dls123

Hi Everything I said about the Cornscala is wrong. It now has 20 hours on the caps and the highs have fully opened up. I was wrong...they are better than I thought! Any boom in the bass is now gone, the midrange has no trouble whatsoever making it up to 6000 with those fastrac horns, and the highs are fully extended. Cymbals sound like cymbals should. No harshness at all, well defined and musical bass. Imaging is very good. Maybe not quite as good as my Josephs, but hey, that is their strong point. However, the Cornscalas are do a very good 3D image depth and floor to ceiling image with the lateral soundstage a foot or two wider than the speakers. With a Citation II the clarity is simply unreal. The Josephs do not have this dynamic range. They sound nice, but sort of polite. And believe me, I love them and have lived with them for 5 years. All the discussion about crossover choice is familiar. I tried to sort it all out when trying to plan mine. Like I said above, I just built the one that gothover liked, figuring that he had heard many. It turned out great. I have attached a photo of how I built my XO. I like ground busses since I build tube amps all the time and use them. It allows me to see exactly what is going on, and that everything is star grounded. I am sure there are many ways to do this though. I just used Solens Litz air core coils on the mid and tweeter instead of foil because I live in Canada and Parts connexion was having one of their 15% off sales and they carry Solens. I am sure I could have used the foil ones and the speakers would have sounded very similar. Ditto the 600/6000 universal vs. the ES crossed over at 5800. I bet they sound pretty similar. Certainly both would sound great. At some point you need to just dive in, use good components, and build a pair. You WILL be happy no matter which path you choose. I agree though, try and cross the midrange at 5800 or 6000 and cross the woofers to mids at around 600. The K33 sounds great up there, they have no problems. If you look at the response of the fastrac horn with the K55 on Dave's site you can see that crossing at 600 is right where the combo flattens out. 500 will probably work, but there is no reason to go that low. Trust us, it sounds really good at 600 and 5800 or 6000. My 2 cents. Really, this is one of the best pair of speakers I have ever heard at any price! Are there better ones? Of course, there are always better ones. But you know, a lot of the stuff in Stereophile that sells for $10K a pair and up doesn't sound appreciably better than these. They certainly don't have the dynamics. I am sure they measure better, but who cares? These sound like music, and you are too busy enjoying the tunes to be wondering about whether there is a hump or suckout at some frequency. They just have that certain jump and they sound like music! cheers, Don

Hi Rick, Thanks. I just brought my fully "McShaned" Citation II downstairs to try with them. Even better. You are right, the midrange is pretty amazing. With the II, the clarity is astounding. Yet it is never harsh or ringing at all. With the stock cornwall there was just the slight honk in the horn at certain times. Also, with the new XO and the CT125 tweeters the highs are far more extended. I was considering mounting the tweeters on the front of the board, but it seems they are fine where they are. Astoundingly good speakers for the $1400 I have into them. Plus I love a good stereo project. I have rebuilt about 40 amps and preamps (all tube) in the past few years. I always end up listening to the Citation II though....you just get hooked on that clarity. I have to say that a Citation II through a pair of CornScalas is pretty darn good! Dave's comment about crossovers was that he never really ever heard a bad CornScala regardless of crossover choice as long as the parts used were good. So I just built his favorite design, but my guess is that yours is every bit as good as mine and probably not all that different sounding. The bass takes a little getting used to. Prominent, and not the tightest, but very, very musical. A string bass sounds like a string bass. Mine still only have maybe 10 - 12 hours on them so the caps are still changing. It is mainly the highs that are changing and becoming more extended with time. The tweeters are the only new drivers so they are probably breaking in a bit along with the caps. If these things get much better it will be spooky! Plus they look cool. Dave's horn looks like it came from the factory. At some point the sound is so good it isn't worth splitting hairs trying to get better.... cheers, Don

Hi Herb, Thanks. Yes, I think the advantage to making this mod is that it still looks exactly like a Cornwall with the grills on. I hope to sneak them out of the basement and into the living room to replace my Josephs which are taller and thinner. I might be able to ease the transition if I keep the grills on for a while, you know the drill about sneaking rather large speakers into living rooms and spousal approval. I know they sound better with the grills off, never heard a speaker that didn't. I think any good cap will make a great speaker with this design. There are so many to choose from. I have used the Daytons before in several projects and they are really cost effective for a 1% matching cap. I am sure you could fool around with a dozen different caps and change the sound slightly, same with inductors. Dave said he has never heard a bad sounding pair with any of the crossovers, but that the ALK universal modded for 600/6000 was his favorite. He has built and modded quite a few so I went with his recommendation. They sure are nice, and it is a lovely crossover. I did all the mods at once (horns, cabinet tweaks, removal of bug screens on K55, new XO) so I cannot comment on what mod improved what aspect of the speaker, but it is so much better than the stock Cornwall that it isn't even close. Better at all frequencies, better clarity. They match my Josephs upstairs for clarity (driven by my fully modded Citation II), but the Josephs (and I do love them) just don't have that Cornwall slam. Once you get used to hearing it then you just don't want to give up that dynamic range. The bass on these is different than the Josephs, but very musical. Really, while I expected them to be better than the originals I had no idea they would be this good! I guess all those of you who built them know. I cannot say that I have ever read a bad review of a Cornscala! Now I know why! cheers, Don

