DavidF
-
Posts
121 -
Joined
-
Last visited
Content Type
Forums
Events
Gallery
Posts posted by DavidF
-
-
Interesting point you make about having the support of Klipsch behind the product. It never occured to me that I'd ever need that. Only by joining the forum have I come to realize that if I needed help, parts, whatever, the company would still be there.
This stands in direct contrast to my experience with one of my motorcycles, a Buell which is no longer made. The parent company, Harley Davidson, would just as soon we all went away. With tee shirts, if possible.
H-D
and Buell may be a good analogy to brand identification which is, in part, the
answer to your question.
Paul
Klipsch had several engineering principles that he adhered to throughout his
involvement with his company. High efficiency provides low distortion and a
dynamic sound where both combined form the prime characteristic of the brand
over many years.
Additionally
his speakers were voiced with a flat-to-rising frequency response that was
quite the opposite of many of the low efficiency models that allowed a dip in
the mid range or falling high-end response to mimic the large symphony hall
effect of sound propagation. So, put together all of the design traits Klipsch
used and you have a house sound.
I
suppose that to many the Klipsch house sound seems “bright”. The house sound
did not mimic the Altec theater sound (rolled off bass and high end). Nor did it
mimic the symphony hall tendency to roll off the highs and add bloom to the mid-to-upper
bass. To my ears the overall Klipsch sound provided a quality of reproduction
that does remind me of original sound. Original sound has a certain bite and
air. I read of people who just don’t like the horn sound, though. So there
could many reasons Klipsch don’t appeal to all.
H-D
certainly has a design and riding experience that all who ride them know and
love. Think of H-D and you think of a big twin set into a long low frame. The
Buells hardly fit this H-D house design, however. Just as Paul would not continence
a low-sensitivity design with an “audiophile” sound I sense also that Willie G.
could never bring an upright frame that actually corners into a H-D catalog.
-
Surplus capacitors and a bunch of Electrovoice Drivers
And a box built in this shed...
I also agree with Dean. All kidding aside isn't Klipsch one of the few present manufacturers that makes all of their own drivers?
Klipsch made some of the drivers and woofers in house but this was not, is not, the same across the entire model line.
B&W, Dynaudio, Focal, KEF, TAD just off the top of my head make their own drivers. I am sure there are several out there.
-
I would offer some caution about using expensive components
in a Heresy II. Some in the forum will argue otherwise and might offer advice more in line with your expectations. What works for you is always the key.
The drivers of the Heresy are good quality but hardly in the
higher end of the engineering/price spectrum. In any event they sum together to
work beyond what could be expected of them.
Personally I would hesitate at spending more for the crossover
than all of the drivers put together.
More of a cost/benefit consideration rather than a penny-pincher’s
lament.
I have the Heresy II and have used a few different component
combinations. The only noticeable difference was using a better
quality cap in the mid leg of the xover. The effect was to allow for more
detail in the mix. Not so much that I could guarantee hearing the difference on
any recording, or necessarily at any time. What I am trying to say is that any
improvement for me was fleeting. I went
with Clarity Caps all round since the component values are small for all legs.
I can’t comment on different coils. I use a larger gauge
wire with laminate core. I did not notice any difference but I don’t push the
Heresy’s that hard. The sound loses coherence and dynamics when the sound
levels get high.
-
I plan to do something a little bit similar but to a slightly different end. I intend to take my Forte ll which now belong to my son and remove the passive radiators and replace then with a very stiff blank or braced plywood. Then I will likely fill the cabinets about 85% solid with high density fiberglass. This ought to yield better quality bass with deeper extension than currently possible with the passive radiators. Essentially a larger version of my Heresy 3. Remember a vented cabinet (passive or ported) rolls off at 24 db per ovtave and a sealed cabinet rolls off at 12 db per octave. Will let you know when I get to this but it woks like a hot *** with the H3. This of course will be after the cabinets are fully braced and stiffened. Best regards Moray James.
Not sure what you expect but that is a really large enclosure for sealed box application. The bass response will droop considerably.
-
The xover is usually the last significant part of the design
process as the designer “voices” the system. An experienced designer knows how
to lay out a crossover design pretty much based upon a sense of what will work.
Then some empirical testing and measuring is needed to further refine the
filter. This is because using actual drivers with their variance in impedance
and response at any given test point will not fit the theoretically perfect
design based upon a fixed impedance and frequency response. Finally the designer
will fine tune the filter components using either a desired measurement criteria
or simply by listening. You can see that if even a small tweak in the filter or
a driver substitution can upset the finely tuned design.
So if you are considering changes, and major changes at
that, will it change the timber of the system response? Absolutely. Most times
in a negative way. My comments are not to discourage your system tweaking but
more to caution against thinking that simply by swapping speaker system
components you could expect such change to be an “upgrade”.
-
Take the system down to basic two channel. Especially go around the room correction equalization. No subs, etc. See if the sound clears up. I would think that the amp section is breaking up for lack of power/current reserves.
