seasterl

I surprised you don't agree. Any time you have a single forum dedicated to just one thing, as a rule, it does not encompass much more than just that brand (at least after hours and hours of reading). If you spend any time on the AA, then you'll see that comparisons are constantly being done between countless other brands, not just one. "Institutionalized" wasn't meant as an offense, but as an acclimation and bias toward a particular house sound. Many users of one particular brand (let's use Klipsch as the example here) have a bias toward the Klipsch house sound. It's admitted here. So if I need an unbiased opinion on all speakers, you gotta go elsewhere where there is no single preferred sound. Regarding not getting any response to fleshing out of mids, well, what's your answer? You can't say that you haven't experienced this with at least one pair of speakers, right? If you say "no" then you just discredit yourself. It's reality, and I was just looking for an unbiased opinion. I just spent nearly $1500 to order a pair of Heresy III based on the opinions of this forum, so I'm putting my money where my mouth, or rather ears, are regardless of some of the untoward comments from the AA members. Skeg1967: Thanks for that measurement and the beautiful photo. That's good info because I need to call Sound Anchors to raise the height just a tad.

Then what is the height of just the cabinet (without the riser on the bottom-front)? Could you make a measurement on the back side of the box as I will be removing the riser from mine when they arrive? (Thanks!) (Also, I guess I need to call Sound Anchors tomorrow and change my stand height.)

I'm not sure if the specification represents the total height with the elevator on the bottom of it or not? I need to know because I ordered a pair and I also want to order custom Sound Anchor 4-post stands and want to get the stand height right. Thanks!

Sorry about that! I thought those speaker were more efficient, but I see they're only rated at 94 dB. I have a pair of speakers rated at 96 dB and an 8 wpc amp is more than engough, so you should be able to get by with much less.

http://store.acousticsounds.com/browse_detail.cfm?Title_ID=17073 1.2 wpc in triode mode or 2.2 wpc in ultralinear (pentode) mode integrated tube amp that also functions as a headphone amp. Actually, it's a headphone amp first, and an integrated amp second, so it's versatile. There are some made in the USA if you want to go all out, but this Chinese-made is very tweekable and upgradable if you find it lacking in sonic purity. As being discussed on another thread, the Chinese make a lot of audio equipment as a very, very low price. In fact, most of Klipsch drivers are made in China. So if you are cool with that, then this Chinese tube amp will be a perfect match.

I like the Proton tuner.

Yeah, you got a point there, Jay481985.

Well, as an example of one of my concerns over the "Made in China" issue is the highly reviewed Lipinski L-707 monitor. These monitors sell for about $5000 a pair and have a Stereophile "Class A" rating. They're simple MDF boxes using Chinese-made Vifa drivers (outsourced from Denmark, I think, to China). The total cost of the two drivers (per speaker) are about $120 MSRP. If you add in the cost of mass-producing the MDF cabinet and veneering, and some Chinese-made crossover components and assembly, the total cost of each speaker is less than $500 in parts and labor. Yet there is a $2000 mark-up (per speaker!), or about $5000 per pair passed on to the consumer. If we work backwards and use the same percentage of mark-up, and we pay about $3500 for a pair of CW3, how much do those parts actually cost, and how big is the profit margin. It'll drive you insane to think that you just paid five times more than the speaker is worth, and saddened if the proceeds don't go toward aggressive R&D. Now we know that when it comes to sound and any musical instrument, if it sounds good, then that's how you decide on price. In this business, you can't put a price on sound. This is the other side of the coin: supply and demand. The market is saturating with Chinese-made tube amps that are selling for well over $1k each (some much more than that) just because they sound almost as good as their American-made (or Canadian- or British-made) counterparts. It's the same with speakers. If I can make a product in my garage for $150 and it sounds as good as something costing $15,000, most companies justify selling it for at least $10,000, and laugh all the way to the bank.

Thanks, Trey, and all you guys, for clearing that up. I'm optimistic that the Klipsch drivers manufacturered in China will continue to be good products and hopefully be more progressive in their R&D, esp. if Klipsch engineers oversee what's going on. I think that if those engineers ever pull out and allow the manufacturing to remain, then quality may go down. When I spoke with a gentleman at Klipsch today, I was told that the drivers do not mature with a progressive (and aggressive) R&D, but are still employing the same drivers that have been used for decades (changing only when the product name changes).

I agree with what you are saying, which is why I mentioned in my last post about the statistics. There are some fine Chinese-made components (and tube amps) available, but the chance of finding the best are more difficult. I agree with the Japanese analogy, thus my disclaimer about it being this day and age. I think that five years from now, almost all Chinese-made audio equipment will be as good as the American-made products are now, but I don't think most of the Chinese companies are quite there, yet. No doubt they'll get there, though.

