Marathon Man
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Posts posted by Marathon Man
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Psyke,
Sounds good. Re: the receiver, I would audition a couple receivers so you will have a choice and not limit yourself to one product. There are a lot of good products out there, but it sounds like you have a plan. Have fun shopping
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MM
This message has been edited by Marathon Man on 03-10-2002 at 09:25 AM
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Thats the trouble with forums.. you cant see what someone else is talking about. Chill Ear
. I just wanted to make sure the guy got what he purchased.At any rate Vonrevel I hope your speakers turn out to the RF-7's you intended to buy.
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MM
This message has been edited by Marathon Man on 03-10-2002 at 09:04 AM
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hey this may be a dumb question but does the sticker actaully say RF-7?? I dont mean to make matters worst by asking.. Im sure its a mistake. I have RF-5's and they are rated at 150 continuous to 600 peak.
FREQUENCY RESPONSE: 34Hz-20kHz±3dB
SENSITIVITY: 99dB @ 1watt/1meter
POWER HANDLING: 150 watts maximum continuous (600 watts peak)
You said you got the speakers in the box?? was the box open? where did you make the purchase?
Below are the Dimensions of the RF-5:
DIMENSIONS (H x W x D): 41.5" (106.2cm) x 9" (23cm) x 14.5" (37cm)
WEIGHT: 60 lbs. (27.2kg)
The RF-7 also has 10" drivers as opposed to 8".
The two
If they are turley RF-7's Im sure the sticker is wrong, but
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MM
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This pulled from the Klipsch product spec sheet on the RF-7:
FREQUENCY RESPONSE: 32Hz-20kHz±3dB
SENSITIVITY: 102dB @ 1watt/1meter
POWER HANDLING: 250 watts maximum continuous (1000 watts peak
I am not sure why the sticker says contrary. Maybe your speakers got the wrong sticker.. could happen..
Your right maybe someone who also owns the speaker can compare.
hey you may have a collectors item some day. The only pair of RF-7's with an incorrect lable. LOL got to find humor in this stuff or you will go crazy.
good luck.
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MM
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yeah I love all the M cars. Have loved em for years. I just traded a 98 E39 (528) for a 02 530 soley for the xenon head lights. I know it sounds crazy, but oh well. This is a trip.. we are talking about cars on a speaker companies buliten board.. Sorry Klipsch.
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MM
This message has been edited by Marathon Man on 03-09-2002 at 09:04 PM
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Yeah.
Klipsch does that for a reason. The answer to your question is no. There is only one RF-7. What you are looking at is continuous power vs max power. The speaker will do 150W continuous, and I would say more as long as the signal is clean. Max power is the peak power rating. Listening to home theater program material is very peaky in terms of the output power demand from the amp. The RF-7 is designed for use with a home theater application, and like any good speaker designed for such program material should have a large gap between the continuous power handleing and the max power handleing. Think of it as a shock absorber.
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MM
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Is that the car to own or what.... all 400+ hp of it.
Try http://bimmer.roadfly.org/bmw/forums/e65/
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MM
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Amen..
Besides I just filled the holes in my wall from the DSP-A1's front effects speaker mounts. LOL.
Aint looking to go through the configuration headache again, however the wire is stil behind the wall, and since the B&K is both hardware and firmware upgradeable
It would be tempting. On the other hand like you said Seb by the time the software caught up with whats currently released and you have to purchase all your favorite movies over again it would not be worth it. No doubt Sony is thinking about it tho..
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MM
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Right you are William,
you can accomplish this with a speaker hub of sorts where you can select the speakers to be played. In which case both systems will be connected to the hub and the hub controls the output. As William points out copper wire is bi directional and the current will flow in both directions.
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MM
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It is not recommended to connect two power sources to the same pair of speakers in any circumstance.
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MM
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Seb,
You are right and If they do decide to make it available to the consumer market I hope it will be SDDS descrete. Otherwise it will be just a gimik like the Yamahas front effects channels.
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MM
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Beemer,
Beemer... is that a play on BMW? If so we share that passion as well, but thats a different forum.. LOL
Ok.
If it were me I would split the sub output from the receiver and place the sub i.e behind or beside the couch/chair in the primary listening position. This will give you the best of both worlds. Bass information from all 5 speakers, and it will also help to balance the room out. My second choice would be to run them in line with the rears, and place them between the two if possible or in a rear corner. My last choice would be to put the sub in line with the center. The center is the hardest working speaker in the configuration but not much low frequency information going to the center.
