NOSValves
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Posts posted by NOSValves
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2 minutes ago, KT88 said:
I didn't want to diminish the joy of the topic opener. I hadn't seen his post before I wrote it. But because I wanted to show my point of view on the subject of SET amps, I have just rewritten it in the hope of not detracting from the thread opener's satisfaction but still showing my opinion on SET. In that sense, the new post contains everything the deleted post said.
Yeah I read the revised post. Looks good to me!
Thanks Craig
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2 hours ago, KT88 said:
wrong thread.
Well I got the first half of your post by what it said
I sure wish you'd of left it up I'd enjoyed reading the rest!
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3 minutes ago, Coytee said:
Been years but if I were to hazard to guess, I plumbed the CD player into the active crossover (DX-38) but that is if I had the Jubilee's at the time. If it was Khorns, then it would have been into the amp but would have been less sensitive. If prior to Jubilee's, it would have been 15'ish years ago....
Irrespective of that clear as mud memory, it DID sound distinctly nicer with the CD player bypassing the preamp. Hard to put a finger on what the difference was..... so I'd just say it sounded more 'lush' (I hate descriptions like that!!!)
One of the CD players had a variable output, that might have also been in the loop.
shrugs shoulders
Yea it's been too long to hash it out now....my memory sucks these days too!!
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2 hours ago, henry4841 said:
When a class A/B amplifier leaves class A all depends on how the designer biased the amplifier. With a diyaudio.com SS class A/B amplifier called the Honey Badger, designed by all the talented members from all over the world on that forum, I biased mine slightly higher than normal for it to never leave class A with my horns. Remarkable sounding SS class A/B amplifier by the way with multiple output stages. I will agree with our speakers, who normally never leaves the 1st watt window, most all retail class A/B amplifiers will operate in class A unless pushed very hard. Different story with conventional speakers depending on their efficiency rating.
As far as single ended class A operation it is still considered the purest form of amplification due to the fact the audio signal is not manipulated in any form such as being split into with the positive side of the waveform amplified with one circuit and the negative phase amplified by another as in a push pull amplifier then joined back together to drive the speaker. SET tube amplifiers who all are operated in class A are not everyone's cup of tea for sure being sound is so subjective but the form of amplification I like best. More entertaining to me even though it does have some 2nd harmonics.
Our hobby is not kidney dialysis but entertainment as Nelson Pass says. Nice to be able to choose. I have many class A/B amplifiers I switch in and out of my system for variety that I enjoy very much. It is between SE and PP amplification one can hear a distinctive difference in sound. I do enjoy them both with my preference being a SET tube amplifier. Single ended with some 2nd harmonics vs PP with a more sterile sound, cleaner as many will say, with very low distortion numbers. Nelson Pass has said he intentionally added some 2nd harmonics into some of his PP SS amplifier designs and they sold very well.
As I have said before I believe every serious audiophile should have one of both. A single ended amplifier and a push pull amplifier. Both are available in SS and tube amplifiers though SE SS amplifiers are not that common. I only know of them in high end audio. Most all SS amplifiers are PP amplifiers unless you are talking class D which is going to be the amplification form for the masses in the future.
Not sure why you post things in response you me that you ought to know I'm very aware of... your first paragraph is what I'm talking about. Do you really need to go to such length to agree with me?
Okay...
"As far as single ended class A operation it is still considered the purest form of amplification due to the fact the audio signal is not manipulated in any form such as being split into with the positive side of the waveform amplified with one circuit and the negative phase amplified by another as in a push pull amplifier then joined back together to drive the speaker."
The above is just plain wrong...Do single ended amp split the signal no they do not but they also do not have some straight wire honest reproduction either...You prefer it and that is okay I have no problem with it. But let's be clear adding 5 to 10% distortion is absolutely adding something or is manipulating the signal regardless of what order of distortion it is...it is indeed distortion. Singal ended amp indeed do it in the euphoric way that can be addictive but it is very far from the signal that enters the amplifier...
"The term distortion usually refers to a deviation from the original perfect form. In sound contexts this is a deviation from the perfect, desired sound curve."
Distortion refers to the altering or deformation of an audio signal's original waveform. Technically, any kind of audio processing (EQ, compression, time-based effects, etc.) alters an audio signal, but in audio production, the term is used to describe either intentional or undesired sonic destruction.
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29 minutes ago, Coytee said:
Yep, was a Peach and had been to Mark for some updates (new front, gains...)
