Destiny
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Posts posted by Destiny
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another thing i would like to ask people is the importance of a center channel.
Very, very important. And not just for dialog. Over 60% of a movie soundtrack is routed to the center channel. Without a doubt, the most important speaker in the whole HT setup.
In my family room, my RC-64 gets the hardest workout of any of my speakers, and it can take anything that has been thrown at it.
Bill
Okay i get it... but there is another way to look at it(from a noob like me) that wouldn't it be better to have the "bigger" speakers handle that 60% with more authority? because if that much signal gets taken away then why not simply use cheaper mains with the best center?
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A phantom center is a compromise. For movies, the center pins the dialog to the screen, no mater where you are sitting. With phantom center, it depends on where you sit and the dialog are not as clear to my ears, so yes spending on a rc64ii is definitely better than on an amp.
I don't really have budget issues(for now, but money in pocket is never a bad thing:p). I really don't have the need for pinned dialogues as it will be never more than 2 people watching(me and wife) and anyone else really don't know or care that much about audio. My main purpose for the system is to have BIG sound(a reason for choosing these speakers as well as normally there are 8" woofer cones with towers nowadays). The only advantage i see for a center channel is that i can take it up or down a notch, if a movie has a bad mix(or tv episodes etc). What i would like to know is that would the center channel add or subtract from the setup's BIG sound? i can slightly angle in the large speakers to better target my seating position... would a center channel really be able to keep up with those big L/R mains when talking about the BIG sound thing? i understand that they are matched but the speakers will be pretty close together woulnd't they interfer with each others sound stage a bit? or maybe i should just but it all and shut up... if i don't like it then i can add it to my other setup which is an hk avr 171 with rb 81iis... there is also an option which is more than twice the price, that is the klipsch p27c which belongs to a much more expensive lineup... i might be able to find that in my country and maybe that would be better, but too expensive though...
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Just echo what some folks are already saying. Get a Denon 4520 or similar.
I had the 4311 powering 2 rf7s, 1 rc7, 2 rs7s and 2 rs3s for height in a 25x12x8 room. I watch movies at reference levels quite often and it performed effortlessly. I do have a pair of SVS pb12nsd by the way.
BUT, I was curious if I were missing something, so I added the Emotiva xpa-5, bought directly from the us and shipped to Canada. After calibration with Audyssey I noticed no difference. I decided to keep it any way because it looks cool in my entertainment center.
However, after 3 years, I was able to sell it at even money, dueto exchange rates, so I sold it and have not missed it one bit. I do like the extra cash in my pocket btw
.Anyway, just adding my 2 cents, actually 1.5cents at current exchange rates
.i understand that fully, and i will only go for the power amp only if i have too much of the upgraditus itch or how much budget i have a month from now, when i plan to buy the stuff....
another thing i would like to ask people is the importance of a center channel. The rc 64ii is timber matched to the rf 7iis but is it really necessary? i mean the dialogue in a movie would get better, i understand that, but does anything else gets better with a center, e.g the power of sound or added drivers adding "better" sound or increasing soundstage?i would place the rf 7iis at just the width of the hdtv that i will buy(most probably a 65-75") and that is hardly 6 feet apart.. wouldn't a center channel mess with the sound stage? and a phantom center shouldn't be that bad even though i cannot change the volume of the dialogue if it is low? a lot of money will be saved by this...
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I would go with the 5 chanel Rotel over the 3 chanel Parasound any day, especially if you ever decide to go Atmos or any other mega chanel format.
there is the option of parasound a51 which is five channel... i was actually looking at the 250w/ch rather than 200w/ch and the real world performance is normally lower than advertised even with power amps...
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i am thinking of going with a power amp for now... many expensive brands are available but not cheap ones... i am thinking of rotel rmb-1585 or a parasound a31... which is better? both are expensive though, compared to emotiva
Have you looked at NAD? Some of their amps have adjustable gain which could come in handy.
yes i saw a bit of their offerings but none sort of satisfied me to what i was looking for in the price range... about 3k$ is all i would want to spend max... i particularly like the parasound halo a31 as it can go to 250W/ch, which can really let the speaker combo i am planning on, to shine... I don't want the cost to go crazy, for the whole system, as i have yet to decide on display and also on a sub, which is another long story...
