fire pinch

OHHHH! The_Ears, I forgot to tell you someting which is very important. I can tell you why the numbers are dropping below 40 Hz. Well, im NOT SURE. But I think that this is due to my very small bedroom (1470 cubic ft). So I think that below 40 Hz, the sound waves are too long. I mean that If I put a 20-30 Hz test tone, it will most likely play in the next room cuz the waves are too long. So this is why I can get more bass below 40 Hz in my living room which is almost 3 times larger. Maybe this is why im able to shake the windows in my living room. A good explanation? Well, its what I think. Maybe im wrong... anyway, more testing in the future. Maybe tommarow, maybe next week... when I will have the time. I will not raise the bar very high so I just hope for the moment that I will get 110 dB from 20 to 60 Hz (below the crossover point) from 1 meter at least in my living room. Maybe 115 dB? Well, I hope that I didnt hallucinate but deep bass was stronger there. This is confusing... Since I must take my measure nearer the sub, all things will change. Im sure of nothing now anymore! More news later !!! This message has been edited by fire pinch on 07-18-2002 at 12:37 AM

The Ears, Humm well, in my living room this is pretty strange. The place is almost 3 times larger than in my bedroom and the bass is more powerfull than in my bedroom below 40Hz. I detect that with my ears. I didnt measure but lets say that im able to shake the windows in my living room but im not able in my bedroom. So I can easily get 110-112 dB there, down to 20 Hz or even 16 Hz... down to 16 Hz its hard to beleive but I must measure. My ears just detect that the sub is way flatter in my living room. Im sure that I get a flat response + or - 1 or 2 dB maximum. Since the sub is performing more than before, I must do a second test. The sub doesnt bottom out easily like before and it can play louder than before without the distortion I got before. But hey, I dont have the best Sunfire from Bob Carver. I dont think that the VTF-3 can be equal or beat the best Sunfire. It would be very unbeleivable for the price. Maybe, MAYBE this is possible. BTW, if some people say that the VTF-3 should be comparable in output to the SVS PC+ or CS+, which sub from SVS can beat that Sunfire? The SVS Ultra you have? If yes, where? Below 20,30,40 Hz? I DONT WANT TO START A DEBATE HERE LOL! But well, to know the truth, I would have to go again at that store, and I dont have the taste to go there again too much lol! That thing is heavy and its boring to go upstair->downstair and placing it into the car. Of course, you can beat me in output. This is comprehensible, you have so much subs lol! Im frustrated to know that I cant get more output in my bedroom than in my living room which is like 3 times larger. Im sure that my sub isnt well placed in my bedroom and I have SO MUCH THINGS in it! One day, im gonna do a big "ménage" and I will be able to place it where I think it should be located (in a corner). The problem is that I have something in all corner lol! Shizzz... And for how I measured my VTF-3, I was at 3 meters away from the sub... at the listening position (on my chair in front of my computer) in my bedroom. Well, I want to ask you this question: are all subwoofers measured from 1 meter? For example, when we see some TN datas, do we see numbers which were taken from 1 meter away? If it is the case, I will change immediatly my method and I will do another test and post my results! P.S.: The results posted here are not to proove than I get more powerfull bass than someone else ok? This is just to show you my progress (before I had bad lucks) and to show you how the VTF-3 is, in my bedroom PERDIOD.

