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garyrc

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About garyrc

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  • Location
    The Milky Way
  • Interests
    Music, audio, film, psychology, psychology of film, philosophy, religion, history, mythology, audio electromechanical mythology.
  • My System
    Main room: 2- 1982 Klipschorns with K-401 fiberglass mid horn upgrade (1987), and AK-4 Klipschorn stock upgrade (2006), Modified Belle Klipsch (2005) center channel with K401 horn in an enlarged hi hat, flush mounted, behind AT wall fabric, buried in the wall between flanking Khorns, 2 NAD C- 272 ss 150 wpc stereo power amps, Marantz AV7005 AV preamp/processor, Heresy II surround speakers driven by 1/2 NAD C-272 and a Yamaha 135 wt amp, NAD C-542 CD player, OPPO BDP-93 CD/SACD/DVD/Blu-ray player, Klipsch RSW-15 subwoofer, for movies only, Panasonic projector, 130" true width 2.35:1 projection screen (141.3" diagonal).

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  1. There is a misconception here. The power handling figure is 150 watts. Although some dealers, and the occasional company rep, will give you a "rule of the thumb" saying the amplifier should have a continuous power output equal to the power handling of the speaker -- or lower --or higher, this notion is untrue. The actual sensitivity (sometimes called "efficiency") of the RP 280 is 2 dB HIGHER than that of the RP 160, so the RP 280 needs LESS power from the amp, and with your Yamaha, the RP 280 will be 2 dB louder, given the same output from the amp. So, the Yamaha is powerful enough, and then some. If the Yamaha is working well, it should be the last thing you replace. P.S. When Paul W. Klipsch was asked what the power handling figures in speaker specs meant, he said, "Probably not a lot." It's a convention to include it.
  2. Trombones sound especially fantastic on some Klipsch, including my Klipsch (see signature, below). Trombones are difficult to reproduce on some conventional, non-horn speakers.
  3. I always hated drive-ins. Lousy sound. Dirty windshields. Nearby, steamed up, rocking cars were distracting. Once the Victorian Age was over (c. 1965), anything that could be done in a car could be done better in the spare room in the parents' basement. I couldn't believe a few misguided folk I knew saw the likes of Ben-Hur, Around the World in 80 Days (1956 version, in Todd-AO), Lawrence of Arabia, and, a few years later, 2001: A Space Odyssey in drive-ins, while I saw them in Glorious 70mm and 6 channel stereophonic sound.
  4. Get a great subwoofer. For main speakers, I'd consider, in order of preference, most preferred at the top: Klipsch Jubilee for L and R, and if you are going to get an acoustically transparent front projection screen (eventually) and projector, then Jubilee for center, also. Advantages: Very low modulation distortion, extraordinary dynamics. Klipschorns (preferably the new one, AK6) for L and R, with La Scala AL5 for Center. Advantages: Very low modulation distortion, extraordinary dynamics. Forte III for L,R,C OR RF 7 III
  5. Yes, but ... If the same signal is sent to two identical speakers, through each of the channels of a 2 channel stereo system, the SPL should be 3 dB higher than with just one speaker connected, unless there is significant phase cancellation, or the positions of the speakers are dissimilar. It's good not to depend on this. Lets say one desires a 110 db peak from simultaneously struck bass drum, timpani, tom-tom and tam-tam, and that a single channel of the sound system is reliably 1 dB below clipping with one speaker connected. If the recording was made with those percussion instruments dead center, at the rear of the orchestra (a frequent arrangement), adding an identical second channel should increase the SPL by about 3 dB, providing additional headroom, since the burden of reproducing them would be divided equally between the channels. But if all those percussion instruments were all the way over to one side (as they were in an orchestra I once played in), the second channel would not be doing full duty, so the SPL would not gain a full 3 dB.
  6. Your receiver is capable of such performance in a room your size, with your Klipsches, providing you don't turn the bass way up to make up for your speakers not having enough fullness for orchestral music. The easiest way to handle this is to have a good subwoofer, which can be turned up a bit, if necessary. With the bass at the Flat, straight up, or neutral position, in your room, at your likely listening distance, your RP160s need a little less than 70 watts per channel to produce 105 dB, the peak level THX says you need. Since this peak power is only needed for an instant at a time (usually measured in milliseconds), a good receiver considerably less powerful than yours could produce those 105 dB pulses. A good, full, robust, convincing, loud (ff) level is about 85 to 95 dB, which would take less than 20 watts, with your full 80 watts per channel available for the occasional big peak of 105 dB.
