meagain

Maxg - "If you play Khorns out in the open so to speak then you tend to drop out the mid-bass to lower mid-range frequencies quite a bit (from memory 250 to 400 Hz)." They are 'almost' touching the walls. Maybe no more than 1/2" away. I don't know why hubby did that but he did. Tonight we are moving them and adding pipe insulation to the rear vertical board edges to seal against wall. I was of the impression 'sealing' against the wall affects ONLY the bass. The woofer. Am I wrong? Maxg, I'm confused about what you're saying here re: 'drop out the mid-bass to lower mid-range'. I'm perfectly fine with the bass, Love it! It's the mid-range area I'm personally having a problem with (I think). I think the tweeter is fine? Would sealing affect the mid-range (Squawker?)? I didn't think it did that. If so, then yes, I'll reserve judgement. Rplace - You're speaking in terms I can understand. "Warm, lush" - I can relate to. Now - is THIS what tubes will bring to the table? Warmth? If tubes would give some 'warmth' without altering the recording by 'coloring' it - then this sounds like a good thing. I think I need to somehow listen to a proper setup as I'm skeptical of the improvements I'll see with tubes over my $600-650 receiver. About the crossovers, Thanks for explaining the hierirarchy of what's out there. Now, If I could glean what this would mean for my ears - that would help. I'll go look for threads on people who've upgraded to try to understand the difference I'd realize. You know - I have better luck on google then here. Am I understanding there was an old Klipsch forum that can only be accessed via google or something?

I thought the JBL 4430 was relatively inexpensive. I was eyeing them on Ebay just cuz they looked so cool. Yes Duke - I'd love to hear how exactly they compare to the khorns (as well as the other 2 in the 'rotating circuit'). Tiger - I'm trying to be patient but various things drive me nuts on occasion. Like some things are too upfront & over when I feel they should be more subdued and not the focus. About the tube thing, hubby & discussed this last night and I basically said "everyone" says to get tubes. That they make a big difference. And I've sent him various blurbs of those comments. We are willing to try this somewhere in the system. Unfortunately, we are beyond clueless this tube stuff. None of these names/brands are familiar and IDK about hubby, but the only thing I know about them is they have tubes sticking out. Seriously. That's basically it. I wouldn't even know where to begin to scout these out or what I should look for. Not to mention how to tie them in with everything port-wise, etc. If anyone knows of a website primmer, I'll be up for reading it. Not sure I'm willing to go balls to the walls with the $5k dealie above, but willing to put tubes somewhere. As far as getting new crossovers, I'm up for it but have yet to find any post or thread/site that actually explains what the differences between all the options would be to my ears. I'm afraid to make things worse - like, what if they make something more upfront that I think is ALREADY upfront, etc. I just have yet to learn what I'll realize from them and till I learn - can't make that leap of faith. Tiger - Where are theses VRDs & ALKs for sale so I can go looksee. I have AA's (1981 khorns)

OK - Don't scare me like that! Those JBL's are pretty cool looking though. Duke - I'm suprised you didn't change the crossovers yet as you seem to be heavily 'into' all this stuff. I'm curious as to what you use for your main listening speakers?

Duke - Are you saying those JBL's were better than the khorns? And did the new crossovers in the khorns resolve the issue for you? I want that detail back in.

First off, I appreciate all your help. Thank you! (I'm leaning towards the Watco oil and will play around with that & BLO on a piece of oak I have.) I've a question.... Hubby mentioned a few things 'missing' in music he knows well. I queried him this am about this and he cited a Miles Davis tune 'Amandela(sp)' . Specifically he said that behind the trumpet is a sax and bass clarinet part. He said the notes were indistinguishable and they should be. He couldn't discern them properly. He is more familiar with that album than I and plays sax and clarinet, etc. so I'm trusting his ears on this one. I'm not sure where the midrange horn (squawker?) stops and the tweeter kicks in, but I think the sax & bass clarinet would be the midrange? Not really sure how to test these things out properly. I'll be doing some listening today. Going to stick my ear next to the 2 horns to see if anything is amiss. Tonight I'll have him pull the khorns out & check all wires/screws and will then seal them into the wall with pipe insulation. He mentioned some pc program to test sounds & using one of his mics but not sure what exactly he was referring to. Edit: There's something "hall-like" about them that I don't care for. I wouldn't say echo-y exactly, but hall-like and not warm. Maybe my room. The downloadable manual doesn't seem to have room dimension info, etc. IDK why there's so little information about these to be had. Guess I'll have to call Klipsch as I'm also trying to find a schematic of what the crossover parts are called.