When I looked at the woofer, I didnt see any problem. The spider was at its place, the woofer was like... in top shape! I put the connectors at the right place like Hsu told me to do. Then after a second verification, I screwed the driver at its place. And... WOAW! Now, this is awesome!!! What can I say. I can turn it louder than before without hearing bloating sound. The woofer doesnt seem to go back like before anymore. I dont know why. Damn, sometimes, when an object is broken, I just touch it a little bit and all things are cured! LOL! Im a very strange person eh! Well now im able to shake the windows if I need too! When I put some songs, the floor, my desk where my computer, mouse is located too shake, all things are like "vented" by the VTF-3. LOL! Also, to have all this satisfaction, I set the crossover at 60 Hz instead of 90 Hz and it helps a lot the VTF-3 to handle what it is supposed to do. In many songs, I hear bass below 30 Hz I couldnt hear before!!! And damn, this sub has some very good authority DOWN TO 16 Hz!!! When I listened to some pipe organ, in max extension mode, the sub was powerfull like an earthquake! Just to tell you, Im able to get 105 dB from it at 16 Hz LOOOL! Well, just to make you remember of what I post lately, I will post my OLD results again: Note: Those dBs numbers reflect what I measured but I could hear distortion each time. Now, I can turn it like before (see numbers) but without the distortion I could hear before. Understand??? LOL! VTF-3 Max extension mode (Crossovered @ 90 Hz) 80 Hz 97.5 dB 63 Hz 101.5 dB 50 Hz 112.5 dB 40 Hz 114.5 dB 31.5 109 dB 25 Hz 107 dB 20 Hz 106.5 dB 16 Hz 105.5 dB Not bad eh! Well, even in my LARGER living room, the subwoofer is ALMOST performing THE SAME. I can even tell you that I feel more deep bass in that larger room. So the dBs number can be increased there below 40 Hz. Chaning of subject, I dont think that a 12 inches woofer is made to do mid-bass. I think more that the mid-bass should be done by my Paradigm towers. I'm just too much used to the mid-bass and "vibrations" which came from my Paradigm PS-1000 subwoofer. Some people tell in audioreview that they didnt appreciate the bass of SVS subwoofers right out of the box. I understand them. They told after that they were just not used to clean DEEP bass and their tower speakers are certainly under-powered like me so they dont get the mid-bass vibration their old subwoofer could do.

LOL L'Oreille! Au moins, je le prends pas mal hehe Tant qu'à faire, j'ai juste à me nommer Pince fou la prochaine fois LOL!!!!! (At least, I dont take it bad / I talk about how he names me in french "Firepinch" "PinceFeu") Oh well, I saw that the connecters was reversed. The subwoofer didnt come direct from Hsu... notice that. LOL! That was like the first time Hsu heard that... woofer firing backward. I have to say... every people are not perfect... Anyway, each time I buy something, I have always bad lucks LOL! Im sure that if I buy a new AMD processor tomarrow, it gonna explode right out of the box! I hate that! Im gonna hook up my VTF-3 in my room today during the morning. Im in a hurry to see what will happen! BTW, I like that high mid-pass punch and maybe Im just not used to TRUE subwoofers which know how to play deep bass loudly. One thing I noted was that when u set up the crossover at 60 Hz, the VTF-3 is strangely more powerfull in deep bass. I was shoked to see my livingroom windows ratteling when I played the song Daft Punk - One more time. LOL! A pure pleasure to see! I phoned Hsu again yesterday during the afternoon and we talked almost 30 minutes togheter. Talk about great support! This guy is so patient and can spend all his time for you in order to help you. For the mid-pass punch, he understood. My Paradigm Monitor 9 are just not enough powerfull because of my cheapo AV-Receiver (Yamaha RXV-496) which give only 70W per tower. Hah! A true joke! I plan to buy a seperate amp, lets say a Bryston (dunno if I spell it well but its what dr. Hsu told me to look for). Hsu told me also to look for others brands but I remember the word Bryston. Is it a good amp maker? Well, Ive heard from many people that this amp is very good for powering mains speakers. I hope that with a big Bryston, im gonna have more mid-bass punch from my Paradigms. I will buy the Monitors 9 v.3 (I have the v.2 now). Maybe this new version is better for the mid-bass... the bass drivers have changed and they have now a bigger voice coil I think. I just hope that with this new Bryston amp will give me the mid-bass power I want. BTW, I must buy also another av-receiver... im selling mine for the moment. Hsu named Outlaws (I dont want to pay too much for this av receiver cuz my mains will not be powered with it). What do you think all about this? This message has been edited by fire pinch on 07-16-2002 at 11:43 PM

Damn, I talked to Hsu yesterday. Well now it is 1:41 am here so yesterday (Monday) lol! He finds the situation very strange. Well, he told me to take off the woofer and changing the connector (-) (+)... reversing them. So maybe the problem will be solved. I didnt try that yet. If this solution doesnt work, he told me to call him again. And the problem would be, in that case, the amp. Stay tuned, I will give you more infos as soon as I get the woofer out of the box. Pinch EN FEU! lol! Firepinch. You are funny you, the_Ears with your pince feu :