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MM
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The following are worth a look:
One of the very best power amps I have heard is the Power Master 2000 400WX5 almost perfect dynamic transparency. A bit pricey at 7250.00, but you will never need another power amp again, EVER!
The Proceed AMP 5 and BPA series amps are worth the listen to but in my opinion they don't have the umph at 125X per/channel for a seperate power amp in a home theater application. (just my opinion). However this is a very good power amp, and it performs top shelf. Very transparent, and smooth.
The sunfire cinema grand signature is a very good amp, but then again we all know that Bob Carver knows how to make an amplifier. Enough said.
The B&K Reference 7250, 72560, and 7270. I use the 7260 to drive 5 channels in my theather system. For the money (under 3k) you can't beat it. Very clean and transparent. Its performance is first class on program material from music to films no matter what speakers you use with it.
On the lower end of the price spectrum but without giving up much quality and performance is:
outlaw 750, and Rotel makes a pretty good amp as well.
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MM
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Need more information before a real answered can be applied. Mainly. How are you connecting the sub? "line in" (connected from pre/amp, receiver with one sub cable), or are you using the sub in line with a pair of speakers (do the speaker cables run into sub from amp, and out from sub to set of speakers). This is important when you talk about adding a sub to certain speaker pairs like rear channels or center channel. Bass information distributed to a sub when using a line in connection, uses your receiver/pre-amp's bass management system. Bass is not handled the same why when the sub is connected "in line" with a pair of speakers. If using a "line in" connection you will not be per say add bass to front back or center, but you will be simply adding bass to the whole configuration. This is because the bass information is passed to the sub from any speaker where the information is i.e. LFE or below the crossover point of the receiver/pre-pro. In this case the bass info that the sub plays can be from any channel (you dont have a choice unless you can set crossovers for individual speakers like the maridian 561, sweet). However if you are using the sub in line with a certain pair of speakers then you will only get information going to the sub from those channels. To do this you must set those speakers to large and use the low pass and high pass filters on the sub to addjust the crossover. Also if you are going to use the sub as the lower end of the frequency band for a certain speaker or certain group of speakers then the sub should sit in close proximity of those speaker(s) its playing with for better sound. If the sub is used with a sub cable, then put the sub where it gives you the best sound like behind or next to the couch in your listening area or whereever it sounds the best to you. Hope that helps
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MM
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Stevo8040,
The 8.5's are not a bad speaker as long as you plan to use them as satalites and not full range speakers. The large/small setting is basically a frequency filter. When the large setting is used no filtering applies. When the small setting is used filtering applies via the receivers internal crossover. The crossover is a cut off for sound below a certain frequency. Usually this cross over is hard coded to the THX standard of 80 Hz. This means that in the small setting nothing below 80 Hz will be sent to that group of speakers. Below 80 Hz or whatever crossover freq your receiver is set to,is where the sub comes in. The sub also has a filter called the low pass filter, and a high pass filter for that matter but high pass is only used when you run the sub in line with main speakers. In your case you will be concerned about the low pass. some say to run the low pass wide open when you are using the small speaker setting on your receiver so that you don't double filter, but I say play with this setting because there is LFE information that can get into the 120 Hz range, and this can cause localization of the subwoofer, along with the fact that most localization in subs happen right at or near the crossover point. This is largely due to the fact that the crossover point is when the sub and the main speakers are playing the same information. THis is why the need for a slope or roll off exists. The signal is rolled off or reduced i.e. sharpley or not as sharp for a smooth transition or hand off from the mains to the sub (s). Play with the slope adjustment on your receiver if you have one to get the best sound, and smoothest transition from mains to sub. The .1 in 5.1 represents the LFE channel, and all LFE is sent to the sub via the sub out regardless of the receivers speaker settings, so if the sub's low pass is either disabled or run wide open you may get info to the sub at higher frequencies than the crossover point. This can make the sub sound very pronounced and this is why I suggest playing with the low pass adjustments on the sub. Some people also cut the subs frequency lower than the crossover point of the receiver to attempt to reduce localization, but you don't want to create to large of a gap in frequencies either. I use different lowpass settings on each of my subs to get differrent results. I will not go into what settings I use because they only apply to my room. Play with the sub settings until like Seb said you get the right sound for you. The settings that apply are lowpass, and phase on the sub. As I said the high pass is not going to do anything for you if you are using the line in jacks on the sub. Depending on your receivers bass management you may be able to play with slope settings and cross over points, but that is not very common in receivers, but I know denon usually gives you those type of features with its products. So small speaker settings on the receiver and play with the filtering until you get it right. Good luck
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MM
This message has been edited by Marathon Man on 03-09-2002 at 11:32 AM
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Psyke,
