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Chris A

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Chris A last won the day on December 22 2019

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  1. See the following post: https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/182419-subconscious-auditory-effects-of-quasi-linear-phase-loudspeakers/&do=findComment&comment=2388972 Chris
  2. Probably not any benefit that's measurable. Some people might claim to hear this sort of thing, but in A-B testing, I don't believe that they'd be able to pick it out. The vibrations from the bass bin below are going to move the 32 pound dual-AMT-1 structure mostly up and down, perpendicular to the direction that the listener is located. So there is no "Doppler effect" or induced modulation distortion from the virtual movements of the heavy AMT-1 structure with wings. I'd recommend just setting them on top of the cabinets in a way that you'd like them to be visually. Chris
  3. I've always been amused by the "computer sci" types (of which I was one at one time many years ago in CSE graduate school) that have defended both of those applications that I mentioned above (and is probably not on topic for this thread). The nice term for that is "vain". If you think that they have value, it's because it took you a long time to remember all the commands, and I mean "all", and commit them all to memory. They both represent a record low in the user interface design with no guardrails or training wheels for anyone that's learning to use the application other than reading a paper manual--which no one had years ago at universities, and online help was usually stripped off the system by the admins to ensure that "main CPU time was minimized on such parasitic operations". Those were the bad old days. ___________________________________________________________________________________________ In the case of Xilica's XConsole, I find that it's actually very straightforward to use--and most everything is in table or row format, with visualization of the effects that the PEQs and crossover filters are combining to create as you layer them on. When I look at the Yamaha application that does the same, I am very discouraged to stepping into it due to the "distributed" nature of its layout--like you have to know the internal architecture of the hardware and software to use--in icon format. One function that's missing in XConsole is a "sort PEQs ascending" function that will rearrange the PEQs that you layer on automatically so that they are easier to see which PEQs are conflicting or affecting the output SPL with each other--and being able to see the input PEQs on the same screen as the output PEQs. These are minor irritations, however. The deal with the background mute function being only accessible through the front panel is not a big deal--once you turn it off, it stays off and you never have to worry about it again (and I recommend turning it off and leaving it off). Chris
  4. I believe this is a candidate for the horn used: http://horns-diy.pl/horns/j-horn/ I didn't know that ESS provided the AMT used with the horn. I had assumed that the AMT was provided by another person (someone named "Jack Smiley"). If ESS provided the AMT itself for the Rainier loudspeaker, then perhaps it might still be available (i.e., Jack Smiley is apparently out of business building them). I haven't had much luck with getting responses from the horn manufacturer of the horn pictured above of late (Auto-Tech in Poland). It seems that they are not very interested in "customer service". I've tried to get a single response from them over the years. None of my messages have been successful in eliciting a response from them. Too bad. The horn that they show above is probably not the only profile that works well. In fact, I can see where that horn profile is not optimal in terms of lateral polar coverage vs. frequency--because it has curved walls and nearly flat top and bottom walls (the picture above shows the horn turned 90 degrees from its proper orientation to the floor). I've looked at the set-back measurements that you provided yesterday, and I've got to say that the 12" set back position looks a bit flatter in SPL response than the zero setback and 6" setback responses. But I have to say that this is probably more complicated than SPL response--in that there is a three-dimensional field of coverage that is affected by where you place a double-stack AMT-1 with wings. Looking at the other plots, there isn't much difference: phase, group delay, distortion, step response, impulse response, clarity, RT60, etc. In my small computer room with single AMT-1s not having wings, I found that putting the AMT-1s in the middle of the top covering the Khorn clone bass bins was a better choice from a SPL response smoothness and overall flatness standpoint. I really haven't had the time to try listening to different positions closer to the front of the bass bin front baffle. Chris
  5. I've found that every field that you type into needs to be verified that it locked in the change before leaving the field/screen. Additionally, I found that the XConsole application is much faster and more intuitive than front panel controls--even the Dx38--much easier and faster. I've used the application for over 3 years and have done a bunch of dialing-in of PEQs, etc. from REW's EQ facility in order to create .xdat preset files for a few dozen folks. I now think of XConsole as the most easy and intuitive to use of all my applications (by a wide margin). Chris
  6. You may not have hit "enter" when you changed a value within the mixer numeric field (instead of using the sliders). It will default back to the value before edit if you forget to lock the value in. It's the same deal with PEQ values, etc. You just have to verify that it saved your input. Chris
  7. Any measurements? I've taken measurements of the single AMT-1 w/o wings on top of my Khorn clone bass bins. Here is the SPL response after I flattened the SPL of each driver and set relative channel gains: I'll have to redo the measurements with a lot of added absorption around the loudspeaker and microphone in order to get good phase response...but here's a spectrogram that should suffice in the mean time: I don't believe that the stacked/winged AMT-1s will ever be able to cross as low as 280 Hz, but the phase issues that I was seeing with the three-way (Khorn clone top hat) have disappeared, so I'm okay with accepting the performance as-is for now. I have four new AMT-1s being shipped here for use with either the Belle bass bins (single AMT-1s are being used currently on the surrounds in my main rig) or with the Shinall bass bins in the computer room. I don't which place we'll enjoy them more but I expect an audible increase in vertical coverage angle and the ability to cross them a bit lower or the stacked/winged versions than the single wingless AMT-1s...and also play them with full dynamic range without rise of harmonic distortion, etc. Chris
