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About garyrc

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    Forum Ultra Veteran

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  • Location
    The Milky Way
  • Interests
    Music, audio, film, psychology, psychology of film, philosophy, religion, history, mythology, audio electromechanical mythology.
  • My System
    Main room: 2- 1982 Klipschorns with K-401 fiberglass mid horn upgrade (1987), and AK-4 Klipschorn stock upgrade (2006), Modified Belle Klipsch (2005) center channel with K401 horn in an enlarged hi hat, flush mounted, behind AT wall fabric, buried in the wall between flanking Khorns, 2 NAD C- 272 ss 150 wpc stereo power amps, Marantz AV7005 AV preamp/processor, Heresy II surround speakers driven by 1/2 NAD C-272 and a Yamaha 135 wt amp, NAD C-542 CD player, OPPO BDP-93 CD/SACD/DVD/Blu-ray player, Klipsch RSW-15 subwoofer, for movies only, Panasonic projector, 130" true width 2.35:1 projection screen (141.3" diagonal).

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  1. garyrc

    K-77-F tweeter on the way

    Dave, here is the new Klipschorn tweeter: NEODYMIUM TWEETER The Klipschorn features a neodymium tweeter with a 1” polyimide diaphragm and copper clad aluminum voice coil. This lightweight diaphragm assembly and high strength magnet structure creates the tweeter’s extremely high 109dB sensitivity and makes it the most efficient consumer tweeter in the market. When coupled to a 90° x 40° Tractrix® horn, the tweeter sets new levels of performance for dynamic range and output. The phase plug design extends high frequency performance to 20kHz, meaning you hear the most subtle high frequency details better than ever. SEE:
  2. garyrc

    K-77-F tweeter on the way

    I assume that the one in the new La Scala is the one in the new Klipschorn. Don't know the model or who makes it. The new Klipschorn has been out -- what? -- a few months?
  3. garyrc

    K-77-F tweeter on the way

    I believe that the only difference between the K77D and the K77F, is the D is front-mountable with a big enough hole to get the magnet through from the front, and the K77F requires an adapter (which they gave me as part of the AK4 update). I believe they have identical horn/lenses and identical performance. They sound great, IMO. Here is a graph of K77s from somewhere, but I think it's a little worse than my F's (see below). These are probably M's. The red one is from a Khorn. After 2002, they crossed over at 4.5K Hz, rather the old 6K Hz. The 4.5K crossover had a 36 dB/octave slope to protect it. I imagine the crossover was lowered to keep the glitch from sounding in the K55(?). The same design was used by EV, then by University, crossing over at an even lower 3.5K, with only a 12 dB/octave slope. Here is one of my K77Fs, slightly off axis. The divisions are 5 dB and the top data point on the graph is at 17K Hz. It is flattish to 12.44 K Hz, and down about 4 dB at 17K.
  4. garyrc

    Are modern musical trends creating bad music?

    When Chopin started out, some people complained about, "Eardrum shattering discords!" That's probably not a direct quote, but it is in Leonard Bernstein's The Joy of Music. When Stravinsky's Rite of Spring premiered, there was a near riot, some say with the breaking of chairs. Stravinsky: "I said ‘go to hell’… they were very naïve and stupid people.” Thirty years later, it was tame enough to be in Walt Disney's Fantasia. https://www.washingtonpost.com/entertainment/theater_dance/how-walt-disney-got-rite-of-spring-right/2013/06/19/8d008e78-d895-11e2-a9f2-42ee3912ae0e_story.html
  5. garyrc

    Backs on Klipschorns?

    My question is, when they are away from the corner, do they measure just as good as the backless ones fully pushed into a corner, or almost as good, or just different, with different strong and weak points?
  6. garyrc

    Klipschorn driver upgrades

    Perhaps not entirely impractical. Herman Kahn, one of the three people on whom Dr. Strangelove was based, thought that one day we might have a small remote we could keep clipped to our belts that would provide us with practically any kind of pleasure by direct neural input. It would simulate the sensation of having consumed alcohol, or drugs, but when ready to drive you would push a button and be sober! You also could satisfy hunger without eating (Kahn sorely needed this), to say nothing of a menu of sexual satisfaction. So, could a direct neural transfer of music or movies be far in the future?
  7. garyrc