Oh! And l'Oreille, I will be honnest and I will say that I dont think that MY VTF-3 (defective?) has more deep bass than the Sunfire Mark IV. That was very hard to tell the difference between them in output. Well, its what I found. Maybe, when I will have a new unit from Hsu or a repaired woofer, It will give more output. For now, the Sunfire Mark IV is a good unit. Very impressive... especially when u look at its size!!! BTW, im sure that the VTF-3 can give more output than now in reallity. Not sure of that, not sure until I will talk direct to Hsu... Im gonna get u informed! This message has been edited by fire pinch on 07-14-2002 at 08:59 PM

Ahem ahem l'Oreille, Voici ce que j'ai écris/ here is what I wrote: "Well, at the store, the VTF-3 was less powerfull. But the seller, as many other sellers Ive met, told me that the woofer wasnt normal. He saw like me that the woofer fires backward instead of forward. HE means that the woofer goes back, during a boom, of lets say 10 cm back and 1 cm front. Well, not 10 cm but he said 10 cm just to explain me visually the proportion forward/backward firing." I talked about the VTF-3 WOOFER here, NOT THE SUNFIRE! And like I said, it didnt move of 10 cm, that was just to show u how much to woofer goes back instead of going front. Its just like a ratio 10:1. Sorry. I didnt bring enough precision!

guhh! Sorry, now my post is edited for a better comprehension.

L O L !!! Oh I just said what the seller told me... the 10 cm you saw was what the seller told me. That was not from me... well its not 10 cm but it was just a means to explain how the woofer move in a weird means. It is more backward firing... way more than forward firing. Sorry if I wasnt enough clear lol!

Oh well, what can I say... THEY ARE SO AWESOME FOR THEIR SIZE! WOW! And their woofers are so rigid when I touched them! Talk to me about very well built subwoofers! And I brang my Hsu VTF-3... sure, I always bring it now when I want to know how it compares against other good subwoofers. For their size, the Sunfire are completely untouchable. However, I was surprised to find that my VTF-3 compare very well to the sunfire in very deep bass. I was like... wow! the VTF-3 is able to do that too? Well, at the store, the VTF-3 was less powerfull. But the seller, as many other sellers Ive met, told me that the woofer wasnt normal. He saw like me that the woofer fires backward instead of forward. HE means that the woofer goes back, during a boom, of lets say 10 cm back and 1 cm front. Well, not 10 cm but he said 10 cm just to explain me visually the proportion forward/backward firing. And when we (the sunfire dealer and me) pushed the VTF-3 at its limit, this was loud. But the woofer seemed to crah INTO the sub because it goes back so much. Im gonna talk about this to Hsu for sure of that problem. Maybe the VTF-3 doesnt give its maximum power because of that. However, the VTF-3 sound quality should not be worse because of that. In fact, I found that the VTF-3 is a bit more accurate and musical than the sunfire. My ears told me that... well MY ears. Maybe other people who own the VTF-3 and have heard the Sunfire will not say this. But its what I found. The Sunfire goes more like Booooom... a very pure POWERFULL beast!!! For HT people who want the smallest and the most powerfull sub, this is the way to go IMHO. P.S.: that was for the Sunfire Junior and the Mark IV. For sure, the VTF-3 had the same if not more output than the Junior. But the other beated MY VTF-3 (defective) in power. Even if my VTF-3 wouldnt be defective, I think that the Mark IV should have the edge in power. Well, lets wait and see when the problem will be repaired! This message has been edited by fire pinch on 07-14-2002 at 08:13 PM

Holly **** ! I just threw a DTS movie thru my VTF-3 and PS-1000 sub. Oh my god.. the VTF-3 blew so much away the Paradigm PS-1000!!! The VTF-3 -=KILL-= the PS-1000 in deep bass all the way! It shakes my windows, I can see my windows shaking from outside and inside the house! Hahah so funny to see! So in music, the two subs are well matched togheter but in movies, forget that! Well, maybe in a different room it will sounds different but in mine, its what I find. Maybe this is because of my room if the PS-1000 is good with the VTF-3. haha! Anyway, this is weird: alone, the VTF-3 sounds much better (more accurate and musical) This message has been edited by fire pinch on 07-13-2002 at 11:43 PM

L O L !!! Wow, I cant beleive that. Maybe the PS-1000 v.3 has better sound than the previous versions... but my PS-1000 is able to follow nicely my VTF-3. Im suprised. But anyway, Im selling my PS-1000. I was just curious today. I got an Y RCA adapter and I just tired both of them for fun. I was sure that the PS-1000 would lag behind the VTF-3 but this is not the case. I get now very "chest" bass with the LOOW omph the VTF-3 is capable of. Wow is all I can say!

