Johnny's Jill
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Posts posted by Johnny's Jill
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This blanket statement is not accurate, Dave and ALK did extensive testing and posted results on their horns. Volti doesn't post graphs or specs, but Gregs products have an overall excellent following.The problem with updating these components is that most of the offerings you have mentioned are made by someone in his garage.
The craftsmanship may be good and the cosmetics may be fantastic. However, we typically know very little about the design, its goals, decisions etc. The problem becomes even trickier since little or no technical measurements are provided. Those that are provided are either very coarse, poorly done, or simply inadequate. The result is that the performance data is reduced to testimonials about how great they sound. In some cases, the testimonials are clearly cases of trumped up fiction.
In answer to your question, yes the crossover (balancing network) would most likely need to be changed, especially if you are changing to a 2 inch throated horn/driver.
Just as a note. If you do go with the aftermarket upgrades, you will probably lose in terms of aftermarket value. If they are simply re-freshing componets or doing slight mods, you can get your money back in the end. For the more elaborate modifications, you will not see much return on your investment, IMO.
Good luck,
-Tom
Furthermore, Daves horn are all computer cut (CNC). this tends to insure consistent results. http://mysite.verizon.net/res12il11/id101.html
As for return on your investment, this is true. But what percentage of people get 100% return on any Klipsch product?
Craig 73
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I have considerable respect for someone who does restorations as fine as greg but that respect was quickly negated by choosing to clone Klipsch products.
I still think gregs work is fantastic and hope to see an original design some day.
Craig
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3 way using the D-220 is going to offer some HF sparkle I dont think the 2 way is capable of. Personally I prefer 3way, but thought the eliptical with the fatal pro sounded great. I think I would still run it 3 way with my beymas but thats just me.
Craig 73
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That's sweet Carolina.
I heard gothovers 2 way Cornscala and love it, but Daves still tweaking. The Faital HF200 really delivers.
Craig 73
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JWC that is a great looking bass bin.
Nice...... Craig.
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I would never say it sounds bad, it sounds quite good to my ears! I'm sure PWK knew what he was doing!
Why would he purposely give us a bad horn as Al wants everyone to believe? Sound was his life / work.I am sure PWK wanted the best sound he could provide for the money. PWK was more than and engineer, he was also a gifted businessman. The K-400 dates back to the 50's or 60's, I would hope horn design and manufacturing has come along since the then. I am sure the only reason the K-400 still exists is the because it is the hertage sound. If horn design reached its apogee in the 60's we would all still be listening to metal exponential horns, if that's the case we may have been bettter off in the 50's with the wood horns.
bad horn as Al wants everyone to believe?
ALK's choice of words is not unlike the K-400 horn. Both can be improved upon.
Craig 73
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Welcome to the forums.
Craig.
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You can probably fix it with some 30 minute epoxy. Pictures would help.
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You may like the sound of the Crites woofers in your Lascala's they were just not for me. In point of fact I have never seen anyone else run into the same issues with the woofers that I did.No, no, my mind isn't made up at all! It might be better to get the original K-33s rebuilt. That's why I asking...I'd really like your input. I'd like BC to weigh in, too....it's a worthy subject, no?
I am certainly not going to argue or debate with Bob Crites. I have respect for him and the products and services he provides.
Craig
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Thanks for the correction Bob. Regaurdless of what I was told, the CW-1526 woofers I have now exhibit higher spl than my original K-33's.You were told wrong. The CW1526 is modeled after the earlier K-33E built before 1985. Main difference is that the later model K-33 has a resonate frequency of 34 hz, where the CW1526 has a resonate frequency of 26hz like the pre-1985 K-33E.
Bob Crites
Bob , this is not a shot at your product, and it maybe an isolated thing, but these woofers are fine in my Cornwalls however and not good in my Lascala's.
Enough about the woofers, Looks like his mind is made up to go with the CW1526 regaurdless.
Enjoy your Critescala's.[
]Craig
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Bob, wouldn't the horn play a role in the FR?I tried a crossover frequency of 500 and 600 on mine. FR looked a bit better at 500.