I actually now remember you bringing this up in the distant past, it still makes me scratch my head LOL!! But hey as long as you're happy.
As a side note the situation you describe where you found this is flawed in some way. I'm not sure how much power the amp had but just about any CD player playing full blast into an amplifier with 1 Volt to full power should have been clipping to an extreme amount, which should have sounded absolutely horrible! So again my head is itching... this make zero sense.
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On 1/9/2024 at 11:31 AM, mikebse2a3 said:
In the real world the “Circle Of Confusion - Floyd Toole” is rampant and to use tools (ie: EQ and Tone Controls) to compensate (ie: even correct in some circumstances) doesn’t make you a “non-audiophile” and a member of the masses as you describe.
The better your system and the more revealing the system the more obvious the differences are in recordings and proper use of Tone Controls and EQ is a valid choice.
Do all recordings sound perfect to you?
If not then what do you do when they don’t? Do you not listen to them and only listen to “perfect recordings” ?
Well designed equipment like my McIntosh C50 pre-amp has 8-band Tone Controls that can be bypassed on really good recordings and engaged when less than ideal recordings are played and this allow me to enjoy a wider range of recordings that otherwise I couldn’t.
miketn
Good Post Mike I commend you on the common sense. I'll never understand the "only one-way, absolute best" attitude by many in this hobby. Or the well (insert your favorite audio reviewer or designer celebrity) says this as a valid end all absolute point. This is hobby of self gratification. All we can share is what gratifies us personally.
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On 1/7/2024 at 1:55 PM, CWelsh said:
The Marantz is an integrated from 1974, so no remote. The Node feeds into the Aux input on the Marantz which I am using only as a preamp (Marantz Preamp-Out outputs to ACA). The volume control on the Marantz definitely affects the output volume of the system, as does the volume setting of the Node. I don't know how I could do it any other way than daisy chaining.
The node should at the minimum be turned up half way (all the way up would most likely be best).. set it so that you get from 10:00 to 2:00 usage of the Marantz's main volume control for your normal listening levels. Chances are very good you're better off using the Marantz volume control for everyday adjustments over the Node operating in the digital domain.
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On 1/7/2024 at 10:12 AM, Coytee said:
The preamp I was using was a (good working condition) tube preamp to boot.
Could you share what preamp that was?
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On 1/13/2024 at 12:43 PM, Schu said:
I had a less than stellar pairing of a Hattor and my VRD's... while it was fine, it was not stellar.
I found the sound as lifeless and flat... even though the unit was CLEAR.
Clear, Detail, Resolution is the norm for description of passive preamps. To me they always lack foundation or body they just seem incomplete....
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One correction I mistakenly thought you were referencing Steve Hoffman as the reviewer but I just noticed my error. Was looking up some other information on some modern tube amps a ran into his Steve Huff highly advertising laden website....if you really think that guy is not motivated by the almighty $ I feel sorry for you...
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On 12/29/2023 at 7:22 AM, henry4841 said:
You are probably aware from research already that the audio signal in class A is left as pure as possible and not manipulated as in class B. In class B the transistor is off until it detects a signal then turns on. This creates what is called in a class B PP amplifier as crossover distortion where the audio signal is split into with one section handling the positive part of the signal and another the negative. In a class A/B amplifier the active devices are run with some current where they will be on some but run more current when a larger signal is detected. In other words a class A amplifier at low volumes and turns into class B at higher volumes. Hence the name Class A/B.
One misconception about the class A versus class A/B when using speakers like most of us use around here. Quality Class A/B tube amps with some headroom will barely ever leave class A operation, when they do its usually for a heavy hitting very brief transient or bass note comes into play. I personally think for us high efficiency speaker users class A amplifiers are a waste of money, energy and tubes! With me the disadvantages of class A out ways the advantages which I can not think of one advantage. In fact, I have designed a number of class A push/pull tube amps and could never find a reason to release one over my Class A/B VRD's. As many that have been around here know I do not at all care for single ended tube amps. They make many happy which is the point of this hobby, I'm just not one of them. To me the sound is just too unrealistic and distortion laden I could care less what order it is...
Cheers Craig
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On 1/13/2024 at 11:10 AM, Cacti said:
It's a push-pull type amp with third-order harmonic distortion. I would love to try an amp with second-order harmonic distortion as it is most pleasing to the ear (so I'm told).