Anyone please?

Refseller, Yeah, the_Ears judge in a very strict means... pretty much like me cuz I find always something worse when I listen to a subwoofer. I guess that the_Ears and me have very critical ears Thank you / Merci l'Oreille for all your comments! The place where I could hear the Mirage was not near me so I wanted to know what u think before. BTW, I will maybe go listen to the Mirage BPS-400 if one day, I go near that place. Ahhh, my sub choice is so difficult... what about the Klipsch RSW-12 or 15. People say that they are very agressive. I think that im gonna listen to them... but again the store is far from my home. However, I will not lose my time if they are high-ends subwoofers. This message has been edited by fire pinch on 07-12-2002 at 04:01 PM

The_Ears and all others: What do u think about the Mirage BPS-400 subwoofer? How does it compare against other popular brand such as Velodyne, Sunfire, Klipsch, SVS, etc? More tight? More musical? More powerfull? Can go lower? More punchy?

Hi all and salut l'Oreille! The_Ears will recognize me because I posted a post which talk about the Hsu VTF-3. I own the Paradigm Monitor 9 v.3 as mains. And im looking for a pair of towers which are more dynamics and which have WAY more impact in the mid-range bass but WITHOUT sacrifising the sound quality.... I mean that I want a tower which sounds flat and naturall, like the Paradigms but which can handle more power... so more mid-range bass. The_Ears, I know that u know alot about subwoofers... but is it the case too with towerspeakers? Yesterday, I was looking for Mirage, to know if they could have something more dynamic than Paradigm. I dunno too much for now, I have never listen to them. But I think that u know more makers than me. So what towerspeakers would you recommand to me? Another question: What are the difference between the Klipsch Legend and Reference sound? Thank you

Pincefeu! hahahaha!!! C'est pinch en feu! En tout cas... So the PW-2200 would be a great choice! Im gonna listen to one soon and I hope that it will give me the tweeter upper bass I want! Well, I dont want that much of upper bass but just enough to make it somewhere more musical! And by seeing my test results, how many dB do you think I can get with a PW-2200? Just gimme me an idea... I will like to have the same authority down to lets say 25 Hz than the VTF-3 (well maybe the PW-2200 will not be able to do that.. but for the money?) This message has been edited by fire pinch on 07-01-2002 at 11:19 AM

Seb, I wrote the answer above in a reply... no even if I inverse the phase, the woofer seems to moves backward again. Nothing change... The_Ears Pleeease, I need your anwers to my questions!!!

I posted my results!!! Ah and finally, forgot about what I said for the woofer. It really moves backward instead of forward during boom boom or kick drum. I dont hallucinate, I just put my finger at ,lets say, 3 mm in front of the woofer and then I put a techno song and I felt a little the woofer knocking in my finger but in fact, the woofer excursion was huge. Wow what a long sentence! lol! Firepinch's home made english sentence This message has been edited by fire pinch on 06-30-2002 at 03:44 PM

Yeah this is true. If I could have more power to my mains, I wouldnt need probably that punch from the subwoofer. I have only 70W/channel for my Monitor9. NOT enought for sure. Anyway, im gonna buy a new amp this summer so Im in a hurry to see what those Monitor9 can do in mid-bass punch. I dunno if they will be more punchy althought...

quote: Originally posted by boa12: fire, my phil is a sub woofer should be a SUBwoofer. that handle mostly the 1st octave (20-40hz). then w/ some hard hitting 2nd octave mains (& others), an adjustable crossover in the processor, & some highpower to the other speaks in addition to the sub, you have it all. Yes but my VTF-3 sounds better than my Paradigm Monitor 9 in 80-100 Hz bass... I dunno why; to my ears, the 80-100 Hz VTF-3 bass is more warm, more beautifull, more present, more envelopping. This message has been edited by fire pinch on 06-30-2002 at 12:48 PM