Bob Crites
Craig 73
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The Lascala bass is weak below 50hz, by replacing your bass driver with a higher SPL driver you are no only increasing spl at 50hz, but the frequencies to 400 or better. You'll see what I am talking about. You might prefer the Crites, but I would hold on to those k33s just in case. When I did the testing on the k-33's I have one rebuilt by Orange County Speaker, one original and a pair of Crites. The Rebuilt K33 was 1 db hotter than the O/E K-33 and the both of the Crites were nearly 3db hotter than the O/E. When I inquired about the additional spl I was told the Crites woofer was modeled after the Later model K-33 which is a bit hotter than the early k-33. This is a reasonable explanation, and accounts for what I was hearing.Bob's woofs spec out better than the Klipsch woofs,plus they go lower
They also have a bit higher SPL, which is perfect for Cornscala and I would reccomend them anyday for that application, however for Lascala's the woofers tend to steal the show, and the mids get buried in the background. I made the mistake of selling my Lascala's K-33s when I installed the CW1526s took me a while to find the originals to put back in.
The Crites tweeter is fine, a bit lower in spl than the o/e.
This is puzzling. If LSs are weak in the bass department, wouldn't a higher SPL woofer be a good thing in them? Or do they rattle the plywood?
Craig
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Bob's woofs spec out better than the Klipsch woofs,plus they go lower
They also have a bit higher SPL, which is perfect for Cornscala and I would reccomend them anyday for that application, however for Lascala's the woofers tend to steal the show, and the mids get buried in the background. I made the mistake of selling my Lascala's K-33s when I installed the CW1526s took me a while to find the originals to put back in.
The Crites tweeter is fine, a bit lower in spl than the o/e.
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If you are going to stick with the K-400 the A-4500 is somewhat better than the AA. If you were going to replace the the K-400 I would stick with the re-capped AA and spring for the ALK's when the $$ are available. The woofers eaten by rats or mice.....bummer, but unless they ate through the steel basket they can still be re-coned. I use Orange County Speaker to repair mine.Also, if going with the CT-125s, regardless of tractrix or 400, wouldn't that kind of necessitate the 4500 crossovers? Or is there some reason to keep the AAs?
The 4500 crossover necessitates the use of the CT-125 tweeter, not the other way around. You can certainly use Bobs tweeter with your AA's
Craig
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My preference would be to re-cone the K-33's, but you may like the Crites and his price is good.
Craig.
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Well, I think it more boils down to what type of sound someone likes. The K-400 is a little more in your face and a bit pinched down sounding compared to the tractrix horn I use but still sounds nice, very much the unique Klipsch sound to it. For those who like the more in your face sound, may like the K-400 better. I say this because about two years ago I had recommend to a friend who was building his speakers, he had the chance to buy some used wood tractrix horn or used K-400 horns. I convinced him more towards getting the wood tractrix horn. I heard later from his wife that he always sort of held a grudge towards me for that because he wanted a more forward in your face sound and I recommend getting the tractrix horn. He switched them out about a year later and liked the K-400 horn, she said he liked them much better for the more impact and in your face sound. Now I try to get someone to listen to both and make their own mind up. I always felt bad for steering him in the wrong direction he wanted to go in! Some of us like sound differently than others, so I try to keep that in mind.
It never crossed my mind that someone would actually prefer the pinced in your face sound. [:S]
Craig
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Just replacing the K-400 with a Fastrac and re-capping the crossovers would make a huge improvement. Replacing the woofers is a mistake unless you dont have the originals or yours are damaged.
The ALK's are especially good with solid state, you certainly dont need tubes to sound good with ALK's and a wood horn.
I need to put my ears on a Jubscala someday, still have not heard a 2 way that I liked. I am hoping daves new Cornscala 2way with a oval horn will be the one.
Craig.
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I just got a pair of Dave's (Gothover) 1 to 1.4 to 2 Inch driver adaptor for his Eliptrac 400 horn. This thing is a real piece of work! It's extremely clever but rather difficult to figure out without some head-scratching. It consists of four detachable segments.
