Tubinhard

That's a nice offer Tom, I'll let you know Tuesday morning. To the other Tom, I was wondering if there is a "left" and a "right" K-horn now? That is, are the binding posts on the same side of each K-horn, or are "mirror imaged"?

I'm very surprised no one here has picked these up. I've spoken to this seller several times, and he had no problem coming down to earth. His original asking price was based on what he was told by someone within Klipsch -- who he called for the purpose of getting an idea of their value. I myself traded several emails with Qman, and a few others of note, and the consensus was definitely that these were worth between $3000 and $3500. They are in excellent shape and use the AK-3 crossovers -- which are supposed to be VERY good. A set of excellent condition Mighty Klipschorns, signed by The Man himself -- and they're just sitting there.

Mike, you're too funny. EriK, you're funny too.

Personal attack? Hell, I took it as a compliment.

Craig could probably do anything they would do for much less, and yes, it would probably be worth it -- but not for $650. If not opting for mods, you might do better to sell the Jolida and upgrade to another amp.

Kevin, I'm pretty sure you have plywood where it matters. I believe the outside is MDF, which really should be better for controlling resonances. Nothing worse than a vibrating box.

Dee, we may have to email Trey Cannon or Bob Gassel to get that one straightened out. I'm pretty sure it's $1800 for the pair. It sure as hell better be, because it was a driving factor in me deciding to go with new ones. Mint used Klipschorns are between $2K and $3K, and by the time I added the cost for shipping and the upgrade package, I thought -- mind as well buy new ones. Rick, it's worse than you can imagine. I'm driving to Terre Haute on Monday for the pickup, and I have NO gear at home to run them with. Frank Van Alstine won't have my preamp ready for three weeks, and I still haven't made a choice yet for the amplifier(s). The original plan was to use the lag to build the false corners, but I just don't have the energy right now.

"Even with the efficiency of Klipschorns, anyone going the SET route is severely limiting what kind of music he can listen to with justice done to it. Yes, if you want to listen to a recording of a solo lute player in a small room, you might be able to squeeze by with SET. " Man, am I actually going to have to come in here and defend SET? I don't know Paul, most of what you say is true, but GOOD SET amps really aren't THAT anemic. I just don't think they are the best choice for Rock, Pop, and large Symphonies. Obviously, the more complex the music, and the bigger the room, the greater the challenges. Complex music just chews through power (place higher demands on the amp), and large rooms just soak up the output. I just think a person really needs to THINK about their listening habits before going into it. "...if you want to really take control of the air in the low frequencies, the idea of using SET is ludicrous. You can get the same dB level with two different set-ups but be hearing completely different presentations. All I can figure is that a lot of people like a weak and dainty rendition of music." I certainly agree with the former, and I think this where they suffer the most -- when needing to completely load a room. However, this is again related to music types, and the latter part of your statement might be more accurate if we say many people enjoy "delicately beautiful, charming, or exquisite works (dainty). The rendition only becomes "weak" when the complexity and demands outrun the amp. It is true however, and I've said it often myself -- All 90db steady state readings on the Rat Shack Meter do not sound equal. "All speakers are inefficient to some degree--watts you put in do not yield the same amount of acoustic watts. Klipsch recommends having the capability of 5 acoustic watts in an average sized living room. With a 3-speaker array of two Klipschorns and a center Belle, this would be accomplished with each speaker being driven by a 20-watt amplifier. Otherwise, it's nap time instead of feeling goosebumps." We need to agree that many do not need five acoustic watts for their music, or to be thrilled by what they hear. For example, Leo listens to Chamber music, and I'm sure he doesn't need but less than 1 acoustic watt to render it accurately in his room. Some listen to Quartet Jazz, and again, probably no more than 1 acoustic watt is needed. I just think it's relative to position. Some of that music would put me to sleep if it was played at a 120db. "Klipsch recommends 20 watts minimum for all their Heritage series speakers. They do not recommend SET or any other low-watt amps. All loudness is not equal. To reproduce music properly instead of anemically, you have to have sufficient power. There is no getting away from the basic laws of physics by applying the so-called magic of SET." I don't remember seeing anything in the literature you showed us where Klipsch discouraged the SET topology, only insufficient power to reproduce large scale Classical properly. Am I wrong? I just got done reading some stuff on a DIY site, and I've decided it's ALL magic.

I've been thinking 845 for a while, but they are freaking expensive. This is a homebrew version by someone who looks like they knew what they were doing. I've been emailing back and forth with the seller. I'm waiting for a pic of the underside. Can you tell if this is dual mono -- or is it just chokes galore?

I like these too. I would have to build them though, but it doesn't look all that painful. They also have a push-pull version. http://www.worldaudiodesign.co.uk/wadproducts/300bintro.html

Here's a SET amp I think I could live with. Now, doesn't this thing just have Rock-n-Roll written all over it. What do you think Craig, I mean, it weighs 110 pounds. http://cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cl.pl?ampstube&1077675007&class&3&4&

Like I said before, I love the RF-7, and had them for a long time, and I don't h quite a while without a thought of selling them. I only sold mine so I could get a taste of BIGGER into my listening. However, everyone knows that BIGGER isn't always Better. I definitely plan on getting another set of RF-7s down the road.

O.K. you talked me into it -- 1.8 thunderous watts. O.K., big ugly WE 300B push-pulls, yes? What's with the missing tubes? Man, what happened to all the caps and resistors?

Yes, the AK-4 Upgrade Package is $900 per speaker, $1800 for the pair. Two boards, two midrange drivers, and two tweeters. The board is attached to the removable inside panel of the bass bin. As far as how they sound, I have no idea. Typical Heritage I'm sure. Screeching treble, blaring midrange, and a nice rubbery bass.

