Forte2me

Hi Greg, I would think the most notable difference you will experience with the Forte II (you didn't specify Forte or Forte ll, there is a difference) vs. your Quartets will be a much improved bass response. Not sure if you would see a 'notable' difference with the Forte. Michael

OK, time to chime back in here. I posted my thoughts on the Forte ll back on page 3 (I think) of this thread the first time around. You could say I am biased on this speaker since I have owned it for more than 20 years now. But I wanted to add a couple thoughts that might be relative for those who might be considering the Forte ll vs. another speaker. Believe me when I say again (first in my original post) that NO WAY did I think I would still be listening to these speakers 20 years after I purchased them new in 1988. And that would be from the perspective of 2 channel audio, I certainly had no idea they would anchor my HT setup as well. I have listened to plenty of speakers in my lifetime, and have played with La Scalas and even the mighty Khorns. At times I have been tempted to wander into that sickness that we all suffer from occasionally in the audio world, that being there must be something out there that sounds better than what we currently own. However, I have never found anything I like better in my application than the Forte lls, and that is why they still sit in my family room. Now, if I was going to DJ a dance in an auditorium, then bring on the La Scalas and the Khorns, but for me they are both impractical for my family room, and for many of you they will be as well because of the space requirement. Not to mention the cost difference. My brother has LS in his HT setup, but I will tell you honestly that my Forte lls walk all over them on bass response and I even like the F2 imaging better in a family room setting. I think LS need a much larger room than a home can provide before they can really sing. Some great comments here so far. Definately agree that there is only one center channel for the F2's, and that is the Academy. Mine sits below my LCD tilted slightly upward, and movies are as fun as the theater. They are harder to find out there, but can still be found. I have added a Sub on loan from a friend, not that I thought it was needed, but it became available and has added a deeper resonance to what already was very tight bass. When you consider the footprint of the F2, the imaging they provide, and the price you can pick them up for now on the used market, they are in my opinion one of the best options available to anchor a HT/2 channel audio system setup for someone who might be out test driving. One could very easily end up spending a lot more and end up with a lot less. These speakers have an amazing ability to play anything well, from the latest digital download of hard rock to a classical orchestra. They hit hard when they need to, but the realism they provide even at low levels is truely amazing. I would like to see one of the audio magazines do a side by side review of a Forte ll / Academy setup vs. some of the current audio offerings out there for HT applications. I think the results would be very interesting. Paul Klipsch was definitely ahead of his time.

Denon amps are top notch in build quality and sound, and will drive your Fortes nicely. I have run Denon equipment with my Forte lls for over 15 years and am very happy with the result. My POA 2400 has a little more power than the POA 1500 you are looking at, but the 1500 has those awesome meters on the front which are unbelievably cool to watch as they bounce back and forth. My brother almost bought one of those a few years ago.

I would spend some time there looking around first (guessing you probably already have over the weekend) and then decide. Plenty of resources available there by joining up for free, but the site is always looking for some new revenue and will award you with a few extra perks by going the paid member route.

You don't know how many times my car has "almost" been sold in our 21 years of marriage. Would have been a huge mistake. Since the restoration has been finished, my wife now loves the car, just like we were dating in it all over again... I believe it was a 67 SS/RS convertible...man that would be worth some dough today. This is actually a '68, a '67 would have wing windows on the front of the doors next to the windshield. And yes, if this car is still around it is definately worth some $$$ today...

I would think on this economy that $20,000 would put you into a very nicely restored base model '69. You would be money ahead to go this route rather than pay $8 -12,000 for a project car that will end up costing you alot more than $20,000 by the time you are done with everything. Unless. of course, you want to go through the experience with your son and build the car exactly the way you want to. Tough to put a value on that. 2 resources that that you should lean heavily on right now: www.camaros.org is the first gen Camaro Research Group, or CRG as it is known. Take some time BEFORE you buy in the numbers decode section and learn for yourself how to decode the trim tag, the engine block stampings, the head castings numbers, the tranny and rear end numbers. Then you are an informed buyer, and you will learn first hand how "numbers matching" is the most overused and abused term in the muscle car market. If you wait until after you buy to go there, you will join many who have overpaid thinking they bought an RS, SS or Z28 when they are really buying a base model Camaro that was represented as something it never was. This only really matters to you if you are going after a rare car. If you love the lines and the car and the base Camaro is what you are after, then the numbers game doesn't really matter. Find one you love and take it home. I only throw that out there so you can be informed and don't get taken advantage of. The second is www.camaros.net which is the premier first gen site online. Join up and you will be with 43,000 others who love first gen camaros and everything about them. Get on the forum section and you will find answers to any questions you might have from those who have both built these cars themselves as well as purchased them in all stages. Also many like you wanting to get informed and looking to buy one, posting pictures of a car they are looking at and asking the experts what they think it is worth. Every bit as friendly and helpful as these folks here regarding these speakers we all love so much.