I have seen this adapter as well, and is confusing to look at but, but at the same time is intuitive. The drawings will definately help.
Craig.
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dave this horn looks sweet. How does it sound?[
] just a joke.[]Craig 73
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Johnny5, I understand what you are saying but I have my Klipschorn's still original as Klipsch made them. Why, because they still sound very good to me and I listen to them from time to time.
Nothing wrong with that, and admittedly the K-400 is the Klipsch signature sound that brought Klipsh into the spotlight.
I have a good tractrix horn on my Cornscala that I do enjoy too but the K-400 is not as bad as Al always tries to make it out to be
Nice, and certainly no argument here.
To some the K-400 isn't the weakest link, and it's not a BAD headache maker as Al has said.
I still think the K-400 is the weakest link, but can sound good in its original form with some decent gear driving them, at moderate levels.
Anyone who wants to tweak and improve as they wish
Absolutely.
K-400 is not a bad horn to begin with!!!!
The K-400 certainly not the worst horn I have ever heard, and deserves credit and respect. I certainly would not call it junk, but would not use it either.
Craig
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Joe, in this situation where you got a great price on upgrades, you are making the right decision for yourself which is perfect.As far a the cost goes, I can do this upgrade with parts from a fellow forum member for the same price as upgrading the AK-2 crossovers to AK-3's.
Craig 73
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Joe, I dont have any issues with the modification path you have chosen. I was just trying to make the point: If you change the midhorn then you dont have to change the tweeter and crossover points, and in my opinion it will result in a greater improvment.Keep in mind I have 1984 models with the original crossovers (AK-2) with no upgrades. My original gameplan was to upgrade the crossovers with a kit from Crites. I have read a few post where folks suggest replacing the AK-2 instead of upgrading it. Cost is a factor. I don't have an unlimited budget to throw at this project.
I have read the K400 struggles from 4000hz to 6000hz. This being the case, It would appear to me that moving the crossover from 6K down to 4.5K would only improve this issue. My understanding is the stock K77 tweeters can't handle the lower frequency, therefore they are replaced with the CT125's.
I'm not saying I will never replace the K400's. I am one of those who don't think they sound bad. I may at some point decide to replace those horns. At least for now, this seems to be a logical way of upgrading the crossovers and improving at least some of the so called "bad" sound of the K400's.
As far a the cost goes, I can do this upgrade with parts from a fellow forum member for the same price as upgrading the AK-2 crossovers to AK-3's.
Joe
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True, the original Cornscala was a Cornwall with a K-400. Since the introduction of the original Cornscala / Crites test box, there have been so many revisions ie, Cornscala II Conrscala III Cornscala DBB etc, that the new meaing of Cornscala is literally" Cornwall with a big midhorn".....................................................I am sure the Altec will make a fine horn for Cornscala XIII.Lasset, welcome to the forum!
I don't know your answer but your question does make me smile a little. This is primarily because of the AK forum where I think I've seen more of this.
My understanding is the Cornscala is the 'best of both' coming from the bottom half of the Cornwall and the top half of the LaScala, hence its name. Throwing the Altec might make it sound superb (for all I know) but to me, is sort of like going to McDonalds to get an Egg McMuffin but... instead of bacon/egg on a muffin, I want it on a biscuit AND instead of egg, I want guacomole and instead of bacon, I want spam and instead of cheese, I want peanut butter.... and still call it a McMuffin.
Craig
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I wasn't able to locate the Autoformer thread, and it's not important, but it had some good info.
I thought ALK ran some simulations and Bob Crites has some input as well, was a good read.
Craig 73
Why would he purposely give us a bad horn as Al wants everyone to believe? Sound was his life / work.
]
] just a joke.[
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Koa Jube Clones even better than expected....
in Technical/Restorations
Posted
I wish I could have gone as well, I have been laid up for the last month+.
Beautiful spekers, and Dave tells me they sould as good as they look. He also told me about the mod, any progress?
Craig.