Tubinhard

I was talking about the original quads.

They are too much like SET amps. Rather anemic.

Are you out of your mind? Then I wouldn't be able to shoot people while I'm drunk. C'mon man, use some common sense.

Power off and pull the plug. Wait 15 seconds, plug back in and power up. Still there? Will the drawer open?

Shouldn't you be in bed? Happy New Year Craigo.

Oh Lynn, I agree with you completely. I think 30 watts is plenty with Klipschorns, in fact it was perfect amount with the RF-7s. 30 watts is a number I'm very comfortable with. It's 10 watts and under that I'm a little leary of -- but only because of peak demands at the higher levels. My next venture, though power being way beyond what is necessary or even reasonable -- is more centered around my curiosity regarding the sound of the circuit. I just want to hear a good hybrid approach, and see what the Klipschorns do with an amp not influenced by variations in load impedance.

That's about right John. Now, let's figure it using just math that most use. The Klipschorn is 104db/w, add 3db for the other speaker, and we are sitting at 107db/w. 1 watt = 107db 2 watts = 110db 4 watts = 113db 8 watts = 117db You are about 12' back, and so now we subtract 3db for every 3 feet you move away from the speakers. 117db at 3 feet 114db at 6 feet 111db at 9 feet 108db at 12 feet So now, someone would say that with 8 watts and Klipschorns, you should be able to hit 108db, 12 feet away -- but that's not what you found is it? In fact, you found EXACTLY what we have been saying since last month: That you need between 3 and 5 times the steady state amount (depending on recording), to reproduce the peaks cleanly. Your ears were telling you that 99db was pretty much IT. Where did the rest of the ouput go? This is the difference between "watts", and "acoustic watts". Now, and I know this is hard for people to accept, but because of the soft clipping nature of tubes, and especially SET amps -- dynamic peak restriction is clearly evident when you compare lower power to higher power. For example: with a 30 watt amp, your steady 99db would have been generating peaks of near 104db. Try your experiment again with another amp. Take it up to 99db and watch the peaks.

Maurice's primary objective obviously isn't 'loudness'. I mean, looking at a 9 watt amp makes that kind of obvious. "A 9 watt/ch amp will yield an SPL of 106db +/- at 1 metre ( approximately 39" ) from each speaker resulting in a combined 107-108 db Spl at that distance. Translation = LOUD" I wish folks would quit figuring it this way, because it doesn't work. 5 minutes with some watt meters, and an SPL meter -- shows just how far off figuring SPL as above is. If you have 9 watts, and use all 9 watts -- you'll be in clipping 75% of the time. Also, if those speakers are not positioned in corners, sensitivity will drop to 92db/w. I can safely predict that with that amp, in an average size room, with those speakers, a steady 85db, with near 90db peaks will be reached -- cleanly. This is probably plenty loud enough for most people, but not all. Personally, I consider 60db to be a near whisper.

"Heck the RF-3's and the Marantz sound more beefier and thicker than my RF-7's on my Rotel Reciever" Turn off the "loudness" button.

I might trade off a new Mustang, but you don't buy a Corvette for just a spin around the block. I received first rate service by both JJ and David at Audio Connection. It's amazing how much stuff they have packed into that small place -- and it's all quality. I also bought something else from JJ while I was there. He had two sets of near mint DQ-10s in the warehouse with the Klipschorns, and he hauled them back to the store for me to take a gander. He offered the four to me for $150 each, and well -- that's a no brainer there boys. I'll enjoy working on these over the summer, especially since my system will be DONE.

"I predict they will stay, but if I were those crossovers, I'd sleep with one eye open!!"

