Forte2me

Any way to 'repair' my original and restore original performance? The hole he punched out is probably only about 1/4 inch across, and the paper material is folded inside the cone, still attached on one folded edge. It almost looks like it could be brought forward and sealed with the right air tight material - I just don't know what that 'right material' is... Alternatively I have heared of having speakers 'reconed', but not sure if someone could do that in this case and still reuse the original paper folded surround or not. Anyone have any thoughts or experience with either? The tech at Klipsch also suggested I replace both passives so they match, but that made no sense to me since I love the deep bass of these speakers, and am not willing to go with something that doesn't perform as well.

Speaker is in the exact same location as before, as the indentation in the carpet proves. I hear lower bass from the other speaker when compared to this one with the replacement passive. These are the only Klipsch speakers I own outside of my center channel, so I say foam surround because that is what it resembles. I did not pull the cover off my center channel to compare, but I can do that tonight when I get home. If someone can post a picture of the "regular surround material Klipsch uses", I can tell you if it is the same or different than what is on this one. Or, if someone can school me on how to insert an image, I can stick one here of what I have.

Hi guys, I knew I was in trouble when I came into the family room and saw my 3 year old son behind one of my Forte ll's. He had pulled it away from the wall to find one of his cars that fell behind, and had punched a corner of the car through the 15" rear passive radiator while he was back there, folding back an opening in the cone about a quarter inch across. I ordered a replacement from Klipsch, but was surprised to notice a difference when I installed it. The surround on the original is not foam, it is paper folded 3 or 4 times at the edge, allowing for cone movement. The replacement came with a foam surround, and Klipsch says they are farmed out now for manufacture and that the older style is no longer available. I may be crazy, but I don't think I hear the same bass response out of the replacement. It seems to be stiffer, where the older style paper fold edge moves easier and I wonder if it therefore moves air with less effort. My other issue is that the gasket ring around the mounting holes sticks up about a quarter inch all around beyond the back of my speaker, whereas the original mounted flush. Not that I ever intend to sell these, but if I did I can see that because of the 2 issues someone would not believe it was a klipsch replacement and therefore it would probably hurt their value. To their credit Klipsch has offerred to refund my money if I return the speaker, but what I really want is the correct replacement. Anyone have any ideas? Should I instead be looking at trying to send out the old one for repair somewhere? Does anyone have a 15" passive with the folded edge surround they would be willing to sell?

I pulled the cover off the POA 2400 last night and cleaned the dust off everything. I realized my Denon 545r receiver from the bedroom also had pre-outs, so I brought it downstairs and hooked it up as a preamp with the POA 2400. Wow. Problem solved. It looks like the issue was in the pre-out section of my 435r, which doesn't matter since I moved it to the bedroom and as a receiver it is fine. The POA 2400 amp appears now to be in as good of shape sonically as it is visually. I spent 3 hours last night reviewing my CD collection - amazing clarity and detail throughout the whole range. Teams very well with my speakers to deliver a soundstage that is convincingly realistic. You close your eyes and it feels like someone is performing in the room with you - you realize the sound is coming from in front of you, but it was a neat experience to have the room fill with sound much more than I was used to. My wife and kids were upstairs asleep for the last hour so I couldn't get too carried away with the volume, but I am looking forward to pushing it a little more during daylight hours in the next few days. I think I am going to hook up my turntable tonight and listen to some old vinyl just for fun. My plan is to order the 3806 probably next week, and then plug this baby in behind it. I'll keep you posted. Thanks for all the input. That was a close call, I almost sent this amp back to the seller.

Dr. Who: I normally listen to the DRA 435 on its own with tone controls flat and loudness button in. Sounds great with my speakers. However, when I use it as a preamp for the POA 2400, the tone controls suddenly have no effect on the sound. No difference with loudness in or out, cannot boost or cut treble or bass. That's why I'm wondering if it is just the preamp part of the DRA 435 that is not allowing the 2400 to do it's work when they are hooked together, or if this 2400 is a bad amp. Checked my theorey by hooking up the Cd player directly, but still didn't hear a bass improvement. Also, I noticed when I was using the 435 as a preamp, it was putting out quite a bit of heat over the heat sink, even though the amp section of it wasn't being used since the 2400 was handling the amplification. I thought this was a little strange, but maybe this is normal, I don't know. On the other hand, I cannot heat the 2400 up, even after playing it loud for awhile. Don't get me wrong, with the 2400 in line the db's could very easily drive you out of the house, and I hear no distortion. I just don't hear the bass I know that I should with this amp and my speakers, like I said - in a side by side, the 55 watt DRA 435 wins. Speakers are connected correctly, already checked that. This 2400 is 200 watts/side, I should be shaking the walls at higher volume, shouldn't I?