-
Recycled motion picture show seats for the gallery. Very cool...
-
The horn tweeter is starting to beam above about 8,000 Hz or so. Meaning that the off axis response is falling off faster than directly on axis. This is going on with the mid horn as well. The amount of high frequency energy bouncing off the walls, etc. is therefore less and this makes the overall power response droop depending on your exact listening position. The fix sometimes used is a form of equalization in the passive xover to allow the tweeter response to rise a bit at frequencies above 8-12,000 Hz. Though this helps in the overall power response it can sound harsh and piercing on axis with the drivers.Is it strictly limitation of the tweeter, or does it have to do with overall integration/synergy with the rest of the system; is the tweeter response held back intentionally? What can be done to achieve more extension on the top end of the Klipschorn? My 56 year old ears are in pretty good shape so I am missing quite a bit of top end.
Rick
The EV unit used by Klipsch actually performed better in the horizontal plane when the long axis of the horn was up and down. Could be that the horizontal orientation used by Klipsch better blended with the mid horn response so that is why they chose to keep both horns horizontal.
-
I know the feeling, well. Klipsch won't have a direct replacement. The model they suggest is different. To what extent I can't confirm but you really would need two to ensure matched response from both stereo pairs. Otherwise, you may need to shop on ebay etc for a used replacement for your particular driver from the H 1 series.
-
Sorry, yes, connect the amp output directly to the woofer. This will take the xover out of the circuit. This may not the answer but just to be sure the xover is not the culprit, here. Always careful not to cross those speaker wires, as you have already determined.
Builder --
Why exactly do you need a fire extinguisher in such close proximity to your speakers?? Well, the weekend is here so it looks like I am opening the heresy up and really digging around.
DavidF, not sure how to bypass the xover. Just bare wire lead from the amp to the woofer terminals? Will take a close look at the dust cover, but these are pretty low hour K-22s.
Am substituting Kg-1s and RB-5s in the meantime.
Thanks for the ideas.
-
Excessive heat will deform the former, causing an out of condition. Still enough clearance to move with signal changes but some of the coil will rub and catch on metal outside the gap. More power still can cause the coil wire to just blow like a light bulb filament.
Shorting the input terminals could cause a burst of DC current to pass through, or drop to very low resistance, but like mentioned above the first thing that may blow is the amp, or the amp fuses.
I would also try bypassing the xover and connect the woofer directly to the amp output just to eliminate a bad xover circuit.
-
Excellent, thanks. I googled around and found DIYaudiovideo that has some on-line calculators to design a parallel notch filter to take a wide hump down a few dBs.
Once I get a design figured out, I have to post it, it's going onto the woofer. I am attempting to drop 3 dB from approx 225Hz ~ 500Hz. The resistor called for in the notch filter calculator is roughly 2.5 ohms, but if I am putting several hundred watts into it, I may need help in figuring out how to gang up the resistors to accommodate the high wattage source. I was looking at Erse 25W wirewound in ceramic body resistors.
A notch filter is really tough to work with without some means to test results. As always you are dealing with changing values in impedance in the circuit.
-
Double post edit.
-
Well, it's not a glowing review by Art Dudley. No mention of what equipment he used for the review. I can't say I agree, he says the treble was raspy and tiresome. I find the Heresy to be very neutral in my system so I'm not sure what he is hearing. I'll agree that the tweeter is perhaps the weak link, lacking air and extension (my words) but I can't say I hear the same things he is hearing. Anyway, life goes on...
Raspy in the treble sounds more like the mid range driver. Some folks just don't like horn/compression driver sound and find ways to express their bias in what they hear. I have heard that for years about "horn sound" and take it as that- a bias. I have not read the article so I better wait before I say more about the review.
-
The speakers will resonate the same whether on the floor or up on stands.
Having a speaker firmly set to the floor often affords the means to shift some of the resonance away from the cabinet to the floor (assuming a wooden floor). That can remove some of mud out of the lower mids. Perhaps that will clear up the bass response by not actually altering the bass response but rather by removing some grunge in a range above the bass. Whether audible or not is going to be arguable.
Setting the Cornwall up on wobbly stands can work two ways against you. First it may not act as a resonance sink like a firm fitting on the floor. Second small gaps between the floor and stands, and then between the stands and cabinets, may cause a secondary source of sound from the actual vibrating contact points.
So, my first concern is a stable platform. As mentioned by Moray a three point stand is a good way to get even pressure points at the floor and cabinet. You need to factor in stability control, however.
Building a stand with mass such as a sand-filled idea will have mixed results. Unless you have the means to actually measure progress. I would concentrate on a stand that is made of sturdy materials with good joinery technique to avoid creating a “new” source of sound. -
Clearing out a double post.