My first piece of advice I can give you is stop going by what you're told and go by what YOU hear. This is a self-gratification type hobby. If the sound from your own system pleases you the job is complete. Also do not be so presumptuous as to think just because you love how it sounds others should too! There are absolutely no absolutes in this hobby.
Now onto the rest...I suggest you invest in a better digital front end...if everything is "right" you should hear very little difference in the sound of the two formats. Do not think this requires megabucks to be spent. Look for the latest greatest DAC from 5 or more years ago on the used market and also make sure you are listening to digital recordings up to the task.
Good Luck Craig
PS don't get me wrong I'm a vinyl lover! But digital can sound every bit as good if done right.
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On 1/14/2024 at 5:01 PM, thebes said:
I've heard about this guy before but here's an extensive article in the Washington Post about a guy who spent about $1 million and most of his life building a stereo setup in his tract split level house in Richmond, Virginia. A good read and at one point the author references Klipsch:
"By the 1950s, the first bulky hi-fis were marketed for home use, blowing open the closed feel of the old phonographs — and offering a newly affluent nation a sophisticated new field of connoisseurship to conquer. The Mantovani Orchestra or Rosemary Clooney, pouring out of the Klipschorns with the after-dinner martinis."
Holy fright they still let Thebes post here! Now I know the place hasn't completely gone to the dogs! Just barely LOL!!
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By the way folks don't make assumptions about me, as I type this in my study I'm using a early 70's Kenwood KA-7002 Solid State integrated amp with my original Heresy speakers the Kenwood was refurbished by Paul at Many Moons Audio. Sounds spectacular in this 12' X 14' room. I paid $40 for it LOL now that is a good review! The refurb was about $500. I'll take this over 95% of the over priced crap in audio rags!
The only part of audio I don't is the BS....
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1 hour ago, jjptkd said:
It is a great clip .. great clip full of BS! Reviewers are just a piece in the massive machine that keeps the audiofool business rolling. The idea that some new refreshing tricks have been found in tube audio some nearly 60 years after they were mainstream is just silly... Solid State has also been figured out to a T for decades hence the reason Klipsch still has those great crown amps! They also have tube amps in house too! The reviewers job is to keep the BS rolling over top of audiofools heads! Get that money!
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1 hour ago, Don A. Childs said:
No fault to my Lascalas if I used a crap SS receiver! I recall PWK used a Crown SS amp. (Crown was super in the day) Raven Audio is a small company in Texas not exactly doling out the dough to get positive biased reviews. To say this of Raven Audio doesn't mean there isn't alot of bias and "incentive" for reviewers to kiss up tp the big money companies to secure future free equipment to "Review". Sounds like a great gig if you can get it! lol However, the more consistent reason you rarely if ever read a bad review of anything is many reviewers when confronted with a sour piece of kit will simply not publish the negative review based on the old adage: If you can't say anything nice don't say anything at all. Even so, I have read reviews where you can tell the reviewer is struggling to find some redeeming qualities even if by comparison. (Its better than BLAH, BLAH, BLAH) Robinson's review of the Lascala is fantastic and reflects what we all know. He now personally owns Lascalas as his main speakers. I doubt Klipsch needed to slip him $50 or a half off coupon to entice him to write a positive review. The sad thing is as brick and mortar stores are closing fewer of us can audition the options before we buy. Reading reviews and trying to read between the lines of said reviews unfortunately becomes the default method of choosing equipment. Sad really but those HI-Fi rooms never were ideal environments to base a decision on anyway. I should know, I sold McIntosh, etc. All this to say, as a new member here, its great to be rubbing elbows with all of you Klipsch aficionados. I hope to learn alot and maybe tips on how to give my Lascalas every advantage so they can shine even brighter! The improvement with the integrated tube amp definitely showed me the only thing holding Lascalas back is what goes into them!
Just a small little company in Texas... I easily looked up that they rake in 5 million a year gross sales... Far small a small business that can't grease a few advertisers hands to get good reviews in the magazine both print and online.. hell it has been the audio industry standard business practice since audio became a hobby.
Steve Hoffman. Your kidding me right! Old Steve has never reviewed a peice of gear he didn't get to keep. He tried to negotiate that exact deal with Klipsch on Klipsch horns but at the time Klipsch refused. So in essence you agree reviews are biased👍 When the reviewer is getting thousands of dollars worth of gear plus being paid by the publication how can the reviews not be biased? I think you might be a snow flake 🤷 So I stand by my statement I don't give reviews from paid reviewers any credence..