  8. So Rich...you're not an EMACs or vi user, eh?
  9. That wire color thing that you stated above is correct from my measurements. I just dialed in a pair of single AMT-1s on top of the Khorn clones yesterday, after removing the top hats and salvaging the top of the top hats themselves for covering the bass bins and setting the AMT-1 on top (centered). I had to unscramble the phase on the bass bins and AMT-1s so that they are in phase at the crossover frequency band (to the measured AMT-1 channel delay using excess group delay), and in-phase left to right stereo channels. The purple wire is positive from my measurements. [Also note that the AMT-1 diaphragms take a fair amount of time to break-in. When I first got this pair of AMT-1s last year, it took about a week of playing them in the surround speakers before they finally loosened up.] Don't try to place anything soft on top of the top plate if you do this, because I found that the decrease in midrange SPL from using one absorption pad on top between the AMT-1 and the top of the bass bin was severe. The AMT-1 needs the entire top surface of the top hat, along with 8-10 inches of setback from the front of the bass bin top to develop the correct SPL response in the midrange (300-900 Hz). The final results are still in progress, but I can say one thing: the sound quality while sitting in the listening chair is much more listenable and smooth, and the soundstage is spectacular due to resolving the driver/horn sound quality improvements. There is also a definite lightness and increased apparent ambience that wasn't there before. This is in a room that is 13.5' x 11.5' x 8' (wide dimension front wall). The Khorn clones with stock top hats just didn't sound smooth and relaxed even though they were tri-amped and time-aligned. The natural crossover point to the Khorn clone bass bins is 560 Hz--with no crossover filters required--it crosses naturally at almost 24 dB/octave (single-high AMT-1 stack). The La Scala and Belle bass bins both will respond to over 1 kHz on-axis, so some form of crossover filter or wide-attenuating PEQ(s) will be required when using them. Chris
  10. Actually, my personal experiences with Khorns in such low ceiling small rooms have not been good. Of course, nothing that I've heard in such listening spaces really sounds very good. The Khorns sound pretty unnatural, tonally unbalanced, and harsh to my ears in that kind of room, even if treated acoustically, even if tri-amped and time aligned. The midrange horn in the Khorn (K-400) is the problem. It puts too much acoustic energy on the floor and ceiling below 2 kHz. I would replace the K-400s horns/drivers and the tweeters to full-range horns/drivers having taller mouth sizes or use something like an air motion transformer (AMT) that can extend its SPL response down to 400 Hz or lower, which have very narrow vertical coverage angles. The stacked/winged ESS AMT-1 approach is the type of AMT assembly that I'm currently considering, but either approach really requires a DSP crossover (bi-amping or tri-amping) to integrate with the bass bins. There is an alternative approach: build false corners for the Khorns and put them in a much larger higher ceiling room upstairs. Good luck. Chris
  11. Perhaps the most effective way that larger loudspeaker manufacturers could be using their marketing resources would be to find dual-use venues (like local or chain restaurants, commercial cinemas, and even appliance dealership showrooms, etc., etc.) for off-hours auditioning of their products dialed-in. Links online can now be easily made to a "where to hear them" database. One or perhaps two people with in-room setup expertise could run around keeping these set up and refreshed with updated products--even part time would be a better deal than currently exists. Higher end equipment could be effectively marketed via this approach, and the cost partially split with allied manufacturers of electronics (amplifiers, preamps, etc.), etc. like you see at trade shows and audio-fests. The total product costs per year will probably not be significant next to the salary+benefits of even one typical marketing executive, and some of the costs could be likely written off for tax purposes. This is in direct contrast to marketing people primarily lugging the equipment to shows. It's much better to set them up and leave them where potential customers can schedule time to listen over the course of a year rather than (perhaps) a weekend per year at a trade show. How many auditions on this equipment would be considered enough to amortize the costs? If hi-fi shops find it difficult to keep full-time owners and salespeople employed at dedicated storefronts, this is certainly one way to replace those lost storefronts and to keep costs down. Word-of-mouth marketing only gets stronger, not weaker, too. If the manufacturers can find places where they don't have to pay for a venue outright (a tough proposition but certainly possible), and can share spaces with other businesses/functions to get those loudspeakers out there in good installations to hold down costs--they might start to see many more future customers become familiar with their products--first hand. And they don't have directly compete with other brands while doing it. Chris
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