Hi. We're getting more & more music done in 5:1. Also concert DVDs. We just scored on a pair of Klipschorns and are wanting to learn what speakers would complement them in a 5:1 system. What we currently have is 'ruining' the great sound of the Khorns. I have my old KG4's I could try if that's appropriate. Besides 5:1 music, we also want them for home theatre. Can anyone advise me as to what Klipsch models are a possibility here? Ones that won't detract from the khorns? Thanks much!

Tuit - What color Watco would you recommend? http://www.constantines.com/ProductImages/Finishing/watco.jpg If I wanted to warm them up - not 'red' like red mahogony, or red cherry - just so they aren't poop brown.... I wonder if using the cherry or fruitwood would help assuming I can't or don't want to lighten them via sanding or bleach. I suppose I could mix some cherry with natural or something. Wish I had an identical piece of walnut to play with. Sanding scares me as I know if it's not perfectly done - I can get blotches. If I went this route, what grit would be recommended for a very light skim coat sand?

Thanks guys. Jmon - I'm going to print your post for hubby. Let me understand - did you use BLO or the Watco on your khorns? What I'm concerned about is darkening them further. They are pretty dark! I'm wondering if straight Turp or Mineral spirits would pull some of the old stain out for me? IDK if I'm seeing stain or the natural color of the wood. Not sure I can lighten them first. Also seller said he put some mineral oil on it at some point which I think isn't best. I wish there was a pic gallery here to see everyone's speakers with what they've done to them. I'm not finding alot of pictures. Jmon - would love to see yours!

Jeff - I'm in cat. 2 also. We are loving them (but want to learn about crossovers). I can't believe I worried so much about the bass on these & I don't understand how anyone could fault them that way. Bass is SOOOO deep and IMO - punchy. I'M IN BASS HEAVEN! As far as highs, Hubby put in an XTC song he's listened to hundreds of times and said there were things there that he's NEVER heard before thru various systems. Listened to Soundgarden's 'Spoonman' - huh? They had this spoon sound in there? Who knew. We played a zillion things from Nine Inch Nails to Sinatra and we are digging it big time. He did say that he was MISSING a few details with the high end on some stuff which surprised me. He went so far as to say the bass was 'too too' but conceded that he's not used to good bass. He never likes to tweak bass/treble for some reason. For me, this is the first set of speakers I've played with that didn't find me upping the bass on the receiver. Here's how I have it set up for now. 3/4"? MDF wedged against that bottom ledge of the fireplace wall & the speaker. MDF extends 16.25" past the rear edge of the side grill. We have another piece on hand that would extend this another 24". You can see the wall is textured and the light part is a curtain over a large window area. The window area under the curtains is sadly covered with plastic (ancient windows & it's like 10 deg here). The other side is about the same thing. Window edge is about 1' from the speaker. This speaker has a nice wall. I've zero clue what the window plastic or curtains do. I think our listening angle is also messed up as it sounds more balanced when we walk back in the room. (Can't move the sofa back). This is all a temporary situation, but we have to make do for about a year at least. The MDF thing is on the edge for me in the looks department. Edit: Larry C. They are KBWO. I'll try to figure out what these 'caps' are and see how much they cost. Thanks for clarification on the 'tailboard'. They are now away from the wall. I'll have hubby shove them as close as possible and try the pipe insulation thing. I actually have those! This pic more accurately shows the tone of the wood.

