Chris A
-
Posts
9702 -
Joined
-
Days Won
15
Content Type
Forums
Events
Gallery
Posts posted by Chris A
-
-
-
Chris,I'm actually bunking in at my BIL's place in Mansfield, just down 360. I would LOVE to come by and hear some Jubilees!! I work in Carrollton and probably drive by Mr. Carlton's place 10X a week, so it would be nice to meet him too.
All my SET tube gear is back in Hilton Head with the family (and the Khorns, Cornwall II's, Belles, Heresies, Danley TOP, etc, but my wife isn't complaining) so it will be a few months before I can show up with some quality low power gear (no flames, please).
Chris, just shoot me an email on the private messages. It should make its way to my Treo and leave a number. I'll give you a call. This weekend is pretty clear, then I'm heading to the West Coast M-F and back next weekend.
Dang ... Jubilees
PS: I have 2 pairs of KG4's and they sound great with tubes ... or even better, try a Sonic Impact for $30 ... They'll impress you.
You have a PM.
Chris A.
-
Well, I think we can remedy that. Send a personal message (PM) my way - lets make some plans.I would love to hear those Jubilees.
You're not the only one. I've only heard them in mono!
Chris
-
Ahh, that faint orange glow and that familiar updraft of hot air rising on a hot August night....Chris (Cask05) lives in Arlington. I'd bet he'd take care of you however, I don't know if he has tubes. I know he has some interesting stuff... I'd give him a whirl and see if you can branch out from there (presuming he can't help you)
Well, believe it or not, I think that Mr. Carlton's link is your best bet, because the tube meme hasn't infected me yet (and probably not anytime soon). However, if you want to hear some really killer blackies-in-the-corners, I''ve got a pair of Jubilees running on Crown XTi SS whizbangs.
(...bad Chris, bad Chris) You're welcome to come hear those... (...bad Chris, bad Chris).
Chris
P.S., You might be ruined for life...
-
I just wanted to reaffirm my offer to audition Jubilees in the Dallas/Fort Worth area. If you are interested, just PM me to set up a date/time.
Chris
-
I haven't dug into the HORNRESP model to understand what it is modeling and what assumptions it is making. I have seen that real horns have response that is typically outside of the passband predicted in the models. I'll leave those arguments to the pundits online here.Interesting. Here's my HORNRESP models of KHorn (black) and Jubilee (gray), 4π (anechoic), compared with the measurements. Horizontal scales are approximately the same; vertical scales very different.
The first curve posted in the pdf file above is said to be anechoic measurements for both lf bins tested separately in the Klipsch chamber and provided to the forum by Mr. Roy Delgado. I don't remember the thread name or the date, however.
Chris
-
The bass bins only - free response (i.e., no corners or floor).Does anyone have a side by side Khorn v Jubilee response curve?
Cheers
-
I may have contact information that you don't have. Gary was very ill in October when I bought a pair of his corner horns--which are beautifully made. Send me a PM if you are still interested.
Chris
-
Clearly, this phenomenon is at least partly responsible for theThanks for the link, Dean. VERY interesting article. Also very sad,
since there isn't much we can do about it.
resurgence of vinyl. What bothers me is that this is the first time I've
heard a big-name jazz artist use compression-Wynton Marsalis.
I've started buying "old version" CDs from resalers online.There seem to be a few recording labels that don't seem to do this--I've to
yet find a Chesky or Reference CD that does this. I'm sure there are
others.One way to help slow the "Loudness War" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudness_war)
is to stop buying any music that uses compression and send emails to the
recording companies that use it.One way to apparently deal with loudness war music that you have already is to use
something to fix the loudness to reference levels: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Replay_Gain .Chris
-
One unit has more than enough driver area to match two Jubs and it is very compact considering the size of its drivers, but not so compact in terms of WAF--40"x36"x40"--which will get your attention. I'm not sure how to integrate into a room in those proportions. [The Danley DTS-20 looks better from a room integratability standpoint but it doesn't have the driver area, or a competitive price when used in pairs to match mouth areas. I also don't see THD numbers for the Danley.]Any comments on the Bassault-R by Bagend? FLAT to 18hz, 104db sensitivity with 1watt at 45hz, Four 21" drivers with 4 1/2" voice coils, 310 lbs, 3200 continuous watts, usuable bass down to 8hz & I believe a $6500 or so price tag.