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i am thinking of going with a power amp for now... many expensive brands are available but not cheap ones... i am thinking of rotel rmb-1585 or a parasound a31... which is better? both are expensive though, compared to emotiva
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Let me add again to all that has been said.
If you lived in the US and you had access to the many many many outboard amps available on the used market for IMO, very little $$$, then I would definitely say go that route and try out a preamp/amp combo. Since you are not afforded that luxury the way most of us are, then a flagship AVR would be the place to start. Add an amp later if you choose.
Bill
i can import but that can make it more expensive so if i go the amp route then i would choose something that is available locally(which are the more expensive brands)...
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Again...want versus need.
You will not find agreement on the forum as to whether an amp is definitely something you "need." With a 3.1 like you're planning, a flagship receiver is all that you really "need." Now, would an amp make things sound a little better...maybe/maybe not, and that's where you're finding the disagreements above ^^^. But do you "need" the amp...no. A strong receiver will provide you all the power that you "need" for your planned setup.
But, there's that nagging set of "what if" questions that only you can decide on. If those are going to bug you, then by all means, get the pre/pro with an amp. If not, then get a high quality receiver and just enjoy it without worrying about the rest. A good quality receiver will get you 90%+ of the way there (and some of us may argue that it's even more than that). The other 10% (or less) you may or may not hear...as evidenced by the disagreement here in the forum. To a certain extent, we all hear what we want to hear, especially when it comes to our gear in our room. Go with what will make you happy with your gear in your room.
Best wishes on the decision.
wow... awesome comment... well said and perfectly judged... i understand that the amp might be "very slightly" better and i of course don't "need" it... but that "itch" will always be there to get better and what not...
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What i understand is that the amp will help me get better lower frequencies at lower volumes... is that right? i will rarely turn them really up...
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Destiny,
Welcome to the forum.
You have been given solid advice so far and I am sure more will chime in and add to what has been said.
I completely understand the wanting an outboard amp thing and I am all about that.
The mentioned Denon AVR-4520CI is a solid receiver and is very capable of driving your 3.1 system. On the other hand, a quality AVR/amp or preamp-processor and amp combo will have an easier time with the task, especially in the midbass region. More times than not, a preamp/amp combo will outshine an AVR in just about every situation.
Bill
i am thinking that if i go all out on spending this much then why not do it proper and get the amp.... even if i am sure i will never push them to reference levels...
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I'm with Coleman. Over the past several years, I've owned several amps (200+ watts/ch). A quality receiver will power the RF-7ii / RC-64ii / RS-62 just fine. When I added a pair of RB-35 to make it a 7.1 system, the receiver quickly ran out of gas.
For your setup, a quality receiver will sound great, especially since it's only having to drive 3 speakers. However, in my limited experience, adding a quality dedicated amp provided better bottom end, more headroom and better separation of sound. When I added my first power amp, a Parasound HCA2205 (220 x 5 amp) to my previous RF-83 system, I did hear a difference...but it wasn't night and day. I wrote my thoughts about it in the First impressions of the Parasound HCA2205a Amp thread.
If it is not a night and day difference(especially with a powerful receiver), especially in the bottom end then it is better/more feasible to get a single unit than multiple ones for me. I am sure i will be satisfied. especially not knowing what i am missing...
How big is the room and will you be using a subwoofer?
it is 15x17 feet... not big. I will use a sub, if i find a good one... but i have the itch to push the rf7 iis before i get a sub, to see what they can do... i am more concerned about the mid bass slam as the sub will cover the sub bass region...
Welcome Destiny, you have gotten good advice, and more will come. Will you be doing any 2 channel listening? I say get a pre and an amp and let them babies sing
i used to do a lot of music listening on my headphones, but i don't get the time nowadays to do much music listening, only occasionally... i am most probably going to get an amp if i am itching too much to get the best out of the speakers....
Receivers work fine for the most part at low volume but they struggle at high volume with rock music and crossed over low or ran full range, they don't have the overhead, you can hear it clip during the peaks like kick drums. Certain full range movie effects just sound nicer on an external amp as well.
what i wanted to know was that even with such high end receivers, their amps aren't good enough yet?