Oh and I forgot to say this to you The_Ears! I want a sub also which can play the high bass notes (60-100 Hz) wonderfully. U will certainly laugh of that and say that I should get a sub coupled with a tweeter in a box but yeah, the VTF-3 is top performer on this. When the dealer played a bass test with some guitar and voices, I didnt hear the guitar and the voice with the Servo-15 and I couldnt too with the PS-1000. With the VTF-3 I could hear that. The VTF-3 never stop to impress me with its sound quality and its definition between 16-100 Hz. It blends so well and so awesomely with my Paradigm Monitor 9. If possible, I would like to have a Paradigm, Sunfire or a Klipsch RSW which is capable of doing that. And for all of you, when I said that the woofer was backward firing instead of forward firing, well I hallucinated. This is not true, and I think finally that the woofer is in good shape. This message has been edited by fire pinch on 06-30-2002 at 12:38 PM

Wow The_Ears!! Firepinch is pinch en feu sti en français! heeheh :D Well im poor in english so after all, maybe firepinch just doesnt mean pinch en feu! You certainly guessed that! The fact that the VTF-3 doesnt please me completely is in overall because of the price I paid for : 1600$CAN : I can get a Paradigm PW-2200 for two times less here and it performs very well against the VTF-3. But notice that I didnt say that the VTF-3 is a bad sub... In USA, the VTF-3 and SVS subs are for sure the best bargains! But here in Canada, with all these duties charge and UPS brokerage fees, these subs come here overpriced. Well I wanted to try this VTF-3, to many people tell in the forums that this is an awesome subs. This is true. It can rocks my wooden floor and my walls, even the kitchen downstairs!!! But for 1600$CAN that sub is just not enough for the price. If only I payed 1200 for it, it would be a greater deal. The_Ears, Since we live in the same location, what sub would u recommand for me? The best value please! I think that u begin to know me and Im a very hungry bass eater! I would like to have 115-120 dB in my 1470 cubic ft room if possible. Should the SUNFIRE or PARADIGM my best sub purchase? Does the Sunfire (any of them) have more output than a PW-2200 or a Servo-15 >40Hz and <40Hz? Does the Sunfire sounds better than a PW-2200 or a Servo-15? Well I just want ur thoughts but anyway, im gonna listen to a Sunfire this week certainly (I will go at Audiolight, Québec) And also, what about the Klipsch RSW series. Best value here in Quebec compared to Paradigm or Sunfire? I want BIG slam + LOOWWW earthquake bass (16-35 Hz)+good accuracy/musical+below 2000$ TELL ME MORE you are so near me so tell me tell me! Thank you This message has been edited by fire pinch on 06-30-2002 at 11:39 AM

The_Ears, In fact, MY VTF-3 and I say MY Vtf-3 doesnt really BEAT the PW-2200 in output and I really dunno why! Its kinda very strange... ULTRA strange. My room is a 1470 cubic ft room so I should get more than 110 dB with that sub... EASILY. But hell, after 105 dB, I hear the woofer fluttering or flapping, well a strange sound! It happens often during kick drum or in techno/dance/trance songs. Im really sad to see that this VTF-3 I have now doesnt satisfy me for the moment (output). Well im MORE than satisfied with its sound quality! Seb, Do you think that when the sub will be broken-in, I will have like 3 or 4 more dB? Or even more? Cuz now, getting maximum, and big maximum 110 dB isnt even normal I think. I can get 113-114 dB with my PS-1000 (The_Ears, the PS-1000 isnt the v.1 or 2, this is the v.3 with the 175W RMS amp instead of the 100 or 120W). So what the heck? The phase control doesnt seem to help! This message has been edited by fire pinch on 06-29-2002 at 11:54 PM

