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Arizona Dan

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  1. Thanks capo72, Marvel, geezin, Parlophone1, Tom Preston, Islander, Chris A, Coytee, Randy H, West Coast drums and Chief Bonehead for all of your support and help. Stay curious is geat advice. I know I have not reached the limit of what is possible in my room and I plan on keeping the experiments going. I first started in the early 70's when I got a 4 channel receiver for Christmas. I remember hanging the four speakers in the corners of my bedroom. I thought I was in heaven. In 1976 I bought a Kenwood reciever, technics turntable and a pair of Electro-Voice loudspeakers. I still use the Kenwood reciever to listen to the radio. In the early 2000's I bought Bose Lifestyle 12s. That was a mistake. A few years later I bought a used pair of Vandersteen 3a loudspeakers from Audio Advice in Raleigh. Very nice sounding and I still have them. Around 2012 I bought a used pair of Klipschorns. I am still enjoying them very much. As you can see from above pictures I am doing a little experimenting and still staying curious. I plan on using DSP, but I have a few questions and will need some help. Dan
  2. The sound is fantastic. They image very well. Voices are excellent. They play all types of music: rock n roll, organ, jazz, large and small orchestra, movies. They do have a problem with some acoustic bass. I'm sure the acoustic bass issue could be fixed, but I'm not ready to tackle it yet. My room is 19' wide by 13' deep. With the Klipschorns 19' apart and sitting close to the back wall, I noticed that the central image was not very strong. Then I experimented with moving the speakers closer and away from the wall. I was able to get a good central image and the bass was still pretty good. Though I knew I had lost some bass with the Klipschorn being away from the wall. The next experiment I did was to seperate the top part of the Klipschorn from the bottom. I placed the top part on a small table and put the bass part back in the corner. I knew that the timing would be messed up, but it was a free experiment. This allowed me to move the top part around to find the best location for imaging. If you can find the magic spot, they can image great. My next step was to build what I am now using. Dan
  3. This is the inspiration for my design - The PureAudioProject Trio 15. The upper and lower drivers that I will be using were made by Adire Audio about 10-15 years ago. They are 18 inch drivers called Avalanche 18. The horn will be the best horn that I know about - Klipsch K 402. My starting point is to attempt to make a similar horn out of wood, and then see how it goes. Dan
  4. Thanks Randy I already have a pair of Klipschorns. The middle section of the above is the top half of my Klipschorns. I love the Klipschorns. Dan
  5. Here are some photos of what I am working on. It is open baffle bass with Klipschorn top end. One may ask why is he doing this. The simple answer is that I already had the 4 18" drivers and the subwoofer crossover and some plywood pieces. All I had to buy was some 2X 4s and some screws. I was able to try an open baffle design for less than $100. You may notice the tweeter location. I wanted to see if physically centering it on the midrange horn made any difference. I know I am making the time alignment worse, but only by a few more inches. So, how does it sound. Great. For something that I just threw together, I am very pleased. Next step is to try a differnt horn. Why?? Good question. The current Klipschorn horn sounds great. I am very happy with it. I even ask myself why go to the trouble of trying something else. Basically, I am retired and need something to do. Why not try to make the design as best as I can (without spending too much). I need to buy a microphone and measure the response. I am holding off because I have no way to alter the response if it looks bad (which it probably will). I plan on buying some sort of digital crossover (mini dsp or something), but I am still in the planning stage. Enjoy the pictures. Please don't laugh at the design. OK - go ahead and laugh. It looks like a Frankenstein. Dan
  6. Thank you very much Chris. I have been wanting to build a K 402 horn for a long time. I'll get started soon. Just wondering, is it wrong or in bad taste to discuss building a Klipsch product on a Klipsch site? I don't want to do anything wrong. Dan
  7. Thanks to everyone for helping me. I suspected that the dimensions included the flange, but thought I should verify. I am going to attempt to make a horn similar to a K 402. I have no doubt it will not perform like the real thing. It will probably be ugly and kinda rough, but what the heck, only cost a sheet of plywood. Chris, thank you very much for the information. I had the shape of the K 402 backwards. I thought the shape from the entrance (small end) to about 2/3 of the length was Tractrix and the exit was straight. Just to make sure I understand, I use the tractrix calculator using the mouth (large end) dimensions from the K 402. Then draw a straight line like you show in red above to the mouth using the lengths that you provided. I'll try to post some pictures tomorrow of what I am doing. I was wondering why the length of the K 402 is shorter than the Klipschorn midrange horn. Does anyone know if the K 402 is available for purchase? I thought it use to be available but no longer is. Dan
  8. I have a question on dimensions of the K 402 horn. The data sheet shows the width = 39.5 inch and the height = 25.5 inch. Does this include the width of the flange? If I were entering data into a tractrix calculator, would I use these dimensions or subtract the width of each flange? I would like to thank everyone who posts on this site. I read it and enjoy it quite often. I do not post often, but I get a lot of joy from this site. Dan
