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http://www.audiblerapture.com/pics/homeaudio/rf5pc12.JPG Once again, another fault of the forum not being compatible with chrome, i can't make the pictures nice and IE won't let me login into the forums. Ugg. Thats what my setup looks like right now

i love the RC-3 II, i think its a very smooth center. the SC-2 has done a great job in the stead of the SC-2 but the RC-3 II is definitely worth the $100-$125 but nothing more than that. I have the SC-2 because i have the SF-2's and they all matched perfect. I have been using the SC-2 with the RF-5's and for the most part, they timbre pretty well i think but in the end, the RC-3 II wins the battle. Scoop it up, it will probably match well-really well with the RB-61 II's and heck, if you don't like it, sell it and you'll make your money back. i will take a photo of everything really soon. I have to reset all of my godaddy crap since they changed IP's and i got kicked out of my stuff. Ugg. The setup looks thrown together right now because it was haha. Just making do, temporary style.

bahh. I forgot to list the svs pc12-ultras. The RF-7 set i had with me in az before i moved to NJ and when i moved back to AZ they stayed in NJ until i bought a house which i did and they are on a truck with a bunch of my other stuff somewhere in the state. It'll be here soon.

i think he meant he has bookshelf openings built into the entertainment center at floor level. not wanting speakers actually out on the floor. so i am guessing the heresy on slant risers wouldn't work. if you dot mind us asking what you had before? you mentioned new to klipsch. and i have owned many floorstanding towers of other brands that my rb-61's trumped in output and clarity. and i like how you mention being new here but you mentioned us recommending a new spouse....(like we would ever do that ) i dunno about that, my woman said the subs were a little too big and she snarled when i told her the 7's were on their way. I just got engaged over the weekend so i may have to do a trade in...of the woman, not the speakers

I would get the RB-81 II's if you can and the RC-62 II. You would be maximizing your small space requirement. I think you will be ok with the different heights. I had my RC-7 above my TV which was about 2 feet higher than the height of my RF-7's and it worked out fine. The ideal is straight across but then again, the world isn't ideal so we have to get as close to it as possible. A posted picture of your wall would help!

For your pool house (lucky bastard), I would most likely recommend the RB-81 II's. I haven't heard them first hand but if they produce bass similar to the RB-5's, they can handle their own for sure at moderate to higher volumes. That's the catch though is the moderate-higher volumes. Personally, I think that in that size room you have with bookshelfs, I would get a sub. A single downfiring SVS cylinder sub would make for small footprint and easy placement as bass waves are "omni-directional). Unfortunately, for the most part, you are limited by physics and how a speaker works. Generally, bigger bass means bigger drivers or special porting which means more volume for the enclosure. If you want something more bassy off the bat, the floorstanders RF-62 II or the RF-82 II are very good contenders. I don't necessarily recommend the RF-7 II's (if they have the same bass curve as the original 7's) because their bass picks up only at higher than average volumes. Don't get me wrong, if you want concert volumes, you will have so much bass that you wont know what to do with. That's if you went floorstanders in the pool house which you don't want. If you aren't using the pool house for home theater at all and just music, get a regular stereo receiver. Harman Kardon makes awesome receivers and they sound great with klipsch. It sounds like you want to just use 4 speakers so you can easily run 2 speakers on each channel and bring your nominal load to 4 ohms which those receivers can handle that and handle it very well. How do i know this? I have a, wow, probably 13-14 year old HK (just realized its been so many years) that rocked my RB-5's at a party, no sub needed. For your home, I had the Icon W series and they are truly beautiful cabinets with a wonderfully open sound. Their downside? Bass. I had to cross them at 60hz to prevent the low end from becoming harsh and muddy. That is the only drawback. For your size of a room, being it is similar size to my living room now, having a speaker with larger drivers will help improve the size of your sound stage. Something like the RF-62 II may be a good start for you. The 62 II and the 82 II sound very similar and are similarly capable but i have always chosen the 8" drivers over the 6" drivers. I just feel like the 8's give more to the overall sound than the 6" drivers do. I have been running my RF-5's with my TV as my RF-7's havent arrived on the moving truck but I can say this, although the 7's lack the low end bass i like to have, their imaging is huge! That is why i love them for home theater and home theater only....The RF-5's which have 8" cones versus the 10" cones of the 7's are more versatile for both HT and music a like and have a gloriously deep low end. That makes the RF-5's great for apartments, you don't need a sub and you won't feel like you are missing anything that you should be hearing but you also won't blow your neighbors out of the beds. I had a sony received a number of years ago and wasn't a huge fan. I think that there are way better options out there for the same money such as denon, onkyo, yamaha, marantz, pioneer and integra (which is onkyo owned). I have a marantz and i am quite pleased. Receivers can have great output but are usually noticeably deficient when it comes to producing good, crisp, low end bass. You can have the muddiness by crossing your speakers at 60-80 hz given you have a speaker with full range ability (not a satellite like the quintets or even the wb-14). You are good with a subwoofer in your home so i would again recommend SVS, they have fantastic customer service that was what sealed the deal of happiness with me. There are other brands like emotiva, rythmik, epik, sunfire and velodyne just to name a few that you can check out as well. Personally, i enjoy having my floorstanders running full range (but they are also truly full range down into the sub-bass region) with no crossover and having a sub work in tandem from 60hz down. If you want to spring into the world of separates, it truly is a pleasurable albeit sometimes frustrating way to go but in the end, You would be hard pressed to get me to choose a receiver over a dedicated amp and processor combo.

