8/2003 1:09:05 AM DeanG wrote:I really believe that what I'm running right now would match up really well with Heritage.I'm dying over here, after measuring everything out in the livingroom, I'm going to run into some real problems in one of my corners. The window is much closer to the corner than I thought when I eyed it. Looks like I'd lose 14" of the window if I go with some plywood or something to finish the horn (since I need the wall to "finish" the bass horn). Since this window is the "front" window, I'm starting to think it might look kind of tacky. Debbie sure wasn't too thrilled with the idea.I sure wish Klipsch had the LaScala in a finished version.----------------
Are you saying the plywood would be visible, or that the horn extends into part of the window area, or both? I put a plywood sheet over only that part of a glass-paneled door (to the outside) that is blocked by the horn, and the sheet is hidden by the horn. I did not extend the plywood out to a proper prescribed length, so that the glass starts to show as soon as it emerges from the side grill. The appearance is fine with me. The edge of the door is 11" from the corner and the glass begins at 15"; the K-horn top runs 22" from the corner to where it angles away from the wall.
Mine is both a visual and no doubt sonic compromise, visually acceptable because the door is a minor part of the decor. I do have to live with some bass weakness, which may have partly to do with other things as well. I could see a much bigger visual problem if it were a front window, though. In fact, my other horn starts to angle away from the wall just 2" short of a living room window. It doesn't seem to intrude on the view, depending on the viewing angle.
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----------------On 12/6/2003 4:15:10 PM DeanG wrote:It would probably be a mistake to short change the sound of the new Klipschorn....This is probably my last set of "big" speakers. I will set them up and just listen to music. I'm tired of the "listening chair". The Klipschorn transcends all of that. The Klipschorn represents true listening freedom.----------------
FWIW, I replaced 1980's vintage drivers & crossover with the AK-4, and thought it a considerable improvement (1970s' and earlier may be as good, of course). Although Klipsch doesn't market Heritage, it undertook a considerable commitment two or so years ago to source TWO new drives AND redesign a new network that seems to get good marks. Also, AK-4 kits cost over $1,800 per pair, which one could factor into the cost of new.
Also FWIW, I myself have not felt the need to be attentive to a sweet spot. Friends have been able to enjoy music from a variety of places in my living room, although the end away from the speakers is probably preferable.
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I believe there was also a 934, the same model and chassis without the playback electronics. Leads would plug directly into a "tape head" input such as the Marantz 7 and others had at the time.
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Win, thanks! Advice very well taken. I'll keep you informed.
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----------------On 12/1/2003 9:35:18 PM khorn58 wrote:My rear port 60 cornwall has the Ev 15wk this out of all my cornwalls sound the best in the bass/mids. But this may have to do with the rear port loading the cornerMy 59 khorn has the k33j (jennsen) they sound great.My 58 khorns have the trusonic .I could try a ev15wk thats in a unused short horn in one of my khorns and compare.----------------
Khorn58,
Thanks for replying! That comparison in a K-horn would be fascinating! However, time is getting short, I'm pretty sure I'll be bidding on these, and that's a lot of trouble for you to go to. Yes, I remember the bass and mids were especially good with the 15WK. It must be a privilege to have the storied Trusonics and Jensens!
It might be interesting to compare notes after I get these, though who knows how my current crossovers/drivers will match up? Because one is torn, I'll also have to wrestle with whether to recone both with "generic" stuff if the other sounds especially good, and how good will they sound then? Now, if you or someone had two 15WKs to get rid of....
Again, thanks --
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I'm thinking about trying for an old, old pair (1959) of E-V 15WK's available on e-bay. The auction ends tomorrow (12/2). I'm very curious about how these sound, having been very impressed with them back then. My K-horns are vintage 1962, have K-33Es.
However, one of the two woofs has a tear in the cone near the rim and the paper looks old and deteriorated-- I'm told it, and probably both, would have to be re-coned. Re-coning kits for the 15W, let alone the 15WK, are no longer available. In fact, very few involved with E-V speakers today even know about the 15WK, the Klipsch version.
The only way to re-cone these is to use a "generic" re-coning kit. Someone, in Michigan I think, recones vintage E-V woofers. The 15WK was supposed to have a 3.2 ohm voice coil and to be for horn-loading only; she is aware of the 3.2 ohm voice coil, and will match the the one that's in there as closely as possible. Still, it's a generic cone replacement.
So ---- is this worth pursuing to try to satisfy my curiosity about the sound of the E-V 15WK woofers? Not exactly cost-effective, by the time I win an auction and get them reconed, for sure! What do folks think?
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Actually, I'd be very interested in comments from members like John Albright who have in-depth knowledge of such things, on possible good and bad effects of substituting these old EV 15WKs for the K33-Es in my '62 K-horns. John, you may remember the odd throat configuration in my bass horns. Thanks!
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Thanks, Gary. Trying them would be fun AND informative for both of us. Happy TG to you and your family as well!
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Klipschfoot,
Go to http://www.hifilit.com/hifilit/Klipsch/Klipsch.htm for a pic of the two Shorthorn models (I think p. 13 of the last year on that web page).
These drivers could have been the "K-Ortho-15" speaker option of the Model S Shorthorn. (The Model T, of which I had one a long time ago and which were supposed to be pretty rare, only had the 15", whereas the S could have either the the K-Ortho-12 or 15).
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Gary,
I think I'd be very interested in the 15WK's and maybe the tweets, to see how they'd do in my horns, just as a lark. As I think you know, I have a fond memory of that vintage of 15WK -- time to see if it's real or not. How do I avoid being sniped, or do it myself?
Power Line conditioners
in Technical/Restorations
Posted
Bill,
I/we'll be interested to hear how it all sounds after you get all the electronics in place -- maybe you won't need any tweaks or accessories. Your current listening room looked terrific in the earlier pics; can you fit K-horns in another room, like I did with mine?
Larry