I see your point, Boom3. I guess outsourcing to cheap labor doesn't matter to anyone anymore. HP calculators were outsourced to Singapore for years and quality remained high. The year they went to China, the quality plumetted. Clearly, there is wisdom in what should be outsourced and where. (I'm surprised more folk don't understand.) When it comes to home audio, this day and age, "Made in China" is more of a profit margin issue and less of a quality issue. I've experienced the same with tube amps, too. Now if you wanted a ping pong paddle and bought something from China rather than Japan, then you're not making too big of a mistake. The same goes with other things the Chinese manufacture well. There should be wisdom behind the design, I believe, and statistics should support that (if we could take a national poll).

Thanks for the reponse. I'm sure I'll still enjoy my H3 when they arrive and are well-broken in. A good friend of mine is a successful speaker designer and builder, and he remined me that the difference between the designer and the engineer is that an engineer will always use only the very best parts (never second-best), put them together, and assume that the sound he gets is the best that can be achieved. However, a designer will sometimes use a part that is second best (never of poor quality, of course, or even mediocre) in order to achieve a better sound due to optimized component matching. In fact, my Silverlines may be made in America, but the drivers are Dynaudio (made in Denmark, I think,... forgot where). The idea of Klipsch being a success story from the start and using close-to-the-best parts available is desirable, esp. at the price point of the Heritage line.

I was demo'ing a pair of RF83 last weekend (the series that has those pretty copper-colored cone drivers) and inquired as to where they were made (or who made them). Realizing that this "Reference Series" may be outsourced (or at least the drivers) to increase profit margins, we looked on the back of one of the drivers and it read "Made in China." Where are the drivers made that are used in the Heritage series? Part of the reason I'm buying a new pair of H3 is because of that "Made in America" pride and the rich history of Klipsch. Even though the boxes are assembled here in the USA, I have to admit that I'd be let down if I saw a "Made in China" label on the inside,.... on the parts that really count. I don't mean any disrepect to Chinese folk at all, but any "Made in China" label on a high-end stereo piece with American-made philosophy and heritage is nothing more than outsourcing to cheaper labor to turn the quick buck. I understand if Klipsch needs to make some profit margin on their lesser designs (Synergy, THX, and Reference, etc.), but the Heritage line should have nothing but the best inside-out.

Which "T-amp" are you referring to? If you can do it, all of the Rogue Audio tube amps are great, and you won't run out of power. Regarding tubed headphone amps, I was referring mainly to some from Cayin, Antique Sound Labs, Singlepower, and Berning (OTL). The Op-amp-based headphone amps would probably not be a good match with any Klipsch speaker. You're right, too, that the headphone amps may need to operate closer to their maximum output levels, but there are some that might have more power than others. Given the price and tweekability, I think some are probably worth a try.

I will be using the corner pads in upper corners, plus the usual decorative treatment like a large curtain, sofa, carpeted floor,... things that have a high WAF. If you've been married for very long you know that it's about compromise between a room that has acceptable aesthetics and something that looks like a recording studio. Fortunately, there are some acoustical treatments with high WAF ratings which I'll try to employ within a reasonable budget. I prefer to get the music right first, and anything that comes of the sub and HT application is just a bonus. So far it's working out okay. I'm using the 8-ohm Bag End S18E-I resting atop a custom-made Sound Anchors platform that employees levelling spikes. Atop the sub is a 160-pound slab of granite. I forgot the name of the speaker cable, but it's a 3-foot, 8-gauge pro audio cable with a Speakon connector with the Camco 22.2 pro audio amp (>400 damping factor, 1320 watts bridged into 8 ohms). I can hit a button on the Velodyne remote and completely tone down the sub to suit one of 6 different applications, be it jazz, rock, adventure, movies in general, and a custom setting selection. It'll control up to three subs. A more heavily damped room with all the treatments and a couple more smaller subs would be better, but being a family guy, I have to keep everything in balance.

The Velodyne SMS-1 is a pretty impressive processor, esp when you hook up the video feed to the TV and customize it. It's auto features take those notches (dips & spikes) out and smooth everything. It's hard to imagine to having something like this now. Fortunately, it's quite affordable. If you bi-amp your speakers and use a SET amp for your mids/highs and a SS amp for your bass, you can place this Velodyne in-line to control your bass to compensate for your room acoustics (seeing as how room acoustics are about 70% of the game). It does not allow for enough adjustment in the low frequencies to damage speakers. Sadly, this is NOT what I was expecting until I called the manufacturer today to inquire why I was so limited. (Then he explained that to me.) For pro audio subs like the Bag End, etc., on the market, the Velodyne will still help a lot with the lows, but it esp helps with those up to about 100Hz where you're matching to the main speakers. It's so autonomous that you feel like you're cheating.

Budman: Shouldn't your avitar be wearing red? BTW, I can't get my avitar to work? I use avitars on other forums and it was simple enough to load, but didn't load for me. I though about the CW3 speakers but wanted to ease into the Klipsch scene, esp since the CW3 are $2k more compared to the H3. The CW3 look like they're all business and ready to roll.