What I described was my experience with a $2,000 Marantz SR-7009 on these same speakers. Denon is a little more powerful on the amps but you'd still be better off with an external amp. Again, it's really only an issue with high volume, bass heavy stuff, crossed over low or ran full range. Otherwise I'm perfectly fine with my receiver and a 4520 is more powerful.
i am only concerned about the bass ofcourse... mostly the mid bass slam as the sub can cover the below 50-60hz range even if these speakers are rated to 30hz...
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Receivers work fine for the most part at low volume but they struggle at high volume with rock music and crossed over low or ran full range, they don't have the overhead, you can hear it clip during the peaks like kick drums. Certain full range movie effects just sound nicer on an external amp as well.
I agree to that as that is true for even headphones... headroom is neccessary... but what i wanted to know was that even with such high end receivers, their amps aren't good enough yet? maybe power amps is the best way to go then... a flagship reciver vs an okayish avr+power amps...
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The easiest thing would be to get a good preamp and attach something like emotiva xpa3 with it(even though not available in my country and i would have to import it).
This would yield the best results. Can you find an amp locally?
ofcourse i can... nad and rotel brands are easily available and many others too... but not the less expensive varieties like emotiva... which i can import ofcourse... the thing i find better in power amps is that they can be really good when the speakers dip to something like 4ohms(does that happen when lower frequencies are on? i don't really now)...
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Brand new to these forums, i am doing some research for an upcoming semi-home theater project(not building a proper room for it). I have klipsch rb81iis, which i bought specifically because i would build a klispch rf-7ii home theater and these would be the back surrounds. In my country klipsch is readily available so it was an obvious choice as many other brands are not available that easily. Currently using these rb81iis with h/k avr 171 with my computer which has a sony 42" hdtv as monitor.
Anyways, i am only thinking of a 3.1 setup as i don't care for surround sound much and just need powerful and awesome sound. What i want to research(reading up a lot about it) is powering the rf7iis and the center rc64ii properly. I am not a speaker expert but have been into the headphone audiophile scene a bit so have slight ideas about what is what. What should i power them with? if i get a reciever like denon 4520(hypothetically), would it be enough to power them properly? rf7iis are rated at 250W and 64ii at 200W rms power. The easiest thing would be to get a good preamp and attach something like emotiva xpa3 with it(even though not available in my country and i would have to import it). But if i go with a flagship avr rather than dedicated power amps, would it be enough for them? of course i would want them at their best. They are supposedly very efficient speakers(even though that might not be entirely true as to how effcient according to klipsch) and even an ordinary avr should get them loud enough. But i am talking about considerable difference(bass amount and dynamics etc) compared to 200w/ch power amps even though you only get a 3db gain by doubling the power. According to soundandvision.com the denon 4520 is
Two channels driven continuously into 8-ohm loads:
0.1% distortion at 172.6 watts
1% distortion at 190.7 wattsFive channels driven continuously into 8-ohm loads:
0.1% distortion at 121.8 watts
1% distortion at 145.3 wattsSeven channels driven continuously into 8-ohm loads:
0.1% distortion at 108.8 watts
1% distortion at 121.7 wattsi would guess that for 3 channel it should be 140-150W/ch.
So my question is that an avr like that could get these speakers to give their best dynamics even when there is grunt work involved for them at lower frequencies? or a power amp would make considerable, or at least, little improvement? I am talking about the bass specifically as these beauties should give me a considerable thump(sub bass can be handled by a subwoofer). Or maybe the avr might not be able to handle those dips in ohms. 140-150W should be more than enough even for hard hitting bass and as something like denon 4520cl is/was a flagship so the quality of power should be good as well. I used to deal with sensitivity on the level of 90db/mW in the headphone world not on the scale of db/W and the obvious solution was to get a power source with some headroom. It is already going to cost me a lot considering that i would have to buy them at higher rates(my location) and backing them up with ups and batteries due to power blackout issues(my location) and i don't even have a display yet which is good enough to complement this setup. I don't know, anyone who knows these speakers, advice me.
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i have the he500 and they need a lot of power to shine... hd800 would need a lot less but are about twice the price and quality...
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Powering rf7iis+rc64ii
in Home Theater
Posted
if we take the sub out of the equation and there is an explosion in a movie... how much of that bass will be channeled to the mains and how much through the center... this answer might tell me exactly what i am trying to know.