    Klipschorn driver upgrades

    Unlike some, I like the K77 tweeter in any of its square magnet configurations (M or F) and even one old round magnet pair I have is pretty good. They sound rich and sparkling. Opinions vary! Al K. thinks the K77 is good, and the last thing on a Khorn to replace. He thinks the K400/K401 midrange horn would be the first thing to replace. He believes the midrange driver [K55 series] is O.K. I have not heard ALK 's or Bob's stuff. I have heard several good and a few not so good comments about many of the drivers and horns available, but haven't kept track, because I am satisfied by the stock upgrade from Klipsch I use, the AK4. Some of the variation in comments may -- conceivably -- reduce to the sensitivity of each unit, compared to the speaker system it is being put into. Level controls may be needed in some cases??? See prior posts about "upgrades" On 3/14/2019 at 11:50 AM, dtel said: About the only thing that bothers them [Klipsch] a little is when people start changing parts and automatically call it an upgrade because it sounds different.
  8. garyrc

    New speakers

    Welcome to the forum! I can't believe we let 9 days go by before anyone answered you! The Klipsches are more sensitive ("efficient"). It will be like exchanging your amplifier for one of 4 times the power. Even so, some B & Ws are "voiced" to give you more bass proportionally (but I don't know about the Matrix 805). The Klipsches will probably be more "up-front." Place them near a wall for boundary gain, but don't block the port. Give yourself time to vary the positioning of both the speakers and your main listening position. Allow time for speaker break-in. This is a controversial subject; estimates of the time it takes varies from 0 ("it's hogwash") to hundreds of hours of playing music. My take: Klipsch speakers I've had seem to sound better after about 1 or 2 long weekends of constant (or at least repeated) use. Start at a relatively low or low-medium volume at first, then louder later. Turn up the bass control (if any) a little if you need to, or add a good subwoofer, but one that can keep up with your Klipsches. What kind of amplifier or AVR do you have? Good Luck!
  9. garyrc

    Good movie/scene to test surround sound with?

    Spoiler alert! Near the beginning of The Grey there is a plane crash from the passengers' point of view. We only have 5.1, with the surround speakers somewhat behind our heads, rather than directly to the sides as some people do. This creates a better sound image in our room: During that scene there is sound all around us, with the kind of detail we might expect from many more channels, rather than 5.1. There were a minimum of 3 phantom channels down each side of the room, between the Right Front and the Surround Right, and Left Front and Surround Left, about 2 phantoms in the back of the room, as well as the usual 7 or so across the front of the room. So, counting physical + phantom, there were about 15 sound loci. There was even a suggestion of up and down, mostly up (all of out speakers have tweeters slightly above ear level). It sounded like we were surrounded by metallic walls, ceiling and floor which were breaking apart. So far, no other movie has provided such a convincing illusion in our room. Holding the room and seating constant, the most important factor in providing how good the surround is would be how it is recorded, IMO. Some recordists and mixers take great pains to make sure it's good, others don't seem to care. Others will suggest films with good surround treatment of music. Amadeus, Shakespeare in Love, Bohemian Rhapsody, the first crowd sounds at the very beginning of A Star is Born (2018) come to mind. There are a few other things that may be different about our set-up. Because we have Klipschorns, the Right Front and Left Front speakers are placed in the corners, as opposed to the way they are shown in the diagram. The Klipschorns are 13.5 feet apart, tweeter to tweeter (16.75 feet wide, sidewall to sidewall). The front soundstage is a little wider, partly due to the surrounds and the Klipschorns painting the side walls with sound (sometimes). We sit about 12 feet from the center speaker, making the sound field just about 60 degrees wide. The 13.5 width doesn't conflict with the visual image width, because our projection screen is 130" wide ('scope 2.35:1). The center speaker (a modified Belle Klipsch) has had its distance electronically adjusted to the same distance as the Klipschorns by Audyssey (which does that in terms of time of arrival, down to 0.1 foot). The tweeters of the surrounds are a few inches higher than the front tweeters.
  10. That bothers me, too. Changes are fine, but it is too easy for a reader to infer that some speakers are badly in need of an upgrade, because "upgrade" is the word that is often used by DIY folk when making changes. There was a discussion on another forum about whether the Klipschorn could still be considered a good speaker. The majority said yes, but a number said something to the effect that it must be bad because of all the "upgrades" people install. As our Queen Emeritus once said, Klipsch has the measurement facilities, including the revolving door anechoic chamber, etc. I'm not denying that some of the changes might be an improvement; Klipsch themselves has made at least 12 changes in the Khorn from 1963 on (by my count), including one in the last few months. That would be an average of one change every 4.7 years, although they often came in clusters. A somewhat similar thing happens in home remodeling. Too often people are merely conforming to whatever the newly touted style is, then calling it an upgrade (light colored kitchen cabinets, open plan design, white rugs, blindingly white interiors, etc.).
  11. garyrc