My crossovers say AA on them. They are 1981 and I think I read that that year didn't have the alnico magnets? If I can figure out what they are, I'll check. Not sure what 'caps' are either. Does anyone know where I can download a parts list or schematic of these things? Or has anyone written a book called "khorns for dummies"? About the Receiver - We heard no distortion, clipping, etc. when cranked. When we talked about the amp issue last night hubby basically said the same thing as PrestonTom & Cal Blacksmith. I think I understand it now. I think I'm OK with this receiver for a bit. It's around $650 and how bad can it be for that price range? Specs: http://www.harmankardon.com/specifications.aspx?Region=USA&Country=US&Language=ENG&cat=REC&ser=∏=AVR%20435&sType=C Tom Blasing: OMG! I looked at the McIntosh stuff and they are about the prettiest things I've ever seen! I'd want one even if it wasn't hooked up! But they appear pretty spendy. Rictate - "The crossovers can be upgraded easy you can get new oil caps from BEC and maybe change the woofer inductor,take out the diodes if there are any and then do A-B with the old crossover." You are borderline speaking in tongues to me. Are you saying I can change these oil caps & diodes as a first tweak before going hog wild on the crossover deal - and they might improve things? And can anyone point me in the direction of a photo or something with labels? All I know about them is that when looking at the electronics/wires - they look brand new. Not a spec of dust, corrosion, etc. Either someone spent days cleaning everything or these were kept meticulously. Even the groove in the cord that runs from the top section to the bottom is pristine. The seller bought them 1.5 years ago from his banker who was the wife of the owner in his 60's so he had to be in his 40's when purchased. Seller said they were in a climate controlled room. I didn't know there was a screen on the back of the bottom part. Is that to keep out bugs? About the finish: They 'are' pretty and if you ask me, I'd call them mint. I think I got really lucky. I'd say the wood color in the pics make it look more 'warm' then they really are. I'll try to snap a daylight pic which will show them more accurately. I'd like to tweak the tone on them to be more like the above pics. No hurry though. It'll take a goodly amount of research on my part. I'm wondering if Walnut darkens over time like Cherry does. bhendrix on page 1 recommended Watco to tone them but I question whether 'adding' a tone would also darken & wonder if I should lighten them a bit first? The wood does seem a bit physically dry to me and I think they need something but I'm hesitant to add oil right now till I better nail down how I'll treat them in the coming month or so. The wood seems lifeless and minimally, if I can't lighten them without bleaching/redoing (big project), I'd want to bring this grain out & add dimension as they are so 'flat'. I wouldn't mind a bit of a luster/soft sheen - like a 'satin' type sheen - a whisper. I'm wondering if I could use a paste wax where I have control - adding layers and get a soft sheen via hand buffing? bhendrix (or anyone) - what color Watco should be used here? About placemnt (my first order of business).... Rictate said "Make sure you seal the tailboard and the horz. part of the bass binn to the corner." What do you mean by tailboard? I just looked at them and see that hubby has everything about 1" from the walls. He didn't flush them up - prolly cuz we're still playing around. I know they should be touching the walls, and they 'use' the walls. If so, would some sort of gasket be contraindicated & defeat the purpose? I'm going to look into the false wall/corners thing. I think Tigerwood has a thread somewhere. I'm not crazy about the search engine here, I tend to fall short. And I think I need to get a manual.

Jeff - Did you upgrade the crossovers in yours? And if so, did you notice a significant or at least 'worth the money' difference? And what year are they? I think the volume I can go to is fine for this room but maybe not enough in the future.

Jeff - The volumne knob does spin endlessly. But the screen number stops at some point. It goes from -80db to +10db. I had an XTC album in there and went to -6db, put in something more mellow & went to 0db. They still sounded great to me. I'll have to keep testing this out. I was only looking for gross distortion and how physically loud I can go with them. I'm afraid to go to 100%. It was quite loud. I can't much envision needing to go louder than that (between 0 to +10db). I think it might just start to hurt at some point (in short order). I'm sitting pretty close to these things and they are only about 12' apart. [:$] So since the volume goes up enough for my liking - I should be OK - right? Whoa - I heard a tad of a rumble at zero from the left area - though it might have been a few CD's sitting on my old speakers.

I can't listen to 5:1 stuff anymore. The extra speakers we have make it sound bad which is unfortunate. I'll need to get more speakers that will complement these. I think I also need a new CD/DVD player. I have a $100 (or less) 2-3 year old Toshiba. Jeff - I'll play with it now. Yes, it has a giant volume knob (cool blue light inside - I love blue lights!) I've been enjoying walking around the house getting my feet massaged. Yes - the floor is shaking! The bass drum sounds like it's real - in my house. Happy dance. []

I had another quick question besides the one I asked Duke above.... The seller had monster cable on them with a good chunk of wires peeled back because it wouldn't fit. We had the same cable, but hubby instead - switched the cable and used what appears to be a lamp cord looking thing to make it fit. It looks so thin & wimpy to me. Can someone advise what's best here for proper speaker wireing? At least temporarily? And - would I be able to use big cable on these new crossover offerings floating about? Or - does it matter that much?