Expected time to complete is 6-8 weeks. It sounds like a credit to their popularity (I hope). Are there any upgrades or extras I should request with this order while it's in its infancy? These will be my first Klipsch loudspeakers and I'm buying sight unseen / sound unheard. I've always wanted to own a pair and now I'm excited. Their use will be for all-around two-channel, music concert DVDs, and home theater mains. I'll use them with a Bag End 18" S18E-I sub (driven by Camco 22.2 pro amp with Velodyne SMS-1 crossover / processor) for a chest-pounding, yet balanced sound that should do justice to rock music (unlike the setup in my signature below,... being it's only flaw, IMO). BTW, being a music-lover for almost 30 years now, I'm utterly convinced that a good breaking in helps most audio equipment, so I'll let these babies cook for about a hundred hours before I do any critical listening. Edit: I forgot to mention, but I really want to put these on Sound Anchor 4-post stands (the manufacturer is here locally) in order to elevate them to the TV and ears instead of being on the floor. What should I expect sonically? Any improvement?

Tone controls just add more stuff in the signal path and make it less pure. It's easy to muck up the sound. Tonal balance is best performed through system matching (which can take some trial and error until you can get the feel for what goes well with what). Tube amps are perfect for this because you can easily swap out a different set up tubes and shift the tonal balance,... IMO, of course.

Why not consider a headphone amp that also serves as a preamp and amp for efficient speakers. I think the Cayin might do this, and I've heard from a friend that it performs very well. The market is full of dozens, if not a hundred, wonderful headphone amps that are affordable and still work with Klipsch. Even though Cayin, I think, is Chinese, it doesn't mean that you can't drop in the tubes you like the best and do further upgrades. Plus, it will also serve as a nice headphone amp and require less space. The Creek 5350 is highly regarded and a well-made British unit. I've always wanted to try their amps, but I have had their CD43Mk2 CD player but currently use their CD53 CD player. The power may be overkill, though, for the ultra-efficient Klipsch line. I'd consider a preowned Rogue Audio Stereo 90 KT88-based amp and use it in triode mode. Audiogon will have great prices for these.

Rogue Magnum 99 tubed preamp (used on Audiogon, or new) is the best way to go. I use one and the four 6SN7 tubes are some of the best tubes you can use for signal and are highly tweekable, depending on how you like your music. The customer service with Rogue Audio is great, and they're well-made in Pennsylvania. Their integrated amps are terrific, too, and worth considering if you want an all-in-one package. I also have the Atlas, but got one custom-made to operate in triode mode, 4-ohm outputs, and all the component upgrades from the other better products in his inventory. I've also owned the Magnum M120 KT88 tubed monoblocks. Fantastic company, great quality. If their prices are high, find them on Audiogon preowned. Cary will be too laid back with excessive tonal shift. Rogue is only slightly laid back from neutral (although many tube lovers find that their KT88 push-pull triode-mode amps sound too much like solid state), but have a huge, wide, and deep soundstage.

The most tube-like SS amp I have heard (and love mine) is the Marantz Reference Series SM17SA stereo amplifier. I believe I saw one on Audiogon that would be terrific. This amp new a few years ago was about $1500 and at one time at the top of the Marantz line. I plan to get a couple of new Heresy III (black) in a couple weeks and will be using mine with this amp. It it a well-refined amp that keeps you listening to the music, not turning it off. For an Klipsch speaker that many might think sounds too forward (tonally bright) sounding, a SS amp that is a little laid back but not lacking detail would be the best ticket. No fussy tubes, just quiet solid state.

Thanks, Harry, for the vote for the CW. I was actually considering the CW III, but I'd prefer to use the smaller woofer driver found in the Heresy III to mate better with my sub. My sub setup is a Bag End S18E-I passive 18" driver in sealed enclosure, driven by a Camco 1320 watt pro audio amp (damping factor >400!), and tuned with the Velodyne SMS-1 subwoofer processor for room and system component correction. So up to about 80Hz, I think I should be okay. I just need a couple of horns to get the mids & highs articulated and resolved. Three horn drivers might be better, but, but unsure due to increase of price for La Scalla. I have room for the CW III, though, and I think they look okay, but I think my system would might be better balanced with HIII (or LS II).

I'd first give it about 100 hours of break-in using an FM tuner and SS amp. I'd dampen my room more and even try my Rogue Atlas EL34 (triode only) tube amp if necessary to get good sound. Placement and height would be a given as for other things to try. After doing a lot of homework on something and following through with a purchase, I really fight hard to try to like something, and selling would always be the absolute last thing I'd want to do. I'm glad I got to audion some RF83 because now I know that I'd never want to own them.

Well, I usually like to put my best foot forward when making purchases, but in this case, the HIII is so much less expensive than the La Scala II that I feel compelled to purchase it first and give it a shot. I'd prefer to buy La Scala II first because I think it will sound better with lower males voices and, but it's $4k more. Thanks for all the great comments. At least I know that if the HIII don't work out that you guys would give them a great home (ha ha). Actually, I learned a long time ago that you gotta pay to play this game.