Jeff Matthews

yer not gonna hate me, Jeff ... when i buy some of MD's ..P-Cat's ...are ya ..??? Duke, whatever floats your boat. I bet jazz brunch sounds good w/tubes. []

LIke I said earlier, JPM (you left us for awhile), I'd bet only half of Klipsch Heritage owners know what their speakers will do. I'd lay money on that. Wonder which half argues against power?

Considering my D75 really sucks, should this give me a clue as of why there were so many lousy recordings since the 70ies? i guess your Forgetting that PWK ... used Crown ...??? Bwaaaahahahaha ...!!!! That's why these Klipsch speakers sound so bad. They were designed when PWK was under the influence of crappy amps. [] LOL.

Very nice, Mr. Spinner! You da man!

http://www.crownaudio.com/gen_htm/press/pr68.htm http://www.crownaudio.com/gen_htm/press/pr81.htm http://www.crownaudio.com/gen_htm/press/pr83.htm (On this one, you gotta read close. Crown amps, too) http://www.crownaudio.com/gen_htm/press/pr91.htm http://www.crownaudio.com/gen_htm/press/pr98.htm http://www.crownaudio.com/gen_htm/press/pr100.htm http://www.crownaudio.com/gen_htm/press/pr107.htm http://www.crownaudio.com/gen_htm/press/pr109.htm http://www.crownaudio.com/gen_htm/press/pr124.htm Yeah, yeah, yeah, but look at all those amps they're stacking. That's a whole different ballgame, right? ..... But is anybody who is THAT serious in the game stacking McIntosh? ...... Marantz? Denon? HK?

I'll throw this in, too. Do a Google on Crown. Peruse the list awhile, and you'll see they use these for music halls and concert venues. Never seen them use Marantz, McIntosh, Denon and bla, bla, bla....

Considering my D75 really sucks, should this give me a clue as of why there were so many lousy recordings since the 70ies? Well, if you want that lousy recording to sound right and unaltered, guess you need to use the same lousy equipment to get it back out. []

Duke, does Crown make a pre-amp to match either the micro/macro tech series or the K series?

Mr. Duke. That K-2 sure is pretty. Do they make a matching pre-amp? That'd be cool! Not that I'd go spend the bucks on a set-up, but if I could land a used one cheap, I could move my existing Crown down to my Corns hooked up to downstairs HT/stereo.

Man, I don't know. I think a poll of people on here would show just about everyone rarely fiddles with EQ or tone controls - it being preferred to just play flat. I've never encountered any of these issues - regardless of set-up or room configurations. Small rooms (10x11) still sounded great. Now, I'm in a 15x20. Still sounds great. You've got me baffled. I think you could try an EQ if you're inclined to toy with individual frequencies, although that has not been my inclination for 20 years. Apparently, though, your amp puts out sounds on both extremes of your liking. So, a middle ground might be an EQ, which surprises me. Describe some more. Turn it at 1/3 volume (moderate). What are your observations on both settings? Turn it loud - but not cranked like crazy. What are your observations on both settings? Is there any difference in quality as volume increases?

Please detail what you want to do. I don't think you adequately described what you think is lacking.

If you have tone controls, you have a built-in EQ. But go get your EQ so you can start a new thread about what it does and will not do. Best wishes.

So does that mean while the bass is pounding your chest your ears are bleeding?[] Exactly!!! If the ears don't bleed, then there is no need!!!

Allan, are you baiting with a bunch of negatives - just looking for excitement? Or do you have a positive recommendation? EQ = virtually flat improvement with focus on limited bandwiths. Crossovers = re-tuning speakers - not too far from EQ. Change room = build a new house. Tubes = oh so nice jazz brunch. These folks have been saying they want power. They rock the house down - only they want to rock the house down and have it sound even better. This, amigo, is where headroom comes in. Doesn't have to be Crown. God forbid it gets any shriller. [] But power is needed from some source.

Funny, seeing as 2-channel hi-fi reproduction attempts to re-produce. Re-produce what? I wonder...... Could it be........ the music that was made through those pro-amps?

3-D, your point is well-taken if your comments are to be taken that the Crown is an entirely different animal than the HK. That's what is hard to convey. Somebody hears their 65watt HK sounding so loud and clear, wonders what they are missing, can't equate to the power of Crown because they are already playing so loud, so can't imagine what is different/better about the Crown. Them's would be dynamics. BTW, 3-D. If you've been following meagain's thread, it is obvious they love LOUD. So, we are talking more than 80dB. That's where Crown comes in and shines. It's not a pro-amp for nothing.