Jeff - Hubby pulled his Steely Dan last night but we didn't get to it. I can't even imagine how good it will sound. I cranked it loud enough to where my left ear was buzzing so I had to cock my head a bit to make it stop. Hubby said it got to 'damage ears' level. Some things I can go higher with than others. But to our ears, we heard no change in the quality fully cranked. Wow is that nice! We're still learning this receiver. Just got it a couple weeks ago. When I turn up/down the volume on the remote, I see a db level on the screens. Is that what you want me to measure? I have to recheck the false wall issue. We have a larger slab of 1"? MDF we could switch it out with. Then again, I don't think MDF is the right thing to use either? We just had it on hand. The general area of the house we want sound/video is bad. There are 2 rooms separated by that fireplace wall & we want to knock it down & create one big room. When we do this, it will be 28' wide. So either someday, we put them on the 28' wide wall, or go to the side which would be anything we want it to be. If we keep the khorns (which is lookin' like a no-brainer), we would design the space perfectly for them. Duke - Do you mean that by running a 500wpc amp over a 100wpc, that even at lower, non-cranked volumes - it tightened the bass? Or would that be just for very high volumes? I don't really understand the technical aspects of this. EDIT: Tiger, I guess I thought the opposite. I thought that these require very little power and one didn't want too much. It's sounding like I have things a**-backwards? I want to try to understand this as our HK AVR-435 is so new that I 'might' be able to return it without a restocking fee? Should I have gotten a beefier version?

Jeff - Thanks. I wanted to post my impressions last night but couldn't get on. It really freeked us out how much better it sounded with the HK receiver. Like a whole different speaker! I know my KG4's sounded better with it than the old Yamaha I had. We cranked it last night and it was wonderful. I didn't get tears in my eyes, but question if I would have if I wasn't 'studying' things so much. Sounds were so clear & crisp. I've read posts with people saying they 'envelops/fills the room' 'makes you feel like you're there', etc. and I see that. I get it. I'm seeing a big difference in recordings. Some parts like a snare drum were too in my face - over other stuff - and I almost felt like I wanted to have control over it. I found by moving back in the room & standing there, made much difference. Hence I think we don't have them positioned optimally. We also are missing one wall. It shows in the pic. It's a fireplace wall with protruding ledges. We had a piece of 3/4" or 1" MDF and shoved it in there. It's as tall as the bottom part, but only extends perhaps 1 foot beyond the speaker side. I'm really curious what new crossovers will do and if we'll hear a real difference. Mine say AA and look really nice & clean. I also have no clue which one to buy if I go that route. But right now, we are loving them!

Tom - Yep, we removed it. Neil - Yes, you were 100% correct. It was an optical illusion. Hubby thought so also and sure enough, I was wrong. They look really nice. Everything's really clean in & out.

He hooked the khorns to the sonic t amp & the KG4s to the new harman. KG4's sounded richer/fuller/warmer/bassier. Heard more 'stuff' from the khorns, but somethings almost were harsh. Vocals "S" & "T"'s were almost like knives in my ears. Was getting a bit sad, till he put the khorns on the Harman. MUCH better. The bass came back & we both felt it sounded more comfortable. He's now hooking it up to do a proper a/b situation. I know it's silly to do this given they are so far apart on the foodchain, but why not eh? They do sound much better through the Harman. Also, the harsh S's & T's from voice went away as we walked back in the room. I now need to listen to something bombastic. I've no trouble with the depth of the bass, I now need to feel if it's punchy enough for me. I'd like to KNOW I'm going to like them before putting money into them. They are imposing, dark & large and won't exactly be in the basement, so I'm giving up alot to have them here - so they need to amaze me. Right now it occurred to me that I can place speakers in FRONT of the Khorns. I like the idea (if needed). There's a thread here called 'subwoofer with khorns' or such and I need to read it. I still want to hear Cornwalls. Jeff, I'll crank it. Been a bit afraid cuz I'm not clear on this amp issue and didn't want to hurt anything. Hubby said the receiver can be too much power for these? IDK EDIT: Here's a pic. Overexposed. New camera. The color is more mud/poop than this. Actually, if I can attain more the warm/color shown here, that would be nice. I also think I'd want to give these a slight sheen though I tend towards more natural finishes. But for this, I think I'd prefer some semblance of shine. They are clearly Oil. Side grills aren't on yet, but they are pristine. I'll probably take another pic tomorrow, the flash on my cam is far too strong (you can see through the grill!) and I don't yet know how to use my extra flash. Thanks for your well wishes everyone! And your help. Am I real yet? I was actually going to have me in the photos with the speakers, but by the time we finally got home & wrestled these into the house, I wasn't exactly in the mood to have my pic taken.