I guess may main questions are these: 1) Is there a possibility the amp is fine, and I am missing the low end because I am using an older Denon DRA 435 receiver as a preamp through the pre-out jacks, and the tone controls via this setup appear to be ineffective? Obviously this would not happen with a regular high quality preamp. Or would this have little bearing on the low end of the amplifier and if it was in good shape I would hear the bass now? 2) If the amp was fine, shouldn't I hear the full range of sound including great low end when I hooked up my cd player direct to the amp, or is this also not giving me the full range of sound because I am not using a pre-amp? 3) Those of you that operate a Denon AVR receiver like the 3806 with an external amp for the mains, are your tone controls on the 3806 effective on the outboard amp? Sorry if this is elementary, I could really use your input as this is my first experience with a separate amp. I pulled the cover off the Denon 2400 amp and I don't see any evidence of blown circuits, all fuses are intact, just some accumulated dust. I don't want to sent this back if it is just that I am not using it correctly. All I know is that right now under these conditions I have more low end with the 55 watt receiver above than I do coming out of the POA 2400 when it is hooked up.

Hi guys. I received the Denon POA 2400 amp awhile back and have been hesitant to report my findings because I am not hearing what I thought I would. First of all, the amp arrived in pristine condition and looks brand new. It arrived in it's original box with the molded styro packing ends and manual. All lights and switches perform flawlessly. The owner said he had owned it for 15 years and I give him a perfect 10 for it's care. It was like Christmas morning. I hooked it up to my Denon DRA 435 receiver with pre-outs and gave it a test run on some audio CDs. There was more high end, there was more midrange, there seemed to be more 'soundstage' if you will across the room, more of a convincing feeling that someone was performing in front of you - well, almost. The bass was notably absent. I thought I would really be moving some air with the 12in / 15in combo of my Forte ll's, that I would be feeling it right in my gut. No dice. NOTE: the tone controls of my my 435 when used as a preamp had no effect on the sound coming out. I could not boost or cut anything. The loudness button also had no effect, so I could not boost the low end. I then hooked my CD player directly into the back of the amp, using the line levels in the front of the amp as volume controls. I liked the sound better, but still to my amazement the bass I expected to hear failed to show up, even on the tracks where I knew there was some great bass (Eagles' Hell Freezes Over - Hotel California after the beginning guitar). I tried both combos with some DVD movies and again found that my no-need-for-a-sub Forte ll's sounded like they definately needed a sub. Just to make sure I wasn't crazy, I hooked the DRA 435 back up on its own (NO Denon 2400 amp this time) and there was the bass I had been missing. Guys, my 435 has 55 watts/channel. The 435 is now running my system, the POA 2400 is back in the box. What gives? Reviews on this amp say that the bass management is awesome. Do you think I have a bad amp, or is it OK and I am just not hearing how it should sound because I don't have a good quality preamp in front of it? I have not yet purchased the AVR 3806, but when you use an outboard amp behind it for the mains, are the tone contols ineffective on the outboard amp? (I normally run tone controls top dead center, with the loudness button in. I just tried to boost the bass in this case and found I couldn't. I am a little frustrated here. Appreciate your comments.

Ok guys, I have thought this one through long enough and am ready to get off the fence and do something, which also just happens to reactivate this thread! Thanks to all of you who have offered good advice, and have been very patient with a less-than-audiofile who is trying to make the move to hear sound closer to how it was meant to be heard, realizing it is a moving target as the higher frequency retention of my own ear is going the opposite direction (any of you also cup your hands behind your ears when listening to HT so you can catch all the high end? Drives my wife and kids nuts). Yes, I am 43. I made a decision to buy an outboard amp to drive my Forte ll's with a Denon 3806. Yesterday I purchased a Denon POA 2400 amp (1988, dual monoblock, torodial, 200 watts x 2, Class A) on ebay for around $380.00 incl shipping. Now before you all go Anthem, Rotel, Adcom, Outlaw or B&K on me, you should know that there is a confidence factor with denon amps and my speakers, vs. unchartered waters on another brand with so many mixed comments on what sounds good with Heritage speakers and what doesn't. Plus, for the money I am into a pretty good amp which I think will make them sing. I haven't ordered the 3806 yet, I plan on playing with the 2400 behind another Denon I have with preouts for a few days first. I'll let you know how things sound. For now I get to play the waiting game until it arrives...

I am looking into Anthem MCA and PVA series amps and wondering if these are a good match for for my Forte ll's. Anyone have any experience with these on heritage speakers?

The burn in/ break in timeframe question came after Fish's recommendation to buy the amp, take it home and audition it, then return within the 30 days if unhappy with how it sounds with my speakers. Not having done this before, is 30 days enough time for the amp to adequately break in so you hear how it is really supposed to sound?

I plan to use the amp also in a HT setup so not sure how tubes would fit into that.

Anyone have any thoughts on this? Also curious on the burn-in question above when auditioning a new amp.

The fact that you can now purchase "previously owned" separates on ebay opens up a whole new world of affordability for guys like me who do not have the big budget set aside for the new stuff. But with the sensitivity of my speakers, I am concerned without having trialed the Anthem, Adcom, Rotel, Outlaw or others that they may not be a good combo. I know the Denon sound so that's easy for me. What I don't know is if any of these amps or others sound better with Heritage than Denon does.

Do you get the same imaging, dynamics and bass for the mains by using the 380X as a preamp with an outboard amp to power them, or do you need to go with a pro/pre plus the same outboard amp to hear better sound?

