JTA
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You have email.
Have not received an email from you yet.
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I'll put these up here before they go on eBay and Audigon.
KLF-C7 - Black
9/10 Condition
Rope caulked horn
Original Box
$450
KLF-C7 - Black
8/10 Condition
$400
KSP-S6s - Black
8/10 Condition
$600
KSP-S6s - White
7.5/10 Condition
Rope caulked horns
$525
Pictures available. Private message me if you are interested.
Thanks.
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Why not just get the Cornwalls you want now, assuming that is the speaker you really want to end up with, and then build your system around what sounds best on them?
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After we tried fooling around with them again today, I really wished I could have come back here and said that something was wrong with them. The problem is, everything in them with the exception of the woofers was replaced, and the wiring, which was never wrong to begin with, has now been checked by three seperate people. You could blame the room, but frankly other speakers I have had in it sound just fine and there is almost zero echo. Perhaps there is something else at play here, but I feel as though every alternative has been exhausted as the electronics were replaced. Exchanging these for another pair would be pointless. We could blame the tree the plywood in them came from, I guess, but that is rather absurd. I've spent as much time on them that I feel they are worth, so I am moving on.
Anyway, thanks again guys. I already talked with the place that I got them from and they are taking them back no problem.
Perhaps someday, as I said to Dean, I will fiddle with my D Khorns and see if I can make something out of them that I and my friends enjoy listening to.
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O.K., I remember now -- you explained where the kits came from in one of the emails -- I'd forgotten about that. Yeah, take 'em back. You still have Klipschorns, and you can get them out of storage and start playing. Even just a set of ALKs so you adjust the attenuation level of the squawkers is probably all you need. Trachorns later if you want better performance. I get a load of emails from people asking me if there is anything I can do about the aggressive nature of the midrange -- so it's not like you're alone. TB is right about the K-400/401 -- it definitely has issues when loaded up.
So, what else does that dealer of yours have?
Dean, yeah that makes a lot more sense. Someday I will come back to them. I own the Ds for nothing so its not like my investment is huge. Maybe come winter when I have some more free time I will rebuild them on my own and start playing around.
For speakers he has: Wilson, B&W, McIntosh, Martin Logan, Klipsch, JBL and a few other lines. He just got in a set of gorgeous automotive black Wilson Watt/Puppys and also a nice pair of B&W 800s. Those might be the to two front runners as my next choice, though I hadn't really planned on spending that big right now. Hey it isn't an illness if you admit it right?
One other option and I was thinking about taking a trip down to their facility in PA to check them out is Legacy Audio. Their Whipser speakers look like something I might really enjoy.
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Josh -- I notice in your signature you say you have some Decorator Klipschorn with AK-4 upgrades", and in one of your earlier posts you mentioned trying "the other networks". You also just recently said you tried other midrange drivers. So, I'm gathering that you have another set of Klipschorns with AK-4's in them -- and you spent the day swapping the networks and drivers with these new models -- is that correct?
I have a pair of D Khorns in storage, that were given to me as a gift. The last time I heard them was a very long time ago and only briefly. I remember them being great but honeslty I was so young at the time, anything loud would have probably made me think it was wonderful. I recently bought a complete AK4 kit for them with new K33s as I wanted to use them as a replacement for my Cornwalls (which I also recently restored) because I finally had some decent corners for them. I made a few posts here about getting plans and info on converting my Ds to Bs, but I was given the opportunity to pick up a beautiful set of Mahogany '04s for a very attractive price, so I jumped on it.
Basically, I went and got my AK4 kits for my Ds and put them in the new ones.
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LOL! It's your loss, not mine. You just don't want to admit that you don't have them hooked up right. I don't know if you're worried about wounding your pride, or just that you have a bad case of Brennanitis and want to act like Klipschorns are so bad that you can barely stand to hear them. Either way, your problem was diagnosed way back on page one.
They are hooked up properly. I changed every single electrical piece inside the the cabinets with the exception of the woofers. I must have rewired these things ten times.
Insulting me is neither going to prove a point nor does it make you look very credible. I am not the one here with the wounded pride. If I was not interested in the assistance of others in getting these things 'fixed' I would not have wasted my time even posting it.
Get over it, its just a pair of speakers.
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Too bad you won't accept advice.
With the exception of purchasing an external EQ, I think I addressed everything covered in this thread. Unless you want to tell me that the cabinets are flawed.
I'm sorry I am not happy with the speakers. Life goes on; you'll get over it in time. Keep your head up.... ok?
What is your address? Maybe I can send you some flowers and a nice sappy card to make you feel better.
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JTA---Many of the Klipschorn fans here don't like the sound of the midrange and go to considerable effort to improve (to their tastes) the sound using other drivers and horns, tweeters, crossovers---you name it. It's become a small cottage industry here. So don't feel that you're out of bounds.