After reading your second thread Im left with the impression that you are trying to build not a theater but a 2 channel music system. I have a music room as well and 2 channel stereo music is not the same as multi channel home theater. Two very different formats with very different requirements. Normally bass information in music is not as deep as in DD 5.1 theater. Unless you listen to pipe organ music as do some folks on this board, and then yes you will need something that will accuratlly reproduce the material. I personally am a Jazz buff and usually a sub that will get down to 30 Hz will do me fine. Now on to the gear. I use an old, and I say old because most people on this board may not be familure with SAE, but I use a SAE 2 channel pre amp, SAE bridge, and a Nikko Alpha 440 power amp (220 per channel) with a pair of Old school JBL towers (dont need no sub
), but I use one anyway to augment the lower freq's, but the problem is that back then they did not make sub outs on pre amps, so I need a sub that I can put inline with my main speakers and the klipsh KSW line is what I use as a sub. Now back to todays technology. Im sorry to say for us audiophiles that still beleive in 2 channel stereo, there is not much to choose from, wait let me requalify that.. there is not AS much to choose from as with multi channel pieces these days. The good thing for us is that with technology today most multi channel equipment sounds just as good with the added bennifit of yes multi channel stereo. Formats like Pro Logic II that takes two channel information and simulates 5.1 sound (cant wait for the B&K Ref 30 upgrade). You may as well try the multi channel stuff. I would if I had to purchase a system for music all over again. I like the no nonsense, no gimik gear, like B&K, NAD, Integra, lexicon, Outlaw, and Meridian. The products listed here are worth a good listening to, and they cover all price ranges, and are very solid products and performance is top shelf. These systems will also give you good flexibilty to listen to 2 channel media or 5.1 theater. If I get into your question about the difference between pre amps, A.V. receivers.. we may be here a while, but basically a receiver is a component that has a tuner, pre amp, and a power amp bundled in one component. Power amp, pre amp, tuner are seperate components. The benefit of using seperates as opposed to all in one components is rather obvious. A component built to do one task can do it more efficiently than a component built to do multiple tasks. Its that simple. One other benefit to using seperates is that when one peice is obsolete usually the per amp you can upgrade that one peice. Good Power amps are here forever, tuners yeaahhhhh maybe you may want to upgrade them from time to time (every 20 years or so), but fm radio is dead with satalite being able to receive cd quality music. So that is the short answer. The most important thing with any audio equipment is that how it sounds to you. You are the ultimate reviewer, and judge because only you know what sounds good to you. Don't get caught up in the more expensive is always better, beacause it aint... plain and simple. The most important thing is room acoustics, and setup. Learn it, live it, hear it. Hope this helps
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MM
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Psyke,
Well as you can see by reading this BB that there are a lot of people that use very different products with different configurations, and thats because everyone has their own opinion (musical ear) of what is the best for them. Big sub, small sub, powered or passive is im sure the question you are asking yourself. The number one key to a sub's ability to fill up a room with bass and tap those low frequencies is the subs ability to move air. The more air the sub can move the louder and the deeper it will play. So with that said the number one consideration you need to look at is your room size, and room acoustics. The larger the room the louder the sub will need to play to fill up the room with bass (big box, large driver, lots of power). This includes small rooms that open into the rest of the house (which then is one big *** room). Don't be fooled by dealer specs. A subs sensitivity is usually measured at one freq at 1 meter, and not the full low frequency range ususally 20 Hz - 140 Hz at say 15 feet which is a normal distance from a main sub. (Remember everyone hears different, and 30 Hz may be deep enough for some but not close to deep enough for others.) The importance of this is simple. You usually don't sit 3 feet from your speakers (1 meter). However sitting 3 feet from a sub would really make you feel the sub's output and this is why some people add a second sub behind a couch or chair they like to sit in to give them that extra punch. This is very effective at lower volumes. You see the human ear's frequency response at high volumes is mostly flat, but at lower volumes the ears sensitivity to high and low frequencies is reduced so adding a sub very close to the listening area helps to cancel the ears frequency response anomalies and low volume listening is enjoyed with you still being able to feel the bass. You asked why two subs well that is most likely the most common reason. I use two subs because of the aforementioned reason and also to balance out the sound stage. My theater is fairly larger than it needs to be, and eventhough bass is non directional in a large room if the sub is in a far corner that side of the room is simply going to be louder. The RSW-12 as a second sub fills in the gaps rather nicely. As far as mathcing gear with a sub.. no such thing. thats the beauty of a powered sub, it stands on its own, unless you are using a passive sub that will i.e. have to be feed power from a power amp, and it should not be the amp section in your receiver. Use a dedicated amp for passive subs. The only other factor or variable to your subwoofer is the speakers you are playing around your sub. K-horns are very pronounced with high sensitivity (some call them efficient I call them pronounced) and you need a nice deep powerfull sub to keep up with them. If you are using promedia (pc audio/theater) the RSW may or may not be the best application for you. I really dont know that much about pc audio/theater. The Klipsch reference series and most of the subs talked about on this board are for true home theater application, and designed for use with home theater equipment. However the principle of a subwoofer is the same no matter what application. I hope that answered your question to me re: my sub configuration.