OK, my two cents. I own Forte ll's, bought them over 20 years ago and had no idea they would anchor my HT and 2 channel audio setup today. These are impressive speakers to say the least, they play anything well. I do not have a sub, and have not ever once felt I was missing anything on the low end. However, I am experimenting with adding a sub on loan from a friend this weekend just to play around with it while watching some movies for fun to do a comparison. My brother and Uncle both have Heresys - great speakers for their size but no comparison with mine on bass response. I have a friend with Chorus ll's - again a great speaker but alot bigger than mine. You should compare the dimensions on the cabinets and see what you have room for, the Chorus ll is a pretty large speaker.

Patrick, Don't listen to the criticism, you are on the right track. Obviously we all have our own tastes, but you are looking for one of the most sought after muscle cars out there, and for good reason. The first gen Camaro ran from 1967 to 1969. The more rounded or 'coke bottle' shaped 67 and 68 have a few differences, the '67 has wing windows on the front of the doors where the 68 does not. The 68 also has side marker lights where the 67 does not. The '69 you are looking for brought in a new more aggressive grill design, and more squared off wheel openings with lines that ran down the body behind the wheel openings on both front and rear openings. Rear tail lights are also different and more agressive for the '69. The '69 Camaro actually ran for a year and a half, and then GM changed the body style in favor of the more European styled 1970 Camaro, starting the 2nd generation. The 1969 Camaro has become the most desirable of all Camaros, and arguably one of the most collectable of all muscle cars because that unique body style only ran for a year and a half. The values in the marketplace reflect that. A 1969 will sell for a premium compared to a 67 or 68, and if the '69 is a RS or SS or Z28 it is only up from there. The epitome of muscle cars is the '69 Z28, basically a factory race car with a 302 rated by GM at 290 HP, but actually made over 425 when pushed from 5,000 to 7,000 RPM, an RPM range this little motor was built for that few motors of that day could operate in without falling apart. Look at the new 2010 Camaro, and you will see why in GM's quest to bring back this fabled brand, they went straight to the '69 for styling cues that were used both on the exterior and the interior of the car. Caution: High fraud factor on restored cars being sold as SS or Z28 that left the factory as regular 'plain jane' camaros. Those who rebadge them as something they never were are looking to cash in on the premium prices the originals bring. Badges can be easily bought at restoration shops and installed on any car so read up on the real differences before you pay big money for something just because it has an SS or Z28 badge on it. The good news for you is that with the down economy prices for these cars are lower now than they were a year ago, pretty much across the board. So, bad news for the seller, but good news for you. A year ago you would pay $30-35,000 for a restored 'plain jane' 1969 Camaro. An SS would go for 40 to 60 large, and a real Z would be upwards of 70 to 100 depending on condition. I own a 1969 Camaro SS 350 that I purchased in 1979 as the car's 2nd owner. This was my first car at age 16. I loved it then, and I love it now. Just completed a restoration of the car about a year ago. It's fun to drive around and see reactions - one of my favorites was when a CHP (California Highway Patrol) passed me on the freeway and then slowed down to pull up alongside me, and then rolled down his window and started asking me questions about the car as we are moving down the freeway together. Wish I had a picture of that. My 12 year old daughter was with me at the time and still talks about it.