Tastes vary.
Well I am glad I am not alone on this then. I honestly, am not looking to modify them. I'm sure they can be upgraded with better horns and drivers, but I'd rather not start hacking these up. It is a shame, because they sure are impressive to look at.
Ah well, I guess these are going back. I think any future purchases I make will need to be auditioned in my room first. That is the only way to make sure they will be right for me.
Thanks again to those of you who offered constructive help. Even though I did not come to a favorable resolution on these, I am glad I had a place like this to go and ask.
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I'd say you missed one thing (If you have not alreadt tried this). I believe that you stated that you bought the Mac gear along with the K Horns. Try using the gear that you previously used with the Cornwalls. Also try the cornwalls with the Mac gear.
Chris
The Mac gear I've had for a few months. I was running the Cornwalls on them until I got the Khorns in last night.
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Ok...
I tried different cables on everything, interconnects, speaker cable, I even switched over to RCAs. All of that made it sound worse. So it is not the cable.
I swapped out the tweeters, no change.
I swapped out the midrange drivers. Very subtle improvement.
I tried a new network in one of the speakers. No change.
When I pushed the speakers back into the wall I really jammed them in there. That seemed to make an improvement in bass. I still like the Cornwalls better though. I think that may just be preference, not bass output.
I took every pillow and small cushion in the house, along with quite a few blankets and have arranged them in the room in spots I felt would offer some resonance. Some slight improvement, but nothing major.
The problem area is definately the midrange. It has a very blarring, in your face sound, that on most vocals is very ringy. The sound is very fatiguing.
Is there anything I missed? -
I am going to replace the networks later and even the drivers if need be. We will see what happens and I will certainly report back. Thank you to those who gave helpful suggestions. I think some people in here need to realize that what might sound good and be acceptable to them, may not to others. Sound like anything else in life is a matter of taste. Truth be told, I only got these because I did not want to shell out big money on speakers until I build my real music/theater room. As much as I admire Klipsch and its nostalgia, I never intended to have their speakers in my dream system. They are a good value, but far from what I ultimately want. I have a lot of seat time with speakers like Wilson, B&W, McIntosh and a variety of others. Perhaps that has made me a bit spoiled, but it certainly has illustrated to me my definition of ideal sound.
I certainly hope no one takes offense to what I am saying, though I feel like I am already beginning to be chastised because I do not hold this entire speaker brand in as high of a regard as some of you do. Certainly, you should not be offened, because after all, it is just a pair of speakers. I have a lot of repect for this forum and the people that post on it because it seems like a very tight group of audio enthusiasts. I have not seen this with any other audio brand, and that certainly says something.
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Folded horn bass is not going to have the presence like the bass of a Cornwall, it is totally different and will take some getting used to. It is there, it is cleaner, and it is accurate!
So I have disovered. That is not a deal breaker for me. I can always add a sub.
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I think you are perceiving it as too bright because you do not have the bass bins working, for whatever reason, to balance out the sound. I don't think I've ever heard anyone before describe Khorns as too bright with no bass. The likelihood is not that tens of thousands of people are wrong, but that your speakers are either not hooked up right or have blown woofers or something else with the net effect of having no bass.
The bass you are hearing is probably from the midrange horn.
Dude, with all due respect the bass bins are working fine. I can hear the bass coming out of them and when I really crank it up, the furniture sitting on the floor above it starts shaking. Infact, I can hear the bass 2 floors above it in the bedroom. A 400 hz horn is not going to do that. They work, they just don't hit like the Cornwalls do and neither one of them hit like the Epics do.
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Perhaps both woofers are blown.
They definately have bass, just not the punch that the Cornwalls do. They do not seem to flutter like a blown woofer would. I guess anything is possible. The bigger issue here is the harsh high frequency sounds the tweeter is emitting.
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Seems like to me the bass bins are still not connected.
That is most definately not the case.
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Let me ask the very, very obvious question (before folks get into suggestions about esoteric audio cable ....)
You mentioned that the cabinets were demo models at the stereo store. What did they sound like at the store (assuming they were reasonably set up in a corner)?
Was the bass lacking and the highs overly bright? If not, then the path heads toward setup, location and room treatment (although were they being run with very different electronics at the store?). If the sound was similar, then this is now an issue of trying to muck with electronics and room treatment to change the sound.
I have older K-Horns (and also Conrnwalls). In my opinion (and this is certainly painting with a broad brush), the K-Horns sould sound more similar to the Cornwalls you are already familiar with. The highs should be approximately similar and the bass (with some caveats) should also be similar
Good luck,
-Tom
They were run on these very same amps, but not setup properly at all. They were not even in corners and sitting infront of them was a 15' long solid granite table. I attributed that to the fact that they sounded the way they did.
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Cable makes a difference, but not THAT big of a difference. I use Kimber 8TC -- it's not a problem.