-=I updated often this tread cuz I did some mistakes... ahah too much tired :S=- I got my HSU VTF-3 two days ago and im not blew away by its output capability. My Paradigm PS-1000 hitted harder and had more impact (I have it now and I can compare). But in other way, the VTF-3 can go so much lower with authority than my PS-1000 and when set in max extension mode, my wooden floor knows how to rattle I went to a Paradigm dealer today and I brang my VTF-3 with me The VTF-3 is simply the most accurate and the most beautifull sounding sub I have ever heard. But notice here that I didnt listen all "The_Ears" subwoowers... I heard some Energy, Klispch KSW, B&W and Paradigm subs. I even find that the VTF-3 sounds better than any Paradigm subwoofer except the Servo-15, which sounds perhaps more accurate a bit for my ears but less musical. In overall, the VTF-3 for my ears is better than all Paradigm subwoofer musically. Now, if I come back on the VTF-3 output capability. Im gonna compare it (subjectively unfortunately) only against the PS-1000 v.3, PW-2200, Servo-15. Well, the PS-1000 has more high punchy bass than the VTF-3 (>40 Hz) but is less powerfull and by a great margin down to 16 Hz. The VTF-3 is really good in LOOOW bass. Dont talk about the PS-1000 accuracy on music, I dont see where it is lol! And now, the PW-2200. I didnt hear it side by side with the VTF-3 unfortunately like I did with the PS-1000 and the Servo-15. But I remember that the VTF-3 can be compared greatly to a PW-2200. About the same output capability and a comparable sound but the VTF-3 can go again lower than the PW-2200 and by a good margin. So the PW-2200 and the VTF-3 is less punchy than the PS-1000. The VTF-3 is probably a bit punchier than the PW-2200. The Servo-15. This is a different story. When I first listened to it side by side with my VTF-3, I was so impressed by its very clean and accurate bass. Like The_Ears told us before, the Servo-15 is really a true clean bass subwoofer. It can goes very low powerfully and has a little bit less distortion than my VTF-3. Still the VTF-3 is really powerfull between 16-35 Hz, like I said below and it is louder than the Servo-15 definitively in that frequency range (16-35 Hz). So in overall, what do I have to say? The VTF-3 is a very great unit. A good audiophile piece! But (READ THIS CAREFULLY VERY IMPORTANT !!!) the VTF-3 I have doesnt satisfy me for the moment. I hear some bloating in high kick drum songs or during techno songs. Also, it has not enough the PS-1000 punch even if my walls and other rooms rattle because of the low bass energy! I dont just want LOOOW bass... I want PUCNH too! I tried all possible placements and crossover but I still get that "bloating" or "flapped" sounds from the woofer during a high impact. Moreover, I dunno if im on crack but I see the woofer moving backward when it "boom boom boom boom" instead of going forward. Pretty strange uh? Well, I think that my VTF-3 might be damaged during the shipping or not well phased. This is possible.. who knows? Other than that, this is a good sounding sub, powerfull, more punchy than the Servo-15 and maybe a bit more than the PW-2200 but less than the PS-1000. It sounds tighter, more accurate, more musicall, more deep than any of the Paradigm subs Ive ever heard except the Servo-15 which come very close in sound quality (the bass is somewhere a bit cleaner but less details). I wrote all this without reading it again... im a bit lazy today cuz I worked hard during the last night im very tired!!! But if you have questions or if you wanna help me with the problem I have with my VTF-3 (that bloating sound during high kick drum or boom boom techno songs) dont hesitate Im gonna talk to HSU about this problem... it happens even if the woofer is not at its maximum of excursion... pretty strange! ======================================================= MY RESULTS IN A 1470 CUBIC FT ROOM: P.S.: I cranked the volume at the maximum so distortion were there but I stop when I began to hear the voice coil slapping LOL! Without audible distortion, delete maybe 2-3 dB. HSU VTF-3 (Crossovered @ 90 Hz, mains off) Max output mode 80 Hz 101.5 dB 63 Hz 103.5 dB 50 Hz 113.5 dB 40 Hz 115.5 dB 31.5 109 dB 25 Hz 107 dB 20 Hz 101.5 dB 16 Hz 96.5 dB Max extension mode 80 Hz 97.5 dB 63 Hz 101.5 dB 50 Hz 111.5 dB 40 Hz 113.5 dB 31.5 109 dB 25 Hz 107 dB 20 Hz 106.5 dB 16 Hz 105.5 dB Paradigm PS-1000 (Crossovered @ 90 Hz, mains off) 80 Hz 98.5 dB 63 Hz 108.5 dB 50 Hz 114.5 dB 40 Hz 112.5 dB 31.5 104 dB 25 Hz 100 dB 20 Hz 96.5 dB 16 Hz barely audible! Comments: The VTF-3 is still very strong when I test it and I dont hear that cone flapping I hear during hard kick drum songs or techno songs. When I play bass tests, this is the same thing, I dont hear too much the woofer flapping. The PS-1000 is a very great performer considering that it cost almost 3 times less than what I paid for the VTF-3. The PS-1000 is still very poor in musicallity and accuracy :S LOOK AT THE RESULTS <25 Hz IN MAX EXTENSION MODE! You know why now I told u before that my floor and walls litterally shake and u know also that I didnt exagerate when I said that! This message has been edited by fire pinch on 06-30-2002 at 05:39 PM