Yes, I picked mine up at Audio Connection in Terre Haute -- JJ had a set in stock. My understanding is that any dealer that sells Reference can order Heritage. I believe there are only 15 dealers in the country that actually stock, or show Heritage. Right now, the wait is anywhere from 6 weeks to 5 months. I would call Klipsch and ask.

http://forums.klipsch.com/idealbb/view.asp?topicID=42782&sessionID={0D5B97E9-B6D9-49B3-AC54-FCC1A65F578A} http://forums.klipsch.com/idealbb/view.asp?topicID=43126&sessionID={0D5B97E9-B6D9-49B3-AC54-FCC1A65F578A} http://forums.klipsch.com/idealbb/view.asp?topicID=43297&sessionID={0D5B97E9-B6D9-49B3-AC54-FCC1A65F578A}

I'm exausted. I will save the tale for tomorrow. Suffice it to say, they are quite beautiful. If they sound half as good as they look, I will be very pleased indeed.

I hate to do this to you, but when you get time, it would be great if you would write a little while paper on this. This is fairly important stuff.

Yeah Kevin, I knew that. Thanks. Craig, 12' x 50' x 8' is hardly closet sized. Pretty good for you Craig, I figured you'd pop a blood vessel. Go the Tubes Asylum and do a search on ALSTINE.

Mandeville PFDRD

Yes, but "tube-like", is not tubes. It will be interesting hearing these pieces. The fact Kevin says the 550ex stomps the AE-25 is surprising. I'm rather fond of that little amp. Kevin, I spoke at length with Frank when I placed my order for the T7. He actually reminds me very much of someone else I know -- but I won't give you heartburn by mentioning him by name. Ryan, I missed your post somehow. I actually had considered a whole slew of vintage pieces, but I just don't have the stomach for ebay anymore. Guy, The Gaincard is cool. Check out the prices though. That project sure didn't start out like that. Leave it to the High-End to take a relatively simple concept, using hardly any parts, and then put a sticker price on it putting it out of reach for most. The new Klipschorn is a bit of different animal. No simple crossover with these, and my gut is telling me to get some meat behind them.

Excellent call Guy. I was wondering who was manufacturing those. That thing is supposed to sound VERY good. Thanks for muddying the waters.

Rick, I'm actually looking at the 350 -- it's the same circuit but with 160 watts instead of 250. I am going to call Frank on Tuesday and let him give me his thoughts on solid state crossover distortion, and the higher distortion levels inherent with solid state at low power. Another option that is really appealing to me is the Quicksilver Horn Monos. The online Stereophile review is a good read. Mike Sanders uses them on his Klipschorns, and I figure if they're good enough for him, they're good enough for me. Basically, I mostly want simplicity. The next year is going to be spent reworking the house, and I'm not going to have time for tweaking. I'm just going to want to turn it on and jam. Anything audio related is hopefully going to be spent rebuilding crossovers for people.

It has a lot of good things going for it. What really appeals to me is that I won't have to fight frequency response issues when the load varies. This is the only downside of tube gear -- the variations in impedance leading to non-flat response. I also like the idea of having some nice control for the 15 inchers in the bass bins. Using the tubes for voltage, and FETs for output current makes sense to me, and the fact that Frank uses little if any feedback with these designs tells me he's not a spec freak. It's hard not to admire someone who balances the numbers with the sound. I don't see any harm in trying it out. It may not do everything well, but maybe well enough until I can make a low power tube choice I'm comfortable with. I plan on buying some RF-7s again in the future, and I could always move this amp to power those down the road.

Man, you guys are mean. I want one of these:

Believe me, I'm not looking for the Holy Grail of anything. I just want the cleanest 25-50 watts I can afford. Mike said, "But what you have to go through to get the big SET, one would be better off with a moderate sized well-designed Push-Pull." Ugh yeah, no doubt. I have to pay off my K-horns by March or April, and so I'm not exactly rolling in dough over here.

Yes.

Have you compared the Meshplates to anything else? I've always wondered if there was a big difference in the sound considering the cost of those. What do you think about them? What kind of wood did you go with for the bases? Did you just stain the Adler? Those things do look very nice.