Actually, the price is good when stacked up against multiple Epik Conquests, although it's higher than I would like to see. I haven't seen any tests to understand its output and THD. They boast about their phase response a bit--it looks like an acoustic suspension (closed box) system. For home use, this would be great, but for commercial use, I would think internal heating would be an issue.
I don't see a lot of home enthusiasts talking about them. Do you know anyone that owns one?
Addendum: I would also consider the Bag End Quartz (4x18" woofers) at
less cost - though not greatly smaller than the
Bassault-R. Both units need amplifiers. -
Wayne, you're very welcome and thanks for the kind words. I enjoyed meeting you and your friends. When you're through D/FW in the future, drop in.I would like to take this time to publicly THANK Cask05 (Chris) for the opportunity to listen to his mighty Jubs...
Shinerman (Wayne)
I hope your Jub experience is as satisfying for you as it's been for me. Enjoy.
-
One issue that has been discussed on these forums is:
"what do we do about so-so recorded music".
I'm wondering what other people do to enhance their CDs or vinyl that has music we love but that is now more difficult to listen to because we now own other music that has been recorded that is much higher quality, and that we now own much better home music systems than before.
What do you do to enhance these "not so good" recordings?
-
I don't doubt that mixing engineers do their own equalization - I believe the issue is whether or not the reproducing sub has enough capability to do so, such that the at-home listener can hear it without harmonic distortion taking over the sensory experience. I think many people are actually listening to their subs reproduce the octave-above harmonic, but they have trouble hearing the fundamental because their sub's SPL output levels below 20-25 Hz is lower than threshold on the "F-M" curves for human hearing.The studio engineer is also experiencing F-M effects and will compensate the recording accordingly. In other words, F-M does not apply to loudspeaker design or choice of loudspeaker. I would argue that it is very possible to distinguish between harmonics and the fundamental, but it does require some ear training....even with the lower frequencies.
I don't doubt that people can be taught to hear those harmonics - I believe that I am aware of those harmonics, especially at levels that I typically hear from many off-the-shelf subs including commercial ones. The real issue is what people commonly perceive as "low bass". Most people do not take the time or effort necessary to train their ears to hear the harmonics. Most college music majors are obliged to, however...
-
Sorry if a gave the wrong impression - I wouldn't be asking these questions if I weren't interested or considering.Neato...so you would "consider" a subwoofer with the jub...
The
real issue is that I don't see much in the way of a sub that is up to
the task and is economically viable, including architectural
real-estate costs. Very few folks here are seriously talking about
buying a sub that extends the Jub lf less than an octave, and injects
significant THD. I feel this is something that is contrary to the main
attractiveness of the Jubilee itself - low THD. -
Actually,...but you're really limited to about a 2 octave bandwidth. I think Danley is claiming that he's extended it to about 3 octaves with an extra trick, but either is ok for a subwoofer.
I built myself a tapped horn sub a while back mostly as a proof of concept and discovered that the distortion was lowered by about 6dB at normal listening levels. At elevated listening levels, the air velocity through the horn is very fast, which is gonna mean distortion and power compression. I've never heard anyone mention it about the DTS-20, but it must exist...
What I was intending to say earlier was that a starting rule of thumb might be that the sub should extend the lf down at least one octave from the corner-loaded -3 or -6dB point of the Jub bin. I wasn't looking for a wide bandpass of the sub itself. I don't see the economic advantage of investing in a sub in that only extends the lf down a couple of notes before it is into its own lf cutoff region. Do the Klipsch subs (e.g., KPT-884) suffer from this problem?
The issue is that to actually hear anything below about 25 Hz, it has to be very loud due to Fletcher-Munson effects. I think most people think that they are listening to low bass but really are listening to the second and/or third harmonic - and that is what I think is meant by "club sound". They might feel those frequencies, however.