I'm really sorry found your advice hypocritical... I didn't think you'd get you panties on such a ruffle!
PS: I don't recall stating ALL solid state amps are bad with Klipsch speakers... Please don't put words in my mouth.
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2 hours ago, Don A. Childs said:
Steve Huff did a review on the Raven Audio Nighthawk you may want to "google" it to see how he interpreted "entry level". The Nighthawk is the "entry level" for the Raven company (which tells you more about how good it gets going up their line from their 'entry level') but the sound quality is... well....I've owned one and its fantastic. Especially with Klipsch speakers! Maybe because this is my first tube amp since the 1970's (when tube amps had a few details to refine {McIntosh} ). Any way they have a 45 days trial deal if you aren't thrilled to pieces. I was simply blown away by the "human-ness" of the vocals and realism of the music in general. In fact, not to go crazy, my Lascalas exhibited many of the classic negative characteristics too often regurgitated by so-called Klipsch critics. But with the Raven Nighthawk for the first time I felt like I had achieved a level of musical reproduction that was above and beyond any expectations I had for what I'd ever be able to afford. No itch yet...
Well in my 35 years of satisfying countless Klipsch owners just about all I've heard back from report they have none of the supposed Klipsch shortcomings... In my opinion most of those short coming were garnished during the era where solid state ruled the day and tubes were a thing of the past... Mind you at least 80% of those satisfied customer garnished that satisfaction from the amps you say "had a few details to refine" . My point is engineers educated in the 40's through the 60's {not me} were trained specifically with tubes as the one and only electronic device used in just about all electronics. Those guys forgot more about designing tube gear than these modern guys have or ever will learn..
As far as reading some professional reviewers opinion no thanks most of not all of those folks are bought and paid for by the industry either directly or indirectly... Never heard or read a bad review of the product regardless of how god awful it is... or they refrain from publishing the reviews since the manufacturers will cut off the advertising funds!
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10 minutes ago, Don A. Childs said:
I'm have sympathy for price restraint..... however...I have crawled up product lines buying the next upgrade in my components until it dawned on me that if I added up the cost of replacing this or that multiple times was adding up to an amount I thought I couldn't "justify". The Klipsch speaker line is an example. I've owned almost everything but the Khorn and Jubilee. If I had just bought my Lascalas immediately I would have saved a considerable sum. (Although all my friends and family now own some great speakers! lol My son enjoys his RF7's!)) After buying SS amps/receivers I decided to stop this tactic. After MUCH consideration I bought the Raven Audio Nighthawk tube integrated. Lascala and Raven is a match that will blow your mind. BUT at $2999 it far exceeds your dollar limit by a wild margin. However....you don't know what will finally scratch that itch. (One hopes that Maybe the cheaper step will be ok until the lower performance drives you crazy)
Interesting and probably a wise approach...but the first thing I read when searching the amplifier mentioned it's considered Raven entry level product.... So, the question is when is the cheaper step going cause the lower performance drive you nuts LOL!! I foresee an itch coming your way!
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4 hours ago, henry4841 said:
I personally have quit using tube rectification on the amplifiers I now build. But you do need to bias the tube circuits with less current being that the voltage will increase with SS diodes if you want to do it correctly. Many do not and get away with doing so but it will probably shorten the tube life depending on the amplifier of course and how it was biased when purchased. SS rectification is much less trouble, expense, and has a much longer life expectancy than a vacuum tube. Many say they like the sound better with a tube but that is not what it is supposed to do. A tubes job for rectification is to convert AC into DC voltage only and not to flavor the sound.
Most of the difference between the performance/sound of SS vs Tube rectification is from people that do exactly what is done with the amplifier in question. Plugging a SS tube replacement slug into an amplifier designed for a tube rectifier is a serious compromise. SS diode take entirely different power supply designs and voltage correction. SS rectification require larger filter banks and some way to lower the voltage back to design to allow proper biasing of the output Tubes. Simply lowering the bias is a band-aid. Every single stage of the amp will be operating at an over voltage which indeed will result in a sonic character change. In the case of Dynaco or Dynaclone like this moving to SS rectification on many of the amplifiers pushes the voltages over the specification of the power supply capacitors which are already run too close to spec. In many cases.
If the user can't hear the difference they might be better served to get rid of there tube gear all together.