I don't believe this Jeff. It's a vast assumption you're making. I'm not losing notes when we crank this 65wpc (80-85 peak). It's just not happening. We have decent ears here. Hubby's a muscian and not just one that does it 'by ear'. He can tell you exactly what notes are being played at any given section of a song. We are NOT hearing any drop off anywhere when cranked. We are not losing dynamics either. You're not losing notes. You're losing the relative volume. Did you draw that graph? If so, you would see that as you crank it up, each note is supposed to go proportionately louder. So with the 65 watt horizontal line drawn across the graph, as you go louder, more of the notes are trying to converge at the 65 watt limit. This is a relative volume of each note issue and not losing notes or tones. You are playing it so loud, you don't notice the drop in dynamics - because it is so loud. What you are missing is that with more power, it would not "sound" as "loud." It would come out much more smoothly, and with less effort. It would be louder - just not as "rattling" loud. And..... none of this made sense to you because you have great ears, you love music and it just sounds so good. Wait and see, and then, I can say "I told you so."

Meagain, after all the debate and disagreement, here is what I think is most informative - my opinion! LOL. No, really. Here's what I think are the most valuable points: (1) mdeneen and I finally agree - actually, I think we always did and got to a common denominator. Your 65 watt HK will lose dynamics like mdeneen and I said - BUT it will only lose dynamics as you crank the volume past a certain level. Otherwise, no problem. The way you describe you like to crank it, you were already there in terms of losing dynamics. Mdeneen and I also agree that if REALLY LOUD is desired, you must have the power in order to MAINTAIN the same dynamics. Thank you, mdeneen, for clearing up what you meant - you're right on, amigo! (2) Duke says he'd take his K-2 over his tubes hands down. I don't know if you caught that. And if you look at his equipment list (plus, I'd venture to guess the piles and piles of stuff he's gone through before), I'd venture to say he's qualified in his opinion.

Md, you're exactly on the money with this last observation of yours. Maybe we were syaing the same thing. You have to turn the 60 watt amp down to get to the same dynamics. So, there's a point when you are turning it too high and getting more volume in some aspects of the song without proportional increases in the other parts. A more powerful amp would allow you to go beyond and still maintain the dynamics. My point was that the Khorns will do ALOT more with great dynamics than a 60 watt amp will give them.

Your getting deeper and deeper. Time to stop digging . . . I'm a big boy. Tell me where I'm too deep in it. And why does Duke choose his Crown K-2 hands down over his own tubes?

No, it would be chopped off anywhere the output was "looking for" over 60 watts. You can achieve the identical set of dynamics if everything is proportionately turned down AND you had no peaks above 60 watts. So, anything above 60 watts is lost. Makes a huge difference when the original dynamics was "looking to" push 200 watts. So with less power, all your peaks merge much more quickly at the lower ceiling. That's why you can't make out the details as well at higher volumes, and you get greater dynamics/separation when you turn it down. Many would equate that with distortion, but it's not. If you add more power, you raise the ceiling, which makes a huge difference in dynamics, especially in very dynamic songs.

Nonsense Allan's favorite song???? "No Reply at All" by Phil Collins.

Corns: $500 - $800 Heresies: $300 - $500 KHorns: $1500 - 2500

And to follow up, when you throw so many of your notes at the ceiling, it starts to sound belabored - and you confuse that with distortion. It's not distortion - you just lose dynamics. There's no more spread in the notes - and it all seems to be rocking pretty evenly hard. That's the problem, it should not be evenly hard. It should be dynamic.

No Mdeneen. You have me wrong. It's REALLY LOUD plus REALLY DYNAMIC. Don't know if you saw my example with the numbers a few pages back, but when you cap-off or limit your power, you lose dynamics when you turn it up. Look at these relative sets of numbers in terms of a series of notes at various power levels (which is dynamics) Set A: 5, 10, 40, 150, 130, 200, 60, 80, 200, 300, 40, 30, 40, 40. That's what you'll hear if your amp does 300 watts. If your amp does 60 watts, here's what you'll hear: Set B: 5, 10, 40, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 40, 30, 40, 40. So, with the limited power, your throwing all your notes against the ceiling and losing all the dynamics.