Hi, Dave has the schematic posted on his site: http://mysite.verizon.net/res12il11/id92.html I used the bigger one on the bottom left - a modified ALK universal with the 33 uF cap off the woofer to the mid and tweeter and the 1.5 mH inductor on the woofer. The picture on the top left is of Dave's layout. Mine was pretty similar. I used Solens air core coils (Litz wire) on the tweeter and midrange. This is what Al recommended in the original. Dave used copper foil here. Both are probably good. If you email me I can send you a photo of the crossover. Dave would be happy to send you the layout I am sure. cheers, Don

Hi Pete, I am in Nelson, BC, Canada. Have been lurking here for a while gathering info. Was thinking about doing a pair from scratch, but then a pair of pretty minty walnut 75 Cornwalls showed up about 3 hours away for $600. So I decided to do this project instead. Pretty stunning improvement across the board. The original XO had CDE poly caps from a previoius owner and upgraded binding posts. Original other than that. While I enjoyed listening to them, this is an entirely different speaker. It goes much lower with more authority and clarity and yes, the difference in the mids is startling; a whole different animal. The tweeters are pretty good too, and since they have the most caps in the XO they need another 10 or 20 hours to fully show their colors. I was thinking about mounting them flush on the front, but I quit here for now and will live with them a bit. I just wanted to quiet and listen to them! Dispersion seems more than adequate. Yeah, a split version with a larger bass bin would be fun. Or I was thinking about making a cabinet about the same size as the original with no parallel surfaces, and just large enough for the Beyma tweeter. Also possible time alignment. But these are incredibly good speakers and I am not sure how much difference all that would make for the effort. At some point the sound is so good it is time to work on something else. Maybe in a year or two when I need another project! cheers, Don

Hi all, Just thought I would post a couple of shots of my new CornScalas. Just completed them, they started life as a consecutively numbered pair of 1975 Cornwalls in pretty nice shape. Interiors were spotless. Klipsch certainly builds speakers that hold up! I used the gothover horns and a modified version of the ALK universal XO that gothover recommended as his favorite in this speaker. I built the XO's with Solens air core coils on the squawker and tweeters and an Erse coil on the woofer, Dayton 1% caps and a Jantzen 33 uF on the woofer. Cabinets were lined with B-quiet that I had laying around leftover from a car project. I also put some B-quiet on the woofer frames. Used a pair of the Crites tweeters as well. The result....well, the caps have about 5 hours on them and the speakers are really opening up. While I liked the original Cornwalls, these are so much better in every way that it is not the same speaker. Everything you have read about the CornScalas is true in my opinion. Stunningly good speakers! And the crossover caps aren't even broken in yet. Sound wonderful with my Citation V and Citation I. I will have to try them with the Citation II later this week. I have never heard a pair of speakers this good. Warm, rich, yet fully detailed. Bass is far better than the original. Don't know how much of that is the cabinet tweaks, or the improved XO......but it is great! Hope the photo comes through! cheers, Don

Hi He has a new midrange diaphragm that may be a slight improvement of the one in the stock Forte. Not a whole new midrange, sorry for not being specific....

Hi all, First, I don't want to start any wars here...just gathering opinions. I recently bought a lovely pair of original Fortes in dark walnut (or whatever the dark color is). The previous owner was another tube amp builder as I am. He did all the Crites mods, new titanium tweeters, new autoformers, good caps, new air core inductors, etc... They sound great. I was thinking of putting in the new Crites midrange that is now available and that would be it. I really like them. So here is my question. There are two pairs of mint Cornwalls available within driving distance of me. I could probably get them for a decent, but not garage sale price as both are in perfect shape. One is 1978, the other 1975. Now, I have read the dozens of Cornwall vs. Forte threads on here, but has anyone compared a fully tricked out pair of Cornwalls with the new Crites tweeter and updated everything to a modified Forte like mine where it too has been totally updated? So that both speakers are about as good as they can be.... I have a basement system with a Citation I into a Citation V (both fully restored with all McShane kits) and I have a living room system with a fully restored Citation II, and a custom 6SN7 based preamp. I have room in the living room system for Cornwalls, it is a big room and I could easily put them 7 - 8 ft. apart and 1 - 2 ft. out from the walls. So, what might be the sound difference between fully modded pairs of each? Any opinions welcomed. Also, there is another pair of original Fortes in mint condition I could probably grab for $400....and then fully mod them. cheers, Don