Craig
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9 minutes ago, amped said:
I had not personally had a rectifier blow but I avoided the Chinese one in favor of the Russian Tung Sol. Roy Motram the designer of the circuit did so 30 years ago and maybe with the rectifiers of the time it was fine. He and Bob Have retired in the last year or so. Roy did create a dual rectifier kit before leaving. They are both occasionally still on the dynaco forum.
As for the "variac", yes, I know about the dial and the analog meter. I always use a VOM to check. I also put my own marks on said dial.
Thanks!
Modern production or vintage 5AR4 there is no reason to design an amplifier to use the tube beyond it's specification... No excuse for reckless engineering... To put it in laymen's terms there is no way to reliably eeck out more than about 60 watts of power from a single 5AR4 vintage or modern. Sure vintage will take it for a bit longer but as scarce as they are why burn them up? By the way the Tung-Sol reissue 5AR4 is just the Sovtek with a base change with a vintage name stamped on it (with a higher price). As is all the modern production 5AR4 tubes with vintage names. You can thank New Sensor corporation out of New York for that scam job along with every other tube type with a vintage name today. Blatant scams if you ask me...
It's the world we live on today no integrity anywhere..
Cheers Craig
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35 minutes ago, amped said:
Thanks for the tip. My amp is a Tubes 4 hifi VTA ST 120. Bob Latino recommended that specific "variac" and I settled on that one because the U.S. alternatives were out of my range. I'd love one of those Brown Boxes (?) where you can dial in specific reductions but those aint cheap either.
I'm using an S/S rectifier as this amp runs 5AR4's hard. I hadn't blown one but have an auto bias board that delays the hi voltage. I did just get a Brittish NOS GZ34 for backup.
I'll definitely give the GFCI another shot in the right order.
It does run the 5AR4 hard in fact way beyond spec which is why they start arcing over pretty quick in most cases especially any modern production 5AR4. I have no idea why Bob didn't design it with dual 5AR4's? with SS rectification you probably should be using something to get the voltage down since using SS results in much less voltage drop. The SS rectifier solves one problem but creates a running voltage problem.
By the way I hope you know that the number on the dial or built in gage of a simple variac like your using are never accurate. You need to confirm what the amp is being fed!
Good luck Craig
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7 minutes ago, amped said:
"Regarding Variac, the red, Chinese Amazon units are the POS. Can't run at rated kVA without getting hot AF. Wipers aren't accurate or don't function until the wick is turned halfway up then wham! The internal winding is likely a better fuse than the fuse.A Staco 12A variable transformer runs about $650 and will source 1.4kVA all day and barely get warm."
My red, Chinese, Circuit Specialists "POS" doesn't get hot and I've not noticed it get warm either in the three years of having it. I'm using a 5A and it works fine for what I need. My wall current fluctuates between 119 and 124. My amp likes 115-117v. If I trusted myself to build a bucking transformer, I'd have done this. Same reason when I searched for an American Staco or Variac, the ones in my price range looked like they'd need repair or set my house on fire.
Sorry, I'm not an engineer
Chances are your amp will run just fine and dandy at 119 to 124 AC volts... But I see no reason that you couldn't plug the variac into the wall plug your GFI unit into the variac and then the amp if you want to be ultra safety minded, the variac should not mess up the GFI if it's before the GFI...plugging the variac into the GFi and the amp into the variac would most likely cause the GFI to trip it fuse.
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4 hours ago, hron61 said:
Interesting, never saw a portable GFCI before.
Thanks for posting that info about usage too.
I may have to rethink using a variac here in the home.
I can always go to a friends house and use it there I reckon.
Question...Would a dim bulb limiter be ok with or without a GFCI installed?
Outlets here are not grounded.
How high is the wall voltage that you use a variac to knock it down?
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8 minutes ago, Shakeydeal said:
No it’s 1.5. We had that discussion during the build process. I have an EL84 amp also built by Aric with 2v input sensitivity and I can get pretty close to running out of gain on some material. The 300B amp seems about right in comparison
What sources are you using?
Cornwall IV - to go SET or Class A?
in 2-Channel Home Audio
Posted
A convenient SET lovers specification .. measure distortion at 1 watt.... The industry standard is at full power.. which is what my quote represented ... If you measure a quality PP amp at 1 watt the distortion would be too low to accurately measure .. I could care what your supposed industry giants have to say ..