If I go the receiver / outboard amp for my mains route, and to save some money pick up a used Denon 3805/7 or similar for the AV receiver, how do I get around the lack of HDMI inputs to process the HD signal (I know the newer series Denons have HDMI ins/outs, but don't believe the 3805/7's do)? I currently use a Toshiba 1080i DVD player, which I have hooked up with HDMI from the DVD player directly to the TV, and analog audio via RCAs out from the DVD player to my Denon preamp. At some point I would like to go to Blu-Ray. Does the component video out option from the DVD and into the receiver option carry the same quality video signal as HDMI? And then would I have to use the same component video cables from the receiver out to the TV? If that handles the video, how do you carry the 5.1 digital audio feed from the DVD to the receiver? Is the digital coax out or optical out the same quality as HDMI? If not, am I better of spending more and getting a newer Denon 2808/9 that handles HDMI ins and outs? Money's pretty tight for awhile after the TV purchase...

You might get lucky and find a name brand plasma to fit your specs on ad somewhere, but I don't think you'll do it with LCD. You never know, superbowl is not that far away, and they all love to run great ads then, certainly on this economy I think you will see some pretty attractive ones - not sure how urgent your need is. Large screen plasmas are pretty power hungry (vs. LCD), so something to think about.

I heard that it was a Heresy center, or at least they marketed some that way in the late 50's or early 60's. In fact, pretty sure I read somewhere that this is the origin of the Heresy line, that they then started making them in pairs. I know someone who purchased what was claimed to be an original center channel Heresy, including the wiring diagram of how to set it up with only a 2 channel amp. Cane grill and the whole bit.

For those of you who are not using AV receivers in your HT setups, anyone using older equipment? How are you handling the 5.1 decode? Thanks.

Thanks for the input Peter. Anybody else? Is everyone running A/V receivers?

Just brought home the Samsung 640 series 55 inch 1080p 120 hz LCD from Best Buy over the weekend. Contrast is 80,000 to 1. $600 more than what you are looking at, but I have to tell you this is one awesome TV, and a pretty good price considering. My brother has a DLP and loves it, but it's not as clear as what I am now looking at. 2 guys I work with have Misubishi DLP's, 1 is a 65 inch and the other is a 72. They tell me the DLP's have issues with the projection bulbs burning out at about 2000 hours. Believe that's part of that technology, and perhaps the reason they are being phased out. At 3 hours a day, that's 2 years. Not the end of the world, but something to think about as someone will hand you a repair bill to replace them, unless you do it yourself.

So you do hear a difference between them? Did you mean to say you can't hear the difference when going between the two - or you can (as written above) and that's why you use the HK mentioned and then use audio direct for your 2 channel? I guess my follow up would be if it is the latter, have you ever done an A/B comparison using the HK a/v with audio direct mode vs. a preamp to see if there is a difference in sound quality?

Thanks for the input so far. I understand the concept of moving to an A/V receiver and then linking my Denon POA 2400 amp to it to run my Forte ll's, but to go that route, since the A/V receiver would then become my preamp when listening to 2 channel audio, am I not losing audio quality when compared to what I have now? That's my big hangup on this (aside of cost, since I did buy the 55 inch 640 series Samsung LCD over the weekend). I agree that in movie mode that setup would rock, but I have concerns on what happens in 2 channel audio mode. I am probably 50% movies and 50% 2 channel audio on my system. In my current setup, I only activate the Onkyo Pro Logic decoder/amp setup when I am watching a movie, and I like that aspect of it. To be clear, the Onkyo ES600 is not a receiver. In 2 channel audio I only run my Denon preamp, my Denon amp, and my Forte ll's. That's why I was wondering if there was something comparable to my Onkyo processor out there would handle the digital 5.1/7.1 signal but include onboard amps for the center and rear surrounds. If I am all wet and this is not doable then tell me so. But if the only way to get the better movie experience is to part with my preamp and go with an A/V receiver and then run it as a preamp in 2 channel audio, will I be happy with what I will hear in 2 channel audio? How do you guys get around this on a budget? Thanks.

