This is going to be fun:
"I'm not putting words in anyones mouth. Instead I'm trying to shed some light on these fruitless comments and expose you for the biased fraud you are. You did type the following tidbit didn't you? "
You'll have to get up really early in the morning to do that one, as they say.
"there is no horn-loaded speaker in existence that can accurately reproduce silky highs and a detailed and well-imaged soundstage. Horns, even the hybrid horns that Klipsch chose to use in their satellites, shoot sound at you with all the finesse of a rocket launcher"
"If that wasn't an outright condemnation of horns in general I don't know what is."
And you saw from my example with the RB-5s vs. the Tablettes that I'm spot on. Next...
Of course you immediately waffled and said that I was going too upscale in a comparison with the Tablettes but I expected that - when confronted with evidence, some folks do have a tendency to run for cover.
"Apparently your sole basis for this argument is merely auditions limited to the horn loaded Promedia's and reference series, and internet propaganda."
Nooo, not quite. You see, I auditioned the original Klipschorns years ago and that's what formed my original opinion. They were up against a set of KEF 105s and a set of Maggies and they couldn't measure up.
"As they say in the audio world if you haven't heard it your opinion don't mean **** . "
Thus you eat your own words...
"in the face of Martin Logan and even ProAc, Klipsch's home line doesn't fare too well when drawing a detailed jazz soundstage. As an example, go listen to a set of RB-5 IIs playing Miles Davis or Boney James and then listen to the same track on one of the ProAc Tablette series - the difference in placement is unmistakable."
"Lets try to keep a level playing field. You're making comparisons to much more upscale products. Taken for what they are the RB5's image very well. "
Now we get to the beginning of the waffling I mentioned above, namely the ProAc Tablette series. Heck, Polk does a better job when it comes to that.
"As I'll reiterate for the final time (because apparently yourself and Gluegun are suffering from a bout of amnesia), I've heard most of the Monsoon line (505, 702, 1000, 2000) under conditions as ideal as they're going to get in a department store, and was less than thrilled with the final result. "
Therein lies the tale - a department store. I could say that folks who base their opinions of a system on the butchered environment in a department store and then attempt to pontificate on that drawbacks of that line thereafter are at best foolish and at worst absurd or fraudulent but that would be resorting to your tactics.
"The crossover isn't smooth. I was able to localize lower midrange and upper/midbass from the sub. This wasn't so obvious when keeping everything on the same shelf, but the loss of bass imaging was. When the subwoofer was placed on the floor the changeover was disparaging. The sats sounded spaced out and thin, lending an exaggerated image to everything. The 702, 1000, and 2000's midrange was dreadful - sharp and wiry. "
First, placement matters and you obviously didn't do a good job. How can I say this? Other listeners (dvdvideo, Mr. ears, dvisic, Brad Estes, etc.) don't experience what you're climing to have heard. In fact, Audio-guru hears that same "one-noteyness" on the Klipsch 4.1s. When that many disparate people (I'm not even including myself in the mix) differ with you on all points, it's pretty obvious that either a) you did something wrong in the placement or you're blowing smoke. Since you say you've heard them and the that forms the basis of your allegations, I must conclude a).
"Even some of those pricy Martin Logans have trouble integrating the cone box woofers with their electrostatic transducers! I have nothing personally against Monsoon, I'm only describing what I hear. "
And I'm describing what many others hear, as are they.
"Frankly I'm not impressed with the musical performance of any PC speaker I've heard (note this doesn't include Videologic's or Swans). To incessantly rag on the Klipsch's flaws and turn a blind eye to the others is narrow minded and immature. "
To paint a given set of products as superior where they are average at best is misleading and spurious.
"The fact that you sit a few feet away makes a transparent soundstagesound stage impossible."
In a word:
Nonsense!"
"You're living in a bubble if you think you'll get realistic imaging in a desktop environment. First off the speakers are too close to the wall, decreasing soundstage depth. Second the close proximity of the speakers to each other diminishes soundstage width. Ideal placement is at least 6 feet apart - try doing that on your computer desk. Then you literally sit on top of the damn things cheating yourself of holographic imaging that floats beyond the speakers and into the room itself. "
If you'd set up the Monsoon correctly you'd see where your nice theories fall down. What they've done is create a localized imaging space that engineered to fit in a desktop environment. Now I can understand why you say that being a Klipsch fan - that line clearly fell on its *** in its attempt to do that - but other vendors have managed a considerably greater degree of success.
Either way, try as you will to say otherwise, far too many actual users have experienced the contrary and and thus have debunked your statements. You find them on 3DSS and Neoseekers and even Usenet - just do a search and you'll see what I mean. They're the ones who've experienced the Pro Media line and have discarded it because they DO want imaging and clarity, they DO want a detailed soundstage and a rich midrange and they DON'T want a front-row-center aprroach to sound.
Try as you will, you can't erase or debunk the testimony those people have put in print. You can of course choose to ignore it and that's your right but you can't make it go away. That will always put your comments in the perspective they merit. Thus you can say what you will here on this site where you are in the company of fellow Pro Media owners and that's OK, but of course when you stray out into the real world domain and do that, all I'll have to do is what I've always done: simply point folks to the contrary information, have them audition for themselves and expose the ersatz for what it is. I've found it most effective in shedding clear light on a given issue.
On that note, 'nuff said and I'm out of this thread.
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"Faith manages."
jms
This message has been edited by Roj on 05-16-2002 at 10:33 AM