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MM
This message has been edited by Marathon Man on 03-08-2002 at 12:28 PM
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Thanks Boa12. Thats the conclusion that I came to as well. thanks again
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MM
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J-malotky,
By the way good choice on the Lexicon MC-1. I use a B&K Ref 30 myself. Sound and Vision did a pretty good review of the Meridian 561, B&K ref 30, and the Lexicon MC-1. The comparison was very close in terms of sound quality. I think however If I did not own the Ref 30 I would have my eyes on the Lexicon MC-12.
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MM
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Satisfied with the testing I have done. Attempting to close thread
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MM
This message has been edited by Marathon Man on 03-06-2002 at 08:20 PM
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J-malotky,
55' will be fine. Im using 100 feet of cable on a split output going to two subs. I have however measured sound pressure using the same sub at both the short piece of cable and at the longer (100 foot) cable and I do get a 2-3 db diff however I think that has more to do with im not measuring at the same locations in the room, and there are going to be acustical differences. I asked basically the same question on the technical questions page of this board, but I take it that no one answered the thread because they probably agree with my assumption. I would say that signal degradation will happen at some point when using long cableing but It will not happen at 55 feet. Just make sure that you are using high quality sub cable and you should be fine.
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MM
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HornED,
The picture of the SVS subs that I looked at belonged to Eq_Shadimar. It must have been a combination of the drugs (perscription) and fever of 102 degrees I was running that day. The flu will make you see things that are not there LOL.. I was for sure that those pics belonged to the Ear. My bad Ear. Eq_Shadimar I will redirect the compliment to you. You have some nice looking subs 3 SVS's in the same corner of the room WOW! I bet it feels like you are getting your *&%$* kicked when listening to a action packed movie like U571 or Jurassic Park III. Ear not to worry, Im sure you have enough subs stacked up in that room of yours to create a small earthquake LOL..
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MM
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JimG,
I am also doing the same thing. battening down the hatches in my theater because the dual rsw's will bring the rattles out for sure. Even at low volumes.
HornED,
I to have been very impressed with threads on this board that praise the SVS products, and I bet its earth moving. The acoustics in my room are really good with the exception of a rattle here and there, and the RSW's give me really good bass reproduction. I don't listen to pipe organ music and for the media I listen to Im not sure if I need anything more earth shattering below 20 Hz, but I am thinking about giving the SVS a try. If I like them I will move the RSW-12 to my music room to replace the KSW-15, and move the KSW-15 to my bedroom system. However im getting a little tired of chasing new hardware, and I just want to enjoy for a while. I have made some major additions to making the room acoustics better which probably makes the biggest difference once you have reached a certain level of quality in your equipment. I will say that with all the talk about the SVS its rather tempting tho. Every speaker in my house is Klipsch and maybe I feel like im betraying the speaker company that I have come to love so much. You all keep talking about the SVS and I might to give in
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MM
This message has been edited by Marathon Man on 03-09-2002 at 11:39 AM
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Ear,
I hear ya. I started with an old Cerwin Vega 10" passive sub I purchased with a pair of CW satalites to be used with a pioneer pro logic receiver. DVD's were not thought of yet. Acustic Research was my first powered sub, and from there it was Klipsch ksw-12, (should have stayed with the AR) then the mirage 1500. Not a bad sub by the way for a small room, but for the size of my room it just did not move enough air. Two ksw-15's followed and currentlly im using the RSW-12, and RSW-15. Regarding hearing loss. As technology continues to advance in subwoofer design, and as I move through my 40's I realized that the ole cochlea does not rebound like it used to especially with the two RSW's.
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MM
How is "Black Hawk Down"?
in Lounge
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Went to see it last night. All I can say is "you have to go see this movie". It is very graphic and violent, and if you have a patriotic bone in your body you may shed a tear. I don't want to spoil,it but it was worth the money and time. Excelent sound effects can't wait for it on dvd. Hope its out in dts es.
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MM