Those are nice Guy, but there is a "sold pending" on those. Uh hello -- I can't see eBay.

Allan is right. As a matter of fact, I would think alcohol in general would be a bad idea for a petroleum based product like vinyl. I use Denatured Alcohol to strip the Shellac off of old speakers. So, let me ask you clowns something. What's the best thing to clean your hands with after working on your car? How about the vinyl of your car's interior. Strip the crap, yet leave some lubricating properties behind? Just a thought. We used to do really stupid stuff. When recording "trashed" albums, we would put some distilled water on the disk and let the stylus track right through it. Cool huh?

What's unethical? If he returns the speakers in perfect condition -- the dealer is out nothing. In this case, the local dealer would have made more money getting the speakers back and selling them to someone willing to pay full price. I don't understand the Grey Market. How are internet dealers getting this stuff if Klipsch only sends things to their Dealers?

Ahhrrrggg. Can't see ebay from work. What the hell are they?

It's cake. I would send them with the wires attached and labeled. You would just have to attach them to the drivers. Rather easy actually. 1) Remove the terminal cups. 2) Remove the hardware from the back of the terminal cups 3) Remove the screws from the horn and remove. 4) Remove the two bottom screws from the woofer beneath the horn. Using your right hand, reach in through the hole where the horn just was -- and grab hold of the magnet to stablize the driver while you take out the other two screws. Put down the screwdriver and feed the driver into your free hand. Just take your time and pay attention to what you are doing. It's not difficult, but you need to pay attention. You can also lay the speaker down on it's back and do this if you feel the need for more control. 5) Feed all of the wires from the crossover through the now vacant holes in the face of the terminal cup (remember, you removed all of the hardware). 6) Attach the wires labled "Woofer 2" to the terminals of the bottom woofer. The ends of the wires will have gold plated quick connects crimped on and soldered -- which will simply slip onto the ends of the woofer terminals. They only go on one way, so it's impossible to screw up here (the negative terminal takes a 0.187" connector, and postive takes 0.250"). 7) Attach the wires labeled "Tweeter" to the top cabinet brace with some tape. Make sure it is secure. 8) Pick up the previously removed woofer, and set one of its edges along the bevel like you would do if you were getting ready to drop it in. Before seating it, connect the wires labled "Woofer 1". Seat the driver in place and replace screws. Snug down, then one quarter turn. Do not overtighten. 9. Pick up the horn, get it up close to it's opening, retrieve the wires labeled "Tweeter" from the cabinet brace (remove tape), and thread into the rear of the driver. These are spring loaded push down types, and they take bare wire. Just push down and feed the wires in (+ and -). Seat driver into place and replace screws. 10. Attach speaker cables to binding posts on amp(s). Nothing to it -- just take your time.

How long does it take to make them? It takes me about a week working in my spare time. I think I built the last set in four days. It's tough because I work lots of hours, and I only end up with about an hour a night before I feel shutting my brain down. Of course, I can do just about anything with these, and in fact I have. My last set were pained black, and the layout was different. Those pics are out here too -- but I can't find them.

"Do the new boards mount the exact same way?" No, they are simply too big. Leo's are sitting in the bottoms of his RF-7s, and mine are sitting outside, on the floor -- between the amps and speakers.

The reason for going to the plywood boards is because the parts are SO much bigger -- there is just no way to get them on the PCB. There are pictures here on the site somewhere -- I will hunt them down and post the pictures so you can see what I mean. The circuit is near identical. Leo taught me how to trace out a PCB properly, and sent me a schematic as well. There are only three differences between Leo's boards and mine circuit wise. 1) Leo went with the Jensen Paper in Oils, and I went with the PPT Thetas and ICW Clarity Caps. 2) Leo stayed with the stock inductors in the high frequency section, and I changed them out going with the Janzens from Denmark. 3) Leo dropped the resistor value in the notch circuit to 1.66 ohms, and I accomplished the same by slightly dropping the DCR of one of the inductors, and using 1.86 ohms for the resistor. I never did the partial upgrade, I rebuilt mine from the ground up from the get-go. So, how much difference there is between the partial upgrade and the full blown method is unknown to me -- all I know is that Leo and myself are reporting similiar results over the stock offering. You could start with the partial upgrade, and those caps could then be used later for the full blown version down the road.

George, There are two ways you can go. 1) Use the original PCBs already attached to the rear of the terminal cups (the black plastic round things on the back where the speaker cables attach. The small boards are scewed to the back) -- and simply have two caps and one resistor replaced. A simple enough mod, and I would be glad to do it for you. All you would have to do is remove the terminal cups, unhook the wires from the drivers (label the wires with some tape so know where they go), box the terminal cups with attached boards, and send them to me. Since I could do the work in about an hour or so, you would only be without music for the time it takes to ship to me and back to you. I would do this using the very fine RelCap AudioCap PPT Thetas and Mills resistors. Price would be $225 for both boards -- which would include parts, labor, and shipping. I see no reason to use the Auricaps. It's a good metallized polyproplene, but for just a little bit more money you can get the best film and tin foil there is. 2) Chuck the PCBs. and go with full blown upgraded boards. Point to point wired on Baltic Birch boards. All parts are replaced with the best there is. $600 shipped. Yeah, this stuff ain't cheap Leo, that would be wonderful.

I have to agree with Mike -- give it some time. Do you have any soldering skills?

Uh...yeah...that's the way I saw it too. Look at the Bastard -- showing no remorse whatsoever.