Christmas present I guess. We just got home a little bit ago. Got them in the house without too much trouble till I lost my side and it took a tad of a thump on the floor. I think it will be OK - Wow are these tanks or what? They are imposing in the room. Interesting day. Interesting fellow we bought them from. He's a producer/engineer. Beautiful recording rooms, gear, etc. It was interesting for hubby being a musician, etc. Cool guy. He bought the Khorns from an elderly gentleman about 1.5 years ago who moved out west & his wife gave him a heads up. "I" feel they are in beautiful condition. He had them in a non-proper room hooked up to a cheap new receiver. They were well away from the corners AND the walls but we got a quick listen and yea - we liked. I'm not used to such clarity! That's how I would describe it on first glance - "clear". We don't have the idea setup for them, but we will. We have a new Harman Kardon avr-430 receiver and I know you won't approve. We also have this little Sonic Impact amp gadget. We'll be wanting to do right by these things and will be looking into the amp issue & the various upgrades available. My only gripe is the tone of the wood is a bit muddy to me. I expected that, but I'm probably going to want to tweak it. I'd like to lighten it a bit & warm it up. I think they could use a hint of red. They seem dull, flat, poop brown. Wood feels perhaps a tad dry? Seller said he put some mineral oil on it. I have a bit of experience with refinishing and I don't think that's the right thing? We're still in the market for more speakers. I'll post pics in a bit, Hubby is ready for our first listen. [] Fingers crossed. Oh - they are Serial numbers 18w628 & 29 Walnut.

Smilin - I PM'd you. Call me crazy, but I just secured a pair of Klipschorns. Done deal. We get them tomorrow morning. This is a big leap of faith here as I've never seen, let alone heard them. I'm going on the oodles of posts on this forum. I'm excited and scared at the same time. I didn't want them to slip away and figured I'd buy and think later. Thinking it might take a long while to find the right combo of price/condition/location. I got the pictures this morning and they look darned nice. Yes, I fear I won't like them somehow - or that I'll have to be 'retained'. And for stubborn me, that may take awhile. I think hubby's more educated ears will love it. I've spent my day reading. I fear I won't appreciate or like the bass and that "I'd" favor Cornwalls if side by side. Don't know. We listened to Porcupine Tree 'Deadwing' CD recorded in 5:1. They have a previous release of 5:1 that won some awards for it. It sounded awful. We had the KG4's as mains, a Rogers BBC little guy as a center, and DCM? sides. This told me - wait... Need more speakers. So - we're still in the market. I hope I don't regret this decision. I think it will be ok 'eventually'. I'm going to be patient. It will take me time & learning to get the room optimal for them as well as the darned "proper amp" deal, and of course the tweaks (crossover) issue. I'm going to try to be objective. 1981 Walnut and they look in beautiful shape. I hope to post pictures tomorrow. Will probably start a new thread if that's ok.

Because I'm working on something that presented to me this morning. And I either take a big leap of faith, or let it go. I am agreeing with the above poster that the flaw is an illusion. I did PM Chicago Pete & need to talk via email, but I need to make a decision right now. On faith. Act now, think later. Pete - I did get your response to the PM. I'm sorry I didn't respond today. Trying to figure this situation out. If anyone thinks I'm real and wants to hear what I'm up to, pm me. It would be nice to hear an "it's ok - do it".

[] Will PM you in a bit. []

I outlined the area in pink. Where the horn meets the hotel lobby bell looking part. Isn't there a chunk missing from the black piece? Exposing a bit of what looks like a pipe? No?

I'm eyeing something right now.... In this pic, there appears to be a clear indication of a piece broken off this horn. Yes? If so, can someone tell me what's involved price-wise to fix and if this is an easy thing to do?

Boom! Ding ding ding... We have a winner here! Jeff, in the real world - we'd like each other! Bingo!