-
So I stopped by the stereo store today. Came home with a Dual 731 Q. I went to the internet and read that there is issues with getting replacement cartridges. Gentleman said it has original cartridge and that he can get new needles. Should I be concerned, or just grin and play it as I am doing now. Appears to function fine. Comments pro and con, Please........... Taz
This series of the DUAL line used a specially made Ortofon cartridge that was incorporated into the head shell. DUAL named this ULM (ultra low mass) as it was designed to be very lightweight.
Just going by memory there was two or three series of the ULM with three levels of cartridge/stylus build quality. Your model had the ULM 60 and replacement stylus DN160E.
Original replacement stylus from DUAL are long out of stock much less production. If you are offered a “new” stylus then it will be an aftermarket item and subject to unknown quality and specs.
The 714Q (which I use) and the 731Q had a special kit that replaced the head shell to allow mounting a standard ½ inch cartridge. A counter weight plug was part of the kit to add more weight to balance the heavier cartridges.
The original cartridge assembly is very lightweight and compliments the low mass arm quite nicely. It may worth trying to track down a good quality aftermarket stylus. I like the sound though I am still using an oem stylus.More on the subject:
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=335608&highlight=714Q
-
Sure won't fit on the back of the terminal cup, will it?
-
Nice to share this reflection back in time with you. Sounds like one of those bonding moments between sons and fathers that you don't recognize until many years later. With me it was HO train sets with which my Dad helped me. Or, more precise, he allowed me to help him.
Images and memories I still carry to this day.
-
Does the pitch variance light work? Does it show any change in rotation speed?
I have not owned the top-of-line BIC but a couple of things come to mind. The belt has likely sat in one position for many years. The rubber tends to dry out and deform so that as it rotates the elasticity varies.
Second is the main table bearing that may be gummed up or dry. Not sure how to access but it should be fairly straight forward.
Here is a copy of a service manual. You will need to register at the site to get access.
http://www.vinylengine.com/library/bic/980.shtml
Edit: well there goes JHOAK just a step ahead of me!
-
I always caution tweakers to take a cautionary approach to active xovers. In better quality speakers the original passive design is engineered for the specific speaker system. The designer knows that “perfect world” theoretical applications of filter design go out the window using actual drivers in actual enclosures. The theoretical design may be a starting point but rarely survives in the final design.
Inserting an active filter into the system takes you back to the “perfect world” point though some features allow you some added flexibility such as adjustable slopes and gain controls to match driver sensitivity. If the drivers you use are relatively flat around the xover point you may have good success with off-the-shelf filters. This is often the case crossing a woofer to a mid where each are well behaved an octave or so around the xover point.
You may not be so lucky in the case of the RF-7. The passive design likely compensates for the diffraction loss with woofers on a narrow baffle as Ski Bum mentions. The high filter likely has some equalization built in to compensate for the horn response fall off at higher frequencies. I could go on with other examples but you get the point.
A xover point is where the frequency response is transitioning. A high pass filter set at 1200Hz means frequencies above 1200 are allowed to pass but roll off below that frequency at a graduated rate. A typical design will have the response already down 3-6 dB in magnitude at the 1200 Hz xover transition point and continue to attenuate going down in frequency so many decibels per octave depending upon the filter configuration. A low pass is the inverse.Tweaking can be fun and I say try it but be honest with yourself in whether this change results in an improvement.
[edited for clarity]
-
I would not be too quick to conclude there is something wrong with the Chorus. It may be simply differences in presentation between the two. From repsonse graphs I have seen the La Scala has some peaks in the high end response, particularly around 5-7K. This will tend to add some "sting" to sibilance and mid harmonics that are more subdued in the Chorus. Try listening a while to the La Scala to allow your hearing to adjust. Then go back and listen to the Chorus for a while.
-
What is this trickery?
Marvel mentioned it in an off hand comment thread.
And I recently saw a picture of an individuals crossovers hooked up to a car battery.
I am unclear as to this purpose.
Does it keep the woofer coil warm in winter?
The us of a car battery for bias purposes may be, hopefully, out of context. The battery applies very little if any current. Why, then, a car battery? Unless this was a power source for a DC pre amp or something else in the chain. Still, what would need the amp potential of a car battery?
The link over to the Lansing Heritage forum provides some background on the application of bias in some JBL designs. See post #6.
http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?3555-Bypassed-and-Biased-Capacitors
-
No material in ealier Heresy models. It is a relatively small enclosure to be able to support standing waves but still known to be "lively". The second generation included a sheet of foam bent in semi circle around the woofer. Not sure about the 3rd generation.
LaScala port- rear or front?
in Technical/Restorations
Posted
Interesting.
Trying to think this through. What would be the design goal?
A port is
typically used to extend bass response. I got that. But compared to a seal box
the woofer output is substantially reduced at a given resonance and replaced by
the vent output. In this case though the woofer is horn loaded. Would the vent
also be horn loaded to maintain overall sensitivity from both outputs?
In
other words, aren’t you going to lose some already-limited horn bass response and
replace it with the vent response at a substantially lower output level?