  7. I use Klipschorns, a Belle Klipsch center, with a subwoofer (Klipsh RSW15) with movies and music. The Klipschorns alone, with the bass drum, timpani, and tam-tam in Fanfare for the Common Man will flap my pants legs at 13 feet away (in a 4,000 + cu. ft. room) and throw my work table out of square for just a moment (not kidding). That is at an expenditure of about 25 watts per channel and about 112 dB SPL (just on the beats) at the listening position. The Klipschorns alone (with Audyssey Flat), measured with REW and a calibrated mic, cross the 0 line at 33 Hz, then roll off to - 8dB at 23 Hz, below which the trace disappears. Crossing over the Khorns to the subwoofer can add considerable deep bass volume, but not much range. The subwoofer curve is very much like the Khorn curve, except the sub extends (weakly) to 16 Hz, instead of 23 Hz. I use the sub for movies because I don't want to risk the Khorns under the barrage of extreme movie LFE. I also use the sub for music, most of the time, but there is a trade off. The Khorns are more precise, tight and clean down to, maybe, 30 -35 Hz. If you get smooth response down to that point with your Khorns, I'd recommend crossing over to the sub at about 40 Hz, but , for movies, set the LPF for LFE at the usual 120 Hz, or 80 Hz.
  8. @Man in the Box & @wvu80 This may say it all: Or, nearly all. (wvu80, it's nice to have agreement, isn't it?) In this case, my thinking, or lack of it, was heavily influenced by Man in the Box having only $1,000 to spend. Either the Yamaha or the subwoofer could be set so the subwoofer could come in as high as 120 Hz -- I hope -- if his 6.5" woofers act like 6.5" woofers (i.e., severe roll off under 120 or 100 Hz). Klipsch may have been able to work some minor magic with the rear porting etc. As you know, if he could put the speakers very near a wall, without blocking the port, the bass extension and amplitude could be increased. But, I can see going the other way, too, getting some good floor standers, and no sub, or saving up and getting both. Most orchestral music (my favorite) tends to roll off as high as 35 Hz (unless there is an organ), but bass power from about 120 down is needed badly, for fullness and balance. Pop is much easier to build a relatively inexpensive sound system for. Rock/metal needs more in the basement because of bass guitar, etc, but the orchestra is king! Paul W. Klipsch said that to get the "blood stirring" level of a full symphony orchestra, you need very brief peaks of 115 dB at your ears (much of that in brass and percussion, and percussion, including piano, needs lots of bass, as Yamaha well knows, since they own ). Think of a Tchaikovsky or Rachmaninoff piano concerto, or the drums in Fanfare for the Common Man or The Firebird). Here is a portrait of a kick drum. Notice the 31 Hz part of the boom lasts the longest and goes as loud as any of them. A big bass drum like in an orchestra (like the Telarc bass drum), since it is bigger, would be deeper. Tympani are all over the place. Paul's 115 dB figure probably came out of his measurement of such orchestras while recording them. As someone on the forum pointed out to me recently, we have a lot more information about simulating those high levels than was available in Paul's day. THX now says that in a smallish room (a big home room) we can get along with 5 to 10 dB less, due to the nearfield reflections of nearby walls, ceiling and floor, even when we try to control them. The 4" thick professional Sonex anechoic wedge foam pad I used to have did a good job with the upper frequencies, but had a cut-off at 400 Hz, which is 2 to 4 octaves above serious bass. I assume the Yamaha has a subwoofer output. The sub should have its owm amp, built in. The one Yamaha power spec that counts is the 80 watts per channel at low distortion, 20 to 20,000Hz. The other power specs (at least on the page I saw) are pretty meaningless (e.g., looking at the power available at 1K Hz). Virtually all AVR, car, and inexpensive home stereo manufacturers have adopted this basic dishonesty. The same manufacturers are far more objective in rating their separate power amps and preamps. But I think we can trust the 20 to 20K figure of 80 w.p.c. when running 2 channels. That will give you, conservatively, the 105 dB peak power the music & movie industries bank on, at any conceivable listening position in your small room. With speakers less sensitive than Klipsch, you might not get near that. If you get a subwoofer, and you plan to run the occasional movie, it will need to be able to put out 110 dB peaks, or so, at listening position. Lots of good luck!