    Smallish Room Update-Klipschorns

    Crossovers The matching of the crossover to the particular drivers may be important. For instance, the K-55 midrange has gone through a model V, a V with a different phase plug, an M and an X. There were several woofers over the years (the Klipschorn's bass bin and folded bass horn reduced distortion they all would have had in a lesser bass bin design). Klipsch crossovers (Klipsch called them "balancing networks") have some, presumably gentle, EQ (Roy Delgado, Klipsch engineer, said he could not remember any balancing networks that did not have some EQ). If the EQ was applied to address characteristics of a given driver, it seems to me you would want a crossover with that particular EQ. Elevation/pavers Klipschorns are designed to use the floor reflection as part of the bass loading, and PWK did not like speakers elevated off the floor. BUT, you don't want them wet! Has that room ever flooded? Are you thinking of elevating the Khorns by the height of just 1 paver thickness? You could try comparing the bass and the bass--treble balance with and without. If you must elevate, something that does not make any cavities under the Khorns (like pavers rather than dolly/wheels) would be better, particularly where the two side facing grilles are, and across the front. The Khorns must be pushed all the way into the corners, and "sealed" into it. Some people use pipe insulation (foam -- is closed celled foam available?). An Abstract PWK wrote : Good audio sound quality in stereophonic reproduction may be summarized in the "eight cardinal points of loudspeakers," which are: 1) minimal distortion, 2) optimum size, 3) avoidance of rattles, 4) avoidance of shadows, 5) avoidance of cavities, 6) wide spacing, 7) proper number, and 😎 toe-in.
  12. Since I posted here a couple of years ago, I've discovered "PL II." A friend recommended it for turning 2 channel into 5.1. My initial reaction was, "No, not more processing!" But it turns out that it is pretty good with some recordings, better than "Multichannel Stereo." Of course, if a recording is made in SACD 4, 5, or 5.1 channels, most AVRs and AVPs will go directly to "Multi channel In," which is even better.
  13. garyrc

    Smallish Room for Klipschorns?!

    I have had them in a room that small, also. I agree with Mallette; try them on the 14 foot side. You might want to put a thick curtain over the sliding glass doors, and an area rug on the tile floor in front of the Khorns. It is good that the ceiling is high, Klipschorns prefer that. Klipsch says "at least 8.5 feet high," but more is better, IMO. The only problem I'm aware of is that the sweet spot may only be about 1 1/2 seats wide, if you require good imaging. Other aspects of the sweet spot my be wider (e.g., tonal balance, etc.). You probably will be able to futz around with home made room treatments and furniture, and get the sound you want. Don't over deaden the room. I like putting some diffusers in, and keep absorbers to a minimum. Diffusers may (or may not) make the room sound bigger. They can be plain: Or fancy: Or both. Some people like Polycylindrical diffusers. They are relatively easy to make (compared to the above). See Artto's Klipschorn room. https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/forum/32-architectural/ Shelves (probably not book cases because of closed ends) with lots of vases, art objects, and artifacts on them can be diffusive. What kind of electronics do you have? Do you have tone controls? Audyssey? It is possible that none of this is necessary. Listen for prolonged periods first.
  14. garyrc

    The Compression War rages on

    Kick drum is very real sounding in both of these films (as seen/heard in our HT on Blu-ray). From the very soft, 360 degree (with only 5.1) crowd sounds at the very beginning of A Star is Born to the full tilt kick drum and other instruments during the first song was an incredible range -- I should have measured it. Jersey Boys had pretty good sound, as well. For fans of percussive sound there is the bleacher stomping at the beginning of The Greatest Showman, Blu-ray. "I often find music in the very heart of noise" -- George Gershwin I don't think they screw around with movies on Blu as much as they do on music only CDs or even a few SACDs. But with a little bit of luck ... I'm listening to Mahler's 2ond on SACD Channel Classics right now. IMO, this was not compressed or screwed around with, unless they shaved off a little bass during some climaxes.
  15. Those of us who have played in orchestras or acoustic bands may be biased in favor of sound systems that sound like the actual instruments up fairly close. We have often preferred horn loaded Klipsch, JBLs, Altec (in the old days), and other fully horn loaded or partly horn loaded speakers. A notable exception is that several violinists I knew preferred Bozak 3 ways (back in the day). This was not true of those who played cello, or string bass. On the string thing, the best reproduction of massed strings I've heard was with the fully horn loaded JBL speakers in this 70mm 6 channel stereo theater, with sound system designed by Ampex. The texture of the massed strings came through better than ever with at least 3 of the films shown there. A friend who noticed the texture of the massed strings, said something like, "Here I thought that sound was made only by high school orchestras" (the only ones he had heard live). My friends & I habitually sat in about the 9th, 10th, or 11th row (about half-way down in this section), dead center. When the system was needlessly replaced later, the sound approached knife in the ear, and the bass was a lot less clear and tight.