Crossman
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Posts posted by Crossman
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Sorry guys, but I'm confused again - too many replys to sort through with little coherence for my small brain. I would eventually like to buy into this but I really don't want to buy parts that don't work or having the hassle of sending parts back for replacement, or sending emails and making phone calls for tech support. I just want to buy it, install it, and hopefully enjoy it.
So........lets clear the fog - exactly which components does this V-Trac system require for optimal performance?
BMS 4592ND or BMS 4592ND MID?
Al Ks Universal network or some other?
I think we've safely established it needs separate tweeters, preferably Beyma CP25
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I found this comment in an old thread (Nov 11, 2005) by Al K
"I wouldn't try using my Universal netwrok on the BMS driver. There is too may difference between what that network was designed for and what the load presented by the BMS drivers would present. The impedance of the tweeter section of the BMS is 13.5 Ohms in parallel with 0.44 mHy. And the tweeter must be attenuated, not the squawker section. It's a bad idea.
The network I built to operate the two sections of the BMS was at 6000 Hz and is 2nd order on both filters. This provides a different insertion phase then my Universal which is 2nd and 3rd order. It will have 90 degrees more phse shift. It's total guess work how it would act on that driver!
Al K"He was referring to a BMS 4590. The only major difference between the 4590 and the 4592 is ceramic vs neodymium magnets. Does Al K still feel this way?
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The tops and bottoms are 3/4" plywood, the sides are 3/8" plywood.
The reason I am asking is: If I am reading your chart correctly on the Greg's Tractrix Calculator page of your website, you list the height of the horn as 2" to 9.25". If 9.25" is 9 1/4 inches and add to that 3/4" (or for the top thickness and 3/4" for the bottom thickness (- 1/16 to allow for the actual thickness of 3/4' plywood) then the total height for the flare end of the horn would be 10 3/4".
The space between the upper and lower panels of my horn bin are a tight 9 7/8" , making your horns a non-fit for my '74 Khorns.
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Sorry, I don't understand your question.
What thickness of plywood did you use to construct the V-Trac horns?
a. 1/4
b. 3/8
c. 1/2
d. 3/4
e. other
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What width plywood are you using? 14.33 inches of height leaves very little room at the top and bottom of my '74 Khorns for much more than 3/8" plywood and the top and bottom of the horns.
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Could I ask what scheme you used to utilize separate amps for the bass / other?
Do you use a preamp? are you connecting to the xover?
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Also, still amazed by what those stupid little cone feet do to the imaging
Cone feet? Could you explain?
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Why does the Khorn woofer face a piece of wood with a narrow slit? Wouldn't it be better if is was completely open?
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A crossover is just a dividing network and needs to provide the proper attenuation levels to "balance" the output of the drivers. The Type A is a simple electrical first order, and people use modified versions of that network to drive all kinds of things. I sure hope Al didn't say they're "not really crossovers", which would be an idiotic statement.
The BMS is a very well behaved driver, and would undoubtably sound very good with a low order filter and little if any correction.
I've been trying to follow the crossover theme in this post but remain somewhat confused. According to "some" the Khorn A or AA crossovers will not work with the BMS driver but I didn't perceive a definitive reason as to "why".
Dean, am I understanding you to say that the A or AA crossovers will work relatively well because I would like to take this upgrade in steps instead of one big commitment that I might regret.
Lets see: Horns - $799.00 + shipping / BMS Drivers - $967.00 / ALK Crossovers $540.00 + shipping. Then throw in some Beyma tweeters for $300.00 and before long we will be out of the chump change category. Don't get me wrong - I could and would slap down the cash today if I thought it would make a noticable improvement in the sound of my Khorns. However I can't afford the complete upgrade and a divorce at the same time.
Crossman
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Been useing 2" drivers for 40 years now,,, All that is left is a good quality horn like these.
Which 2" drivers (brand name) have you been using? Have you been using them on a Khorn and if so how did you modify and what type of crossover are you using?
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I see the wooden plates for the back/throat of the horn, but what exactly will you use to screw the driver to the horn and how will you attach it?
crossman
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Yes, I believe the woofer is 4 ohms. I visited Bob Crites a couple of weeks ago and he said something to the effect that the cornwall had one of the best bass responses of the Klipsch line. There was an entry on this site where he said that his cornscala bass bin was 24x24x24. I built mine that size. At the moment I'm satisfied with it.
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Did you buy it off Ebay from the guy who is selling sub-12 plate amps for $79.00?
I bought one of those - built a cornscala bass bin - put in a Klipsch 15" woofer and it makes my Khorns sound so much fuller with the added bass.