  9. Your right. It is easy to get off track. I started to take a bunch of sound pressure measurements. Then after reading Rod's approach, I figured out a real easy method. Besides, can bad capacitors, diaphragms, etc. emmulate the issue that I had? Beats me, but I am enjoying the Khorns more than ever. Dan
  10. I thought I would report back about the test I have done to figure out if any of the drivers on my Khorn are out of phase. It turns out that the bass driver on the left channel was out of phase. It was really easy to figure it out. Thanks to Speakerfritz, LarryC and Rod. Here are the steps that I took. 1. Verify that left and right signal from amplifier is in phase. See above post. 2. Disconnect left and right midrange and tweeter. 3. Position Khorns in corner. 4. Play stereophile Test CD2 Track 2 phase test of Fender bass guitar. It was obvious that the out of phase test was more focused than the in phase test. 5. Reverse leads to bass driver on left loudspeaker. I just guessed about which one to reverse, but the left loudspeaker did not have the original speaker wire and the right loudspeaker did. 6. Repeat step 4. This time the bass guitar is focused on the in phase test and out of focus on the out of phase test. 7. Connect both midrange drivers and repeat step 4. The results are good. 8. Play phase tests from these files. Voice in-Phase [Technical Track] Voice Out-Of-Phase [Technical Track] The results were good. 9. Just to be thorough, I disconnected both woofers and repeated steps 4 and 8 with just the midrange. The results were good. 10. Next, I disconnected left and right woofer and midrange. Reconnected left and right tweeter. 11. Played a test tone to verify that both tweeters were working. Results, both tweeters work. 12. Next, I played phase test from these files. HF 7KHz - oo & Phase Check This test is not as obvious as the bass and midrange test. I am really not sure if I could identify if the phase is correct. It sounded O.K. so I am going to leave the tweeters alone. Besides, the tweeters have a red dot on them from the factory. Per the red dot and the red labels on the crossover, I decided to leave the tweeters alone. 13. That's all there is to it. I sure enjoy this forum and learn a lot by reading it. Thanks again for everyone's help. Please feel free to add comments. Dan
  11. Phase check. This is what I did so far. 1. Disconnect speaker leads from Klipschorn. 2. Connect speaker leads to two 18 inch subwoofer drivers. Raw drivers - no box, no crossover, no nothing. 3. Run 1 Hz signal to both speakers. I was able to watch and feel both drivers moving up and down in phase. 4. Reverse phase in the software. Repeat test. Yep - Both drivers are moving out of phase. 5. Disconnect subwoofer drivers and reconnect Klipschorn. What have I learned? I learned that the output of my system is in phase - from software, soundcard, A/D converter, preamp, amp, and cables. At least the left and right are in phase with each other. Next step - not sure. I will let you know how it goes. Dan
  12. Thank you very much for the link. I read the post and downloaded the Audio SweepGen software. I drug out two subwoofer drivers that were in the closet and will use them to determine if my stereo outputs are in phase. I will hook up one driver each to left and right channel. Then I will play a 1 hz signal. Hopefully, I will be able to watch the drivers and determine visually if they are in phase or not. Then I will follow the same path from the link above. Stay tuned. Dan
  13. What is the cost for a new pair of Type AA (or Type A) crossovers? Dan
  14. Hi I read this forum quite often, but have only posted to it a few times. I am hoping someone could help me with a phase issue that I have with my loudspeakers. I used these two files to check the phase of my Klipschorn, but the results are backwards. I have better focus when I use the out of phase test. Voice in-Phase [Technical Track] The logical conclusion is that I have a speaker wire connected backwards either at the loudspeaker or at the amp. I checked both and they seem O.K. Next, I bypassed the crossover and ran the midrange full range. The results were better. The image was more tightly focused with the in phase test. Now what? These tests lead me to think that the crossover is causing the phase issue. Is this even possible? 1. Could someone verify that the files above are labeled correctly? They probably are, but this seems like it should be the first step. 2. My crossovers are original from the early 1980s. Could the old capacitors cause a phase issue (any EEs out there)? 3. Could this be an acoustic issue. I am in the process of building polycylindrical diffusers for the front wall, but so far only the right side of the wall is covered with diffusers. Could this cause a phase issue? 4. A component or cable could be wired backwards - How could I verify that the entire chain of componets do not have a wiring issue. I know you can test loudspeakers using a battery, but this would be difficult with Klipschorns since you cannot see the drivers. How about simulating the DC battery test with a DC signal played from a file through my computer. I could turn the preamp volume really low and play a DC signal while the speaker leads are connected to a driver that I could see. The cone should move in the same direction for both the left and right speakers. I do have 18 inch drivers that I could use for this test. I sure would hate to ruin them though. What do you think? Thanks in advance for any advice. Dan
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