Good point. LOL I'm not one of the guys that says you should always set a xover point. There have been times that I have preferred setting my RF-83's to Full Range but they can handle it. Sorry.....I just realized I was thinking backwards. 120Hz is high for a subwoofer (excluding LFE frequencies) but I can see where you would want to xover the mains at 120hz if they are small. i run my rf-7's and rs-7's full range plus subwoofer crossed at 60hz but to me, this is what sounds good.

what he said ^ most center channels work very comfortably at 80 hz. Of the many klipsch centers i have owned, i believe all of them have been set to 80 with the exception of my RC-7 which i have set to 65hz. The RC-7 has an extension down to 45 hz but i tried that and the voices got too raspy and harsh sounding.

I was going to suggest you just get a dedicated pre/pro unless finances are really tight which might push you back into receiver territory. The emo processor is an option and outlaw audio has one as well similarly priced. I just havent done a close side by side comparison to tell your pros/cons.

Mirage is a very good brand of speakers and is owned by klipsch too. The OMD-5s i actually looked at for my computer but when it got time to purchase they were no longer for sale. They will make a great surround. PSB is also a very good brand but that one line in specific i know nothing about. People mix and match all of the time. It just comes down to if you can tolerate sound signature differences between brands/models. Do what you can in the meantime, nothing is ever perfect. You should be able to calibrate the gains correctly so everything increases at the same rate or near it.

400 isn't bad for that i dont think. It just depends on what you are expecting to get out of the system.

i thought about the DIY route but at the end of the day i said i dont have time to screw around with a sub build right now. In the future i will when i have some good disposable income. The GF snarled at the size of the subs i have now which actually surprised me a bit. Its "cluttering" her living room, whatever that means.

i heart subs. Take your Pick http://www.svsound.com/subwoofers. I just bought 2 pc12-plus and yes, i know its out of your range but so far, the service with SVS has been stellar. My one sub has been through 2 plate amps which from what i described they had never seen. I can see how both amps got past QC and thats because they were latent defects, they took time to show up, not something you are going to see in the time a manufacturer would take to QC. None the less, they sent me 2 amps both with return shipping prepaid. I just hooked up the new amp last night and the sub is now working perfect. They are a bit more spendy but you get an awesome warranty, a great 45 day trial period and stand up customer service. This is if you want to buy new. Used subs can be just as good as new but there is the off chance the amp is malfunctioning and then you have to worry about how to service it. The great thing about online direct is they are setup well with shipping and getting things services is generally easy. I got burned on the purchase of a rotel receiver and one of the channels is going bad. Passive speakers are a rock solid purchase because 9/10 times you can tell if they are bad just by looking and listening to them. Speakers with amps built-in....thats a gamble.

This thread is completely useless unless you post pictures of everything . I don't think you would have made a poor decision in any case with those 3 at the helm. I believe that your choice will come down to personal preference of sound. I'm rocking 125 watts a channel of clean power and the 7's gobble it up and spit out beautiful sound

i think that finding an awesome unfinished pair is lucky! i would try to get them for $900 or $1000 provided everything works right.

localization really comes down to your crossover. Personally, i like to have my subs crossed at 60hz but then again, the RF-7's dig deep enough that this is a happy mix. I'd also like to add that placement is also a big deal.. I know everyone says bass is omnidirectional and it is but the placement is crucial because it add add or detract room gain and how much of the bass actually gets to you after traversing couches, walls, tables, carpets etc. Having 2 subs helps to even out room response and this is a true statement. This is why i purchased 2 svs cylinder subs. One hasn't been working right and im on a third replacement amp for it. Well, where i am going here is i have had good time to test 1 vs 2 subs. Although one can carry the deep end, i do find the response lacking depending on where I sit. I am also having a tough time finding just the right location for them. In my defense, i just moved into a house and things are very dynamic at the moment. Aside from what i have said, you have an awesome expensive sub and it may take a while to accommodate it and get things tuned up right.

so far, the cylinders were a good decision. The box vs the cylinder have their perks. SVS recommends you place the cylinder as close to your mains as possible when running duals and corner load them with singles. When you run then is such close proximity to your mains, you lose some response because the waves hit your towers. JUst something to keep in mind. This is something avoidable with box since they are front firing.