The woofer is 4 ohms (I think) and it works just fine (I think)
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There is a SPLHCB picture disk for sale on ebay now.
Item number: 320343617459
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What 3 way Klipsch speaker are you thinking of abusing?
I have just been reading/studying/learning and was just curious as to the purpose of these boxes as opposed to an in-speaker crossover.
Since coming to this forum after buying and restoring a pair of 74 Khorns, I have been interested in crossover design and function since it seems to be the key to good speaker sound. It seems that getting elementary information is somewhat difficult from the hubris and commercialization of people who understand crossovers. However, I'll keep poking and prodding until I eventually satisfy myself or lose interest due to apathy.
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Can a commercial crossover such as the Samson S be used to drive a 3-way Klipsch speaker?
If not then exactly what are the purpose of these types of crossover boxes?
The S 3-way is a versatile 2-way, 3-way and 4-way crossover with a difference. First, it's a perfect 2-way or 3-way stereo crossover. But its mode is also switchable for use as a 4-way mono crossover. The input gain features +/-12dB range with LED metering and Peak indicators. S 3-way features Low, Mid, and High Frequency outputs with +/-6dB of gain control. Each output incorporates a Mute switch for monitoring the individual frequency bands and a phase switch to invert the phase of the output.
The first crossover point is sweepable in 3 ranges: from 35Hz to 800Hz, from 350Hz to 8kHz with the 10X-Multiplier switch engaged, or from 16Hz to 400Hz in 4 way low-mode. The second crossover point is sweepable from 175Hz to 4kHz or from 350Hz to 8kHz depending on the setting of the mode switch.
The S 3-way also includes a Delay section with up to 2ms of delay to time-align low frequency outputs for improved phase response of any PA system. The S 3-way's global section features a variable threshold Limiter, a CD function (for constant directivity horns) and High Pass Filter.
Features
Full-featured, Stereo 3-way, Mono 4-way Electronic Crossover
Phase Switches Invert the Phase of Individual Outputs
Adjustable Low Frequency Delay for Time Aligning Speaker Stacks
Mode Indicator LEDs Provide Quick Visual Display of Operating Mode
4-Segment LED Input Meter Allows Easy Gain Adjustment
Precision Linkwitz-Riley, 24 dB/Octave filters
Output Mute Switches for All Individual Outputs
Constant Directivity EQ Smoothes the Response of CD Horns Above 3.5 kHz
Peak Limiter with Independent Threshold Control and Peak LED -
I have a pair of working 15" woofers that I replaced from my Khorns and was considering using them for some useful purpose since it probably wouldn't be worth the effort to attempt to sell them.
Would it be feasible to build a cornwall / cornscale type bass bin bottom, wire it with a low-pass crossover or maybe a 3-way crossover and only use the bass connection. Then use it as a center channel or power it from the subwoofer channel of a 7.1 or 5.1 receiver to increase bass presence?
Thanks, Crossman
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Allow me to re-ask the question - Do you recommend enclosing the backs of the Khorns whether they are in real corners / false corners / otherwise?
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Are you saying that inclosing the backs is an improvement even if they are put in corners or have false walls? (NOTE: I'm only asking because I am interested in getting the best sound that is possible for my situation)OK, there is no way if you enclose the backs properly with no air leaking and have braces, just to make for sure the bass comes out through the sides would it be less... That is BS! Sorry, but true..You must have done it wrong! Forgotten the top or bottom areas or not sealed at all.
Yes, you still need a corner.. By no means does this mean you can now put them 3 feet out into your room.
Crossman
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I did this to mine when I had them, and to me the bass was diminished. I was also told afterwards that you still need the false corner for proper wave propogation, I don't know if taht is correct or not, but I do know that when I just sealed them, the bass was lacking
I will have to agree with you. I devised a temporary enclosure and they sounded better from the back than the front. I am currently in the process of making one false corner (I have one natural corner)
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I would go with contact cement as well. No clamping/holding necessary. Holds forever.
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I noticed that the "aniversary" edition of the Khorns have a closed back. Would closing the back of older Khorns create enough fake wall to reproduce the intended bass without jamming them into a corner?
Crossman
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Does it require any modifications to the crossover?
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How do you mount the Beyma CP-25 tweeters inside the Khorn cabinet?
"V-Trac" Midrange Horn Upgrade For Khorns
in Technical/Restorations
Posted
What modification would be necessary? I asked Bob Crites about this, but he didn't give an answer. He was waiting to evaluate Greg's horns.