  9. Weird. Shooting in the dark: If the protection circuit is being tripped it sounds like something is wrong before or at the outputs to the speakers. Look for shorts. Check the speaker ends of the cables, too. Look for some unobtrusive level controls. They are usually very small diameter knurled knobs that are hard to grip and adjust. I assume this happens on all inputs, right? Did your old Denon have Audyssey? Was it the same flavor? I.e., XT, XT32, etc. Most people have a few bass peaks thay have grown fond of, that Audyssey handily removes. Almost all Audyssey users turn up their bass, via the sub gain control on the sub itself (the one in the receiver is usually prone to line driver problems if you turn it up past 0, or even lower). If you are not using DEQ, then some bass controls will be available to you (for LF & RF only). You should re set your volume control (see the Manual) so it is "upside down" in the way it reads, so "0" is very loud, and "-25" is pretty soft. That way, if you have set up Audyssey correctly, "0" will be Reference Level, with peaks at about 105 dB through each main speaker, and 115 dB through the subwoofer. This meets Dolby/THX/professional standards -- it is LOUD. For ordinary movie playing in the average size home theater or listening room, THX recommends trying 5 to 7 dB below Reference, i.e., at -5, -6, or -7 on the main volume control. If you don't get loud sound at these levels, something is very wrong. Did you get it through a local dealer? Even if it was mail order, they should be willing to talk to you on the phone about it, and help you troubleshoot. I love Audyssey, but have found that most manuals suck regarding how to best set it up. For future reference: "Audyssey FAQ Linked Here"
  10. A Klipsch engineer once wrote on the forum: The sensitivity figures given on the spec sheet refer to the equivalent sensitivity of the speaker in an average listening room. An asterisk now informs consumers of this on most spec sheets. I think this must be some kind of crunched average, because the location in the room makes a difference, and moving the speaker from out in the room to snug in a corner increases the output by 6 dB. The engineer went on to say to get anechoic sensitivity, subtract 4 dB from the spec sheet figure. IMO, measuring sensitivity at 1K Hz only would be misleading and useless. I believe Klipsch measures across the full advertised bandwidth of the speaker.
  11. So they would be high enough for your cat to want to sit on.
  12. @bert9576, if that is an AV receiver meant for home theater, and if you are not using a subwoofer, make sure that the receiver is not set for "small" speakers, or it will deprive your Cornwalls of deep bass.
  13. I, for one, remember it from the day (1970, Alexandria Theater, San Francisco, with Annie). I love that scene. That kind of thing happens in real life; I always wondered if the writers were familiar with Paul Goodman's diary, Five Years - Notes During a Worthless Time, (published before Five Easy Pieces) in which Goodman, a New Yorker, orders a root beer float somewhere in the Deep South. The guy behind the counter said, "We don't make those." Goodman orders a bowl of vanilla ice cream and a glass of root beer. Just as he is spooning the ice cream into the root beer glass, it is snatched away. The guy says, "I know what you're doing, you Northerners." (or was it " you Yankees?").
  14. How small is small, in cu.ft.? How far away do you sit? How loud do you like it, in dB, on loud passages? Is your room live, medium, or dead? Klipsch's sensitivity ratings are true in an average room with typical room and boundary gain (i.e., not out in the middle of the room, but very near a solid wall, or in a corner). To convert to an anechoic rating, subtract 4 dB from the published rating; at least that's what a Klipsch employee said on the forum (about a year ago?). Inside, in a room (forget about outside) each doubling of distance will cost you about 3 dB or so (not 6 dB!) this was a figure arrived at by PWK. It is literally true (on the nose!) in my room. So, if the RP 280Fs are against (or almost against) a wall, that would give you 98 dB at 1M at 1W, 95 dB at 2 M at 1W, and 92 dB at 4 M (about 13 feet) at 1W ... going back up, at 2 watts, we would have 95 dB/2W/at 13 feet. That's enough for some people, but not others. Klipsch considers that to be at the "loud" but not "very loud" level (Don Keele Jr., Dope from Hope V16, no1, January 1977). As long as everything (all amplification) is working correctly, you would still get 1.5 watts more headroom. Someone else may be able to tell you whether the RP 280F has any impedance anomalies that would be a problem. I have noticed that some Klipsch speakers sound better with more power than they need, but there were covariates I didn't know how to account for.
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