the beasts arrived a few days ago and they are....awesome. The first sub of the 2 i hooked up had some issues. The display on the plate amp kept fading to the point of being unreadable and the amp was just not acting right. I disconnected and got the other one up and running it it works just as it should. I have it tuned to 16hz on the DSP. I will say that 1 of these in my 3200 cuft room is enough but i got the second for even room response which i can already tell is beneficial especially having duals in the past. Now on to my SVS customer service experience. Well, you may ask "Ian. why did you go with SVS?" My answer is a quality product with excellent customer service. Rythmik was on my list and so was HSU but HSU didn't fit my needs and Rythmik never suggested awesome customer service and doesn't warranty like SVS. Some will snark at this statement but free shipping both ways and a full 5 year warranty beats slaps Rythmik even if their products have more output. Not to mention, when i called Rythmik, I assume i got Brian on his cell with the absolute worst reception ever and this was like that the last time i called about a year or 2 ago. If i had money to blow and it wasn't a concern, i would happily play around with a Rythmik, i have only heard good things about their products and their quality. SVS is shipping me a new plate amp with a shipping return label and i just ship back the defective amp. Yes, that easy. Only question asked was what is the amp doing wrong and where do i ship it. The biggest thing that i have noticed so far is that the bass is deep, clean and accurate. I compare it to my small HSU ported sub and this thing is only about 3 times the cost and you get output 20 times what it could do. Obviously and apples/pears comparison but it gives a benchmark. Now, lets compare to my 2 Emotiva Ultra Sub 12's. One PC12-Plus kills 2 Emo Ultra Sub 12's. Again, a little bit of apples to oranges but it gives you an idea. Ported vs Sealed and more power per driver. I am still working on placement of everything so its not fully ironed out. I will have pictures soon enough since words suck and eye candy is much more fun. Nothing like woofer porn.

100% different sound. Def Tech has some cool speakers and i think that they have their place. Honestly, you need to hear both. What do you ears say. I can't tell you what kind of shift it would be for you. It is possible that the laid back sound is much more enjoyable for you. Personally, I see Def Tech as more of a WAF class speaker and serves its purpose while also producing great sound. I agree though, Klipsch is by far the best bang for the buck and a class leading quality speaker. I heavily believe in the law of diminishing returns with speakers and i don't see many other brands out pacing klipsch speakers. The Reference line does a bang up job and for the price for a pair of RF-7's, what would you have to pay for the competitor to match its output ability. The Heritage line has a great sound. Personally, i wish the higher end Reference line would employ a 3 way design. That midrange really kicks things up a good healthy few notches and brings music to life. In that respect, the Heritage line is worth its salt. Its not always comparing output abilities either. What does the speaker sound like to you? What are you looking to get out of the speaker? Low bass extension? Extreme output? How big is your room? You need to cater to what you want/need.

Nice! A lot of us, although we love klipsch also have speakers from other brands. Its always nice to see what others are enjoying. Personally, i think the SV Sound speakers are very sleek looking, the same with KEF and GoldenEar. Plain and simple, i cant afford them nor do i want to give up the klipsch i do have. How much did your new Revel setup set you back?

"BLASPHEMY" they cry. I say "Nay Nay". I think these are some of the neatest drivers on the market except for the plasma tweeter which is the closest thing to zero mass. I haven't really had any listening time though with a ribbon/planar driver and curious to hear about your experiences with them. This is completely subjective of course. How do you think they compare to compression/horn drivers?

I took the plunge, dual PC12-PLUS's! Just ordered them, muhahahaha!!!

You could go for the outlaw monoblocks. They are a great size too. They are Class G topology which means that at higher wattages, the voltage rails switch almost instantaneously on the transformer to meet your higher demands. This way you can get away with lower heat production. I have an Arc Audio amp in my car which is Class H which is extremely similar to Class G and I can't hear any difference when the rails switch. You shouldn't hear any difference in what you hear when the rails change, not even a hiccup. Basically, Class H and G topologies have a basic circuitry of class A/B. The sherbourn stuff looks interesting as well but look extremely similar to the emotiva amps guts wise. For all i know, it could be a completely different amp design. http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/2200.html Model 2200 (7 Amp Combo) 2200 Monoblock Amp (7 Amps) *Free Ground Shipping! $1879.00

if your settings are all correct on your receiver, i would call pioneer and have them walk you through it all to ensure it is working right. You may have a bum rca channel, iys possible.

We are closing on our home today! Yipee!!!! I have started to consider building myself a sonasub. I think it would be a fun project and i have always liked downfiring subs. The cylinders are cheap enought o make this a really fun project and to try different things. I am debating on doing it ported but in any case, i need to familiarize myself more with WinISD to make it happy. For this project, i am scoping out the 15" dayton ultimax. Thoughts this vs the 18" dayton reference?