What about the 'burn in' time you read about with new amps - how long does it take before you hear the post burn sound quality you are really looking for? If I go that route, what respectable used pre/pro I should be looking for on ebay to run it with since I will be knocking on the door of the upper limits of my budget? And then I'm back to the original question - better to go this route for the money or do the Denon 3806 AVR and add a good outboard amp (Anthem, Rotel, Outlaw, Denon, Adcom, etc) later on for the mains?

How do I hear a Rotel or an Outlaw with my Klipsch? I doubt a dealer is going to let me take one home. J.4 knee and Bobby T, did I misread you? By saying go with 'outboard amps', do you mean go separates with pre/pro and amps or buy the 3806 and add an outboard amp for the mains? I thought you meant the latter but maybe I am wrong.

Ever had any experience with the older Denon amps, like the POA 2400a or the POA 2800, both rated at 200w/ch? Curious how they compare.

EAR, My budget for now is probably around $1200 - $1400. That throws out any possiblity of a high end separate system, though through ebay it seems like I can pick up some decent used separates for about the same money as the 3806. I love the Denon sound with my speakers, but having said that have not really had the opportunity to test them with other amps outside of my Onkyo Integra amp which to my ear wasn't as good as the Denon. I want the HT upgrade over what I currently have, but also want my Forte's to sing when I am in 2 channel audio. Sounds like your vote would be to go for the separates, am I right?

gbrlex, What was the difference you noticed with the Rotel over the Adcom 5500? I have heard that the recent Adcoms with the MOSFET design do not sound as good musically as the older ones. I have heard of Rotel, but have never heard a Rotel.

Thanks for the input. So 3 votes for the Denon AVR plus outboard amp, 1 for the separates. Anyone else want to jump in?

I am not an audiophile by any means, but I have been told that wire/cable statements of improved bass, or sonic clarity with one wire over the other is all pretty much hogwash. People all claim to hear improvements when they know they have spent $$$ for the big name and big diameter stuff, but in blind tests they have yet to find someone who can hear a difference between cables, even with different gauge. Open your speakers and look at the size of the wire going from the terminal connects to the crossover and to the drivers. Open your amp and look at the diameter of the wire internally to the speaker posts. If it made a difference sonically you would see large diameter wire there also. We don't, because it doesn't. Save yourself some $$$ which can be put to better use elsewhere, and go down to Radio Shack and pick one.

Or is anyone with Forte, Chorus, La Scala, Belle, Khorn, Heresy or Cornwall speakers using Adcom amps?

I became a Denon convert about 15 years ago with my Forte ll's when I did a side by side comparison between a Denon Integrated amp and an Onkyo Integra amp of around the same power (90w/ch). The Denon had much better bass management and warmer sound compared to the Onkyo. I am currently looking at upgrading my system to higher power (around 200 w/ch), either as separates or as an outboard amp possibly with a Denon AVR. Someone told me that Adcom amps sound better than Denon, but had no experience with them and Klipsch speakers. Does anyone have any a/b comparison experience with Denon and Adcom amps with speakers similar to mine? I'd love to hear from you.

Hi guys, first post, hoping to borrow from your wisdom. I have been an avid Klipsch fan for years and bought my Forte ll's back in '89 I believe. Didn't realize it at the time, but they could possibly be the last pair of front speakers I ever buy. I love the sound they produce, and as many of you know, they play anything well. For the past 15 years I have been using a Denon PMA 980r integrated amp (vintage 1991, 90 watts/ch) which seems to team pretty well with these speakers. For my HT setup I have an Onkyo ES600 pro processor, which has an 80 watt amp for the center channel and 2 20 watt amps for the rear surrounds in pro logic mode. I have a Klipsch center channel speaker and 2 JBL in-walls for my rear surrounds, about 9 feet high. Room is a 2 story, 18 foot ceiling, probably 20' by 18'. Here's the dilemma: I want to upgrade my HT to include Dolby Digital, and I want more power to my Forte ll's when I listen to music. I don't want to sacrifice music quality just to get better HT performance. I am thinking about either 1) buying Denon separates on ebay, with either a 5 channel amp like the older POA 5000 (100 w/ch x 5) or a combo of 2 channel amps like the Denon POA 2400a or 2800 (200w/ch), teamed with a Denon preamp/surround processor, or 2) buying a Denon 3806 to power everything. I have heard great things about the 3806 for HT but I am concerned that I may not be as happy when listening to 2 channel music as I might be via the first option. I think the $$$ spent would be about a wash, so there I am right on the fence, doing nothing. I am assuming I will have better power and amp sections for music by going with the separates, but better processing for HT by going with the 3806. Someone has recently suggested that I buy the 3806, and then add another external amp via the pre-outs to run the Forte ll's (like the Denon POA 2400a or 2800, or does anyone have any experience with Adcom amps with Forte's?) Any thoughts on the above? Which way would you push me? I am wearing myself out on this as I am ready to pull the trigger but don't want to make the wrong choice. Thanks for your input.