I am stuck between wanting to stay with vintage gear and yet feeling like I am missing out because I don't have 5.1 / 7.1 capability. Here's where I am. Forte ll's as mains (love them), KV2 as center channel (weak link, but Academy on the way next week), JBL in-walls for rear surrounds. I run a Denon PRA -1500 preamp and a Denon POA - 2400 amp (200 wpc rms). I use an Onkyo ES600PRO surround processor, which is (gasp!) Dolby Pro-Logic and has its own 50 wpc amp for the center channel and 20wpc amp for the rears. This unit runs through the tape mon circuit of my preamp, so I only engage it when I am watching movies. I listen to all my music through straight up 2 channel without activating the processor. I am still using a (gasp again!) 32" tube TV, but that will probably change today as I think I am going to buy the Samsung 600 series 55" LCD 1080p 120hz that Best Buy has on sale here through today at $1899. My setup actually sounds great, but remember Pro-Logic only sends a mono signal split between the two rear surrounds. I don't use a Sub. Well, c'mon guys - with two 15" passives and two 12" actives in the room, who needs one? You Forte ll guys all know what I mean, the rest of you, well, should listen to a buddy's Forte ll's and you'll understand! I am also thinking about getting a blu-ray DVD to take advantage of what the flatscreen has to offer. So, serious upgrades in the works for center channel, TV, and DVD signal. However, now the quandary begins. The TV/Blu-ray setup is going to set me back for quite awhile. Is there a unit out there in the used market that I could utilize in place of my Onkyo processor that would provide the same function for me (including onboard amps to power the center and rear speakers) and allow me to upgrade to 5.1? I don't know how to even begin bringing an HDMI or digital/optical cable signal into the vintage equipment arena. Am I forced to switch out this preamp that I love and go to one of the pre-pro setups? And then more amps? And if I am, is there something on the used market that anyone would recommend that won't break the bank? There is alot of wisdom and experience on this site. I'd love to hear any input you guys have.

I bought my Forte II's new in 1988. Believe they were about $1200 at the time for the pair. I had no idea I would still be listening to them over 20 years later, and that they would anchor my home audio and home theater system. My brother runs La Scalas, which I love, but my Forte II's have tighter bass hands down. For the size of these speakers they are simply unmatched in my book, and I don't care what you have spent either past or present. Not trying to upset anyone, but I will take these anyday in a HT setup for your front R and L speakers over any of the new Klipsch stuff. DVD's sound as good as the theater, and shake the walls - and I don't even run a sub. My only weak spot has been the KV2 I use as a center. However, I finally have an Academy on the way to remedy that situation... In 2 channel audio in my 16 X 14 family room, put on a good recording, sit down on the couch, and if you close your eyes you would swear the band is performing right there in front of you. They play anything well, from vintage rock to classical. For what you can pick a pair of these up for now on the used market, you simply cannot go wrong in my opinion. I run a Denon PRA-1500 preamp with a Denon POA-2400 amp for power.

Interesting look, Colter with the grills on the back - anyone else using these? Definately functional, not sure if I could get used to the appearance - any opinions on effect on resale value (not that any of us would ever sell them...)?

I am going to move mine to 12 inches tonight to do an A/B, I guess mine are closer because of my 3 year old son running around. See my earlier post about passive radiator replacement...

Anyone have any data to support the proper distance from a flat wall (carpet floor) that Forte 2's should be placed for best bass response? Mine are currently about 6 inches away but I am curious how others might be set...

Michael & Bill, Thanks for the tip, I think I will try out the repair this weekend. I am thinking I will try to seal it just from the inside so the repair is not as visible, but we'll see how that goes...

bump

Michael, would you do that if it were your speaker, or would you send it out for repair/reconing? Be honest...

Phil, I became an immediate Heritage convert when I bought my Forte ll's new in 1989. Loved the highs, loved the mids, and loved the low end. I have never heard a speaker so well rounded across any type of music or DVD movie you throw at it in this price range. I drive mine with a Denon POA 2400 amp and would put them up today in a side by side against many costing multiples of what I paid, even back then ($1,200). I hope no one throws rocks my way, but Reference is a different, less appealing sound for me, and they don't compare in my book, or my brother's, and we are both Klipsch fans. He owns La Scalas, and although you cannot argue with the effortless highs and mids they produce, we both know that I kick his behind when it comes to tight low end Bass. With Khorns or Belles or La Scalas the first requirement is probably a very understanding wife who is willing to give up some square footage in the family room. The size of the F2's is not as imposing as the others, and yet you still have the full range of sound. My Forte ll's also anchor my HT setup, and do so extremely well, without a subwoofer. You can probably pick up F2's in good condition on ebay for $500-$700. Just my opinion, hope it helps.