You'll get a lot of different advice on equalizers, but your situation warrants one. I use the new Behringer. You have a lot of money invested in that set up, and since it's going to be doing a lot of HT, I don't think you can do better than what you have. The other option is to embrace lunacy and do what I did: Replace the K-401 horn with Al's Trachorn, the K-77 tweeter with the Beyma CP-25, and change networks. You could go for broke and drop in a pair of Al's Extreme Slope Networks -- about $2500 total for the whole deal -- but at least you'd be happy and done with it!
I would rather not modify these only to discover I still am not happy with them and then not be able to return them. I am going to try messing around with the cable, though I do agree, I do not think it will make a noticable difference and perhaps swap in my other set of AK4s. If not though I think I am going to consider something else. Who knows, maybe there is something weird about the room that I do not know about. If anything I'd like to try another speaker for comparisons sake.
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JTA,
I power my Khorns with a McIntosh MC352 and the sound is not bright Would like to suggest it could be your cables. Here are a couple of things to try in order to narrow it down.
1. Swap S/E cables instead of BAL to see if any change.
2. Swap out speaker cables to see if any change.
3. Try a PS Audio Ultimate Outlet or UPC-200-plug in the 861 & the MS 300 to isolate the digital.
My system is extremely musical with no brightness, yours should sound even better. I firmly believe it is not caused by the speakers or components. If I can answer any questions please email me.
Man, I hope it is not the cable. This Kimber stuff was quite an investment. I have some straight copper Monster Cable non-XLR stuff that I will try later.
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I just got your email Josh. I know what's going on now. Listen, you have an equalizer, and I would encourage you to use it. If it's a good quality unit, it will in no way diminish the quality of the sound by having it in the signal path. Play within the vicinity of the following areas: 3kHz, 5kHz, and 9kHz. Trust me, something in one of those three areas is aggravating your hearing -- find out which one it is.
Your CF-4s -- point them straight foward, get a bit off axis from them.
Unfortunately, the EQ in this particular Mac is rather limited. I can bring the high end down to the point where it becomes more acceptable, but then the sound begins to sound muffled and less detailed; similar to what happened when placing fabric over the tweeter horn. Maybe I should look at another EQ if I decide to keep these.
I will play with the CF-4s a bit more. Right now they are toed as they are aimed a point roughly 2-3' on either side of the listening position.
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rplace,
Its actually a lot bigger in person. The wide angle lens I used makes it look smaller. I personally prefer the look of plasma better than projection, but the primary reason is because I will likely be moving within a year and did not really see the sense of mounting a projector and screen and ideally painting the front wall black. When I build my next home theater room it will likely have a Runco pointing a very large screen.
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The perfect room for AK-4 Klipschorns and SS -- it should sound incredible. I would take Larry's advice -- don't assume anything -- something is not right. Did you check the speaker wires connected to the amps? It only takes one pair to be flipped to net a horrible sound.
Dean, I checked every possible scenario. I would not have even posted this if I felt I left something out. My only other option is I have a brand new pair of AK-4 crossovers and drivers that I was going to use for my D Khorns. I could put them in and see.
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Everything is setup correctly; wires in phase, all drivers connected, bins sealed to the corners. These speakers have at least 25 hrs on them. I did the clap test, lol, and with the exception to the entrance area to the room there is no real echo. The room could perhaps benefit from perhaps a little more dampening, but regardless, the speakers should not be this bright. For the record, I do find the Cornwalls to be bright at times, but not to this degree, whether that is a factor that the horns are vertically mounted and they are closer to the floor than the horns of the Khorns I do not know. I really have no intention of trying other equipment, as I would not even give it a second thought getting rid of these speakers before I would give up my Mac gear, honestly.
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What I'm curious about is what type of xover these use and additionally what program material, there are a lot of recordings out there that are, sadly, very 'hot' sounding on a very dynamic speaker such as the big horns. Unfortunately, I'm not acquainted with the sonics of the Mac gear you are using but I'm sure its fairly 'neutral'. I'm sure others here have opinions/suggestions for you......With the mahogany they must be aesthetically gorgeous!
RJP
The crossovers are the new AK-4s which apparently are ideal for solid state amplification. The program material ranges from Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon to Rush to various Telarc titles including soundtracks and Overature 1812. I also threw in some more modern stuff like Radiohead, Godsmack and Trust Company which frankly sounded like finger nails on a chalk board with these speakers. I probably played about 15 seperate CDs on these speakers covering a pretty broad range of music and then a bunch of titles off of my MS300 music server. Needless to say, I tried just about everything on them. The McIntosh stuff is extremely neutral and accurate with tremendous power for the low end. I stayed away from Krell because they tend to favor a bit on the bright side. They do look wonderful in the mahogany finish.
For sale: KLF C7's and KSP S6's
in Home Theater
Posted
On Audiogon.