Thanks! Many jumping off points to read from. There is a pair of cornwalls for sale not too far away, but it is too soon. I can build anything if I can get my shop up and running again. Been focusing on tube amps the last few years. cheers, Don

Hi all, I have managed to purchase a pair of original Fortes in near mint condition. The previous owner just had too small a living room for them and is building his own speakers, but he liked them quite a bit. He is also a tube amp builder like me, and he did a very nice job modifying these Fortes. Here is his description of what he did: "I completely rebuilt the crossovers with point to point wiring using foil inductors (Goertz) in the tweeter circuit, heavy gauge air core inductors (Erse) in the woofer circuit, Sonicaps in the mid and tweeter circuit and Solen caps in the woofer circuit. I upgraded the autoformers in the mid ("squawker") circuit to the Bob Crites models. I also replaced the tweeter diaphragms with the new titanium versions (also Crites) which provide a less peaky and more extended response and are universally considered to be superior. I also soldered the connections at the speakers rather than use the push-on connectors. The crossover is fairly simple, just rebuilt using much higher quality components." So, I have been listening to them for about a week and they are indeed very good. I have them in a large living room powered by a custom 6SN7 based preamp with full tube power supply and buffer stage, driving a fully restored Citation II with all the McShane kits (I am sort of his authorized installer). The Citation II is in triode with EI KT90 tubes - this is about as good as push pull gets. The combination is very good. While I have heard many horns I have never lived with any. It seems that maybe I could put spikes on them and maybe add a brace to the cabinet or line it with something, but these would yield sublte improvements. The speakers are very, very good, with very deep and contolled bass - that is what a Citation II does. So my question is this. Let us say that cost were no object within reason, but speaker size is - spousal acceptance factor, you know the drill. Is there a Klipsch model that would sound better than the modified original Fortes that I have. For example, would a pair of original Cornwalls sound better if I did all the Crites mods? Or would the general character be the same as the Fortes with perhaps just a bit more bass? I cannot put one of the huge models in my living room, not an option. I like the Fortes, just interested if there is something that is the next step up and not too much bigger. Maybe a tad better imaging or whatever. Clearly some of you have heard, lived with and modified many models. Or are these modified original Fortes about as good as the smaller Klipsch speakers get....? And they are good, I am not discounting them. Or perhaps an additional mod to these Fortes.... Any opinions will be read with interest! Fire away! cheers, Don

Hi, Thanks. Yes, they are quite an interesting speaker. They are sitting next to a pair of AR3a speakers that I completely restored, much as the previous owner restored these Fortes. Of course those are two completely different ends of the speaker spectrum! You could happily live with either though. It is my basement system. I have a few tube amps around so for fun I hooked up an old Paco kit amp. It is a little 7199 PP integrated I rebuilt. Nothing special, about 14 watts/ch. Sounds very good through the Fortes. The Citation pair is much better, but you could live with the Paco. If the darn Fortes were just a bit smaller and lighter I would haul them upstairs and hook them up to the main system for fun, but I am afraid I might damage them moving them without help. Still, I just might. I want to hear what they sound like in my living room which is much bigger than the basement. These speakers are more room dependent than most I have heard. Upstairs is a Citation II (fully restored with all McShane mods). I bet the Fortes would sound very nice with the deuce. Anyone else out there running a Citation II in triode through a pair of Klipsch speakers?.....

Hi all, While I have heard various horns over the years, I have just purchased my first pair. I picked up a pair of the original Fortes that are cosmetically very nice. Drivers are all in very good shape. The seller had modded them. I have rebuilt my fair share of speakers so I know a decent job when I see one. His list of mods was: new, better quality autoformers, new diaphragms on the midrange horns, new good quality poly caps, I think Solens on the bass and I believe Musicaps for the mids and highs. He also made a nice lexan plate with nice terminals for bi-wiring. They sound very good indeed and I am driving them with my fully restored Citation I and Citation V. My question is this.... I am a tweaker. I rebuild tube gear all the time. So what else would one do to a pair of original Fortes? Any recommended interior cabinet treatments? Spikes? He pretty much nailed the crossovers already....I doubt further crossover improvements would yield more than a subtle improvement over what he has done, so what else is there? Also, they do seem very sensitive to placement. In my basement system they seem to do best about 3 feet from the wall. The mids and highs seem to suffer if you put them closer to the wall. Any placement advice will be read with interest! Any tweaks will be cheerfully considered! cheers, Don