Addendum: Injecting second or third harmonic content into the bass line electronically is probably not difficult. I think that is the preferred way to get "club sound". In that way, the option exists to turn it off.
I'd be interested in hearing about your DIY tapped horn project results. Is it already posted here somewhere?
Chris
-
Mike (DrWho),
You have a PM.
-
Exactly. Now all we need is horn-loaded subwoofer whose driver really doesn't move and plays sub-20Hz with ease. Any ideas--short of making the side of the house a horn? The TRW fan subwoofer moves, doesn't it?...paul used to say, if it moves, it distorts...
in Christ, because of God's grace,
roy
Chris -
Roy,
You have a PM.
Chris
-
I believe that the subject turned to "if one was going to use a sub with a Jub, then what should we be paying attention to?" Roy mentioned that direct radiator subs usually have a lot of THD, and that paired with the Jub lf bin, it (the sub's THD) was very apparent. He then commented on what you might have to do to match the Jub's performance with a sub (or series of subs). I concur with his assessment.Subs are nice and may even be a good add on for a jubilee, but am I misunderstanding, we're not comparing subs to jubs are we....subs can't reach as high as jubs can.
Maybe I'm off base here.My comments were directed toward the difficulty in simultaneously attaining real lower bass performance (e.g., at least one octave below the Jub lf bin - ~16 Hz) and low THD required for Jub use. It really begs the question: "do we really need a sub with a Jub, because it degrades the overall performance?" which I still am waiting for someone to chime in on.
I'm a patient guy kind of guy--I can wait until the stars align to ask that question again...
-
Of course, there is the Eminent Technology TRW "fan subwoofer", but it needs a large custom-built antechamber to kill the fan noise (and about $20K to acquire) to install. But it goes down to 2 Hz, and a single unit will do ya...
-
cask05.. I have heard the big ole stove pipe speakers...
They are HUGE in any situation, and not as good as you might hope.. hehehehehe
You know,
I've read in several places that the
Lowther-based full range horns don't sound that good--reading opinions written on this side of the Atlantic. I can see that with the
horn above, the horn-loaded lf backwave in that design would have a fierce delay
problem that cannot be corrected in that configuration. I also assume
that IMD is big for that single driver trying to pump out mf without
benefit of horn loading. I also assume that those designs really don't
enjoy the kind of dynamic range of multi-driver horn-loaded systems,
e.g. Jubilee, Khorn, Lascala, etc.
It is evident that function
doesn't follow form in acoustics and I think that the full-range
driver idea doesn't work well in that light. If you try to correct for
the not-enough-driver-area issue by using multiple full-range drivers that
are identical in order to get more driver area, then, voila, guess
what you get? And we all know about those type of speakers. (I won't
speak that name in this forum.)
As Nam P. Suh, formerly of MIT, and inventor of Axiomatic Design might say: "...the use of a single driver system will result in a multiply-coupled system design...", and that isn't good karma.
Chris
-
-
Too late - he's signed up to show up tonight at my abode--I'll go easy on him so you can take credit for "turning him to the dark side". And I'll leave the planters to you--I need the room for other things...You can come back to my house and listen to Jubs in about 4 weeks or so. I am going to have a Klipsch/Jub fest at my house. Bring your planters, I will buy them from you.
Travis
Chris
-
You know, I had the same thing happen at my place...except it was James Taylor...and my son wasn't dancing, just the wife. (Son is 21--so dancing is uncool.)had a good sign tonight when I played the Carl Perkins song Blue Suede Shoes ... first time I've played the speakers in my wife's presence. My wife was helping one of our children doing homework and they both got up and started to dance seconds after the song started and they were about 35 ' way on the opposite corner of the room... I realized immediately that the Jubilees made a nice first impression. I had the volume half of what I would normally listen at too and the clarity not surprisingly was just wonderful from that far away
Jubilee Questions
in Technical/Restorations
Posted
http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/p/99200/1001594.aspx#1001594