Tizman
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Posts posted by Tizman
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Everyone is moving back to OT (on topic) posts again. Let’s stay OT (off topic) as it’s much more interesting than the other way around.
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1 hour ago, Shakeydeal said:
If it ain't broke, fix it til it is......?😊
A very good point. The older I get, the more distracted by minutiae I get. Besides, I have a FH1/Eminence 15C + 511B/Renkus Heinz SSD1800 two way with ALK ES600 to tackle first. I just spent the last three hours researching DIY wood Tractrix and OS wood horns that I could use instead of the 511Bs that I have at hand. See what I mean?
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16 minutes ago, Edgar said:
A bandwidth of 26 Hz (±13 Hz) at 148 Hz center frequency is a Q of 5.7. That's a little higher than I'd recommend; I prefer to keep it below 3 or 4. A cut of up to maybe 6-7 dB should be OK at the lower Q, but you'll probably find that you don't need that much.
I just put a random number in of 26 Hz for the bandwidth in that sim. I was really just playing around, and not basing it on any knowledge of the nature of the hump. What does the hump actually look like? Would a smaller or larger bandwidth be more appropriate?
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8 minutes ago, Edgar said:
A bandwidth of 26 Hz (±13 Hz) at 148 Hz center frequency is a Q of 5.7. That's a little higher than I'd recommend; I prefer to keep it below 3 or 4. A cut of up to maybe 6-7 dB should be OK at the lower Q, but you'll probably find that you don't need that much.
I'll have a look at the program again and play around with it based upon these recommendations. Thanks.
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2 minutes ago, Khornukopia said:
The hump was there at one meter measuring distance, but it levels out across the room, so I am not worried about it.
Thanks for that. It would appear that (as mentioned in several posts in this thread) the impact of the room, and the relative speaker and listening positions, can swamp the frequency response anomalies of speakers sufficiently to make attempted adjustments to the measured response at 1 meter unsuccessful. I guess if you are able to adjust on the fly with a room correction program, it would be worth doing and much easier. Maybe it's best to leave it be in my case, especially since I don't perceive any issues.
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29 minutes ago, pzannucci said:
Closer to 4 ohm woofer is 200+ uf cap. 6+MH choke. Uae the amplitude filter. It will show the interaction of the filter with the driver.
The woofer is 4 Ohm, so I should use this instead of the woofer's impedance in the horn, which is closer to 6 Ohms?
2 hours ago, Edgar said:No need to abandon the idea. The important thing is to keep both the Q and the amount of cut low. Don't try to exactly compensate for the peak. Just try to soften it.
What would be an appropriate reduction to shoot for? Is 3-4 DB a better target?
Thanks for the input by the way!
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Hmmm. Doesn’t sound like a plan then.
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7 hours ago, pzannucci said:
To get low enough for a contour, you will need to use some huge components along with having some impact on the Q of the woofer.
I was playing around with this online calculator....
http://www.mh-audio.nl/parallelnotchfilter.asp
and the components are in the 6 mH and 20 uF range more or less. I bought a bunch of crossovers from a theatre redo, so I have a lot of components that could be used. I’m not sure if I am using the calculator correctly though, as I have very little experience with crossover design. I used 6 Ohms for the speaker impedance and 148 HZ and 7 DB for the filter, and 13 HZ up and down -3 DB points. I don’t know if that is right though. (Am I supposed to use the actual impedance of the woofer in the cab at that frequency? Are my -3 DB points appropriate? Etc.) I have these components (and many others) on hand, so it would be a cheap fix if it is doable. I haven’t noticed any issues with the hump, but now I’m curious as to whether it will improve the sound.
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Thanks for your kind offer Coytee. I’ll send you a PM.
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If I remember correctly, there was no comment made by the OP with regard to preamps specifically. I’m guessing that “all modern preamps engineered to be linear sound the same”, would be the response of the OP. I’m sure he will chip in...
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I can try it with EQ, just to see if it makes any difference in my setup, but my preference would be to do it passively, and do it with some of the quality parts I have at hand. My last Behringer crossover made its presence know in a negative way. It’s was noisy and you could hear it in the chain, so I’m leery about buying another Behringer component.
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Thanks for the info!
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Does anyone have an appropriate passive notch filter already worked out for La Scala’s 148 Hertz hump? Easy enough to put it in on a switch to see if it improves the sound.
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The point is that the recording chosen was picked out to support his position, and he chose a bad recording to do so as it best supports his position. It’s kind of like picking a recording with a poorly recorded, screechy and boosted midrange to demo a full range single driver speaker like a Lowther. It’s going to sound worse than it would with a better recording that wasn’t specifically picked out to accent the flaws of the driver. It is not a meaningful test of overall speaker quality. That is not about apologizing for anything.
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A speaker that makes a crappy recording sound good is not a good speaker. In my described recording, you shouldn’t be hearing a tuba through your speakers.
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3 hours ago, Khornukopia said:4 hours ago, Khornukopia said:
Using a poorly recorded song as a demo to point out a speaker's shortcomings seems odd.
Actually, it is a clever way to make any piece of audio equipment sound bad.
It’s kind of like recording the sound of someone farting, using that recording to test a speaker, and then complaining that the speaker made a farting noise during the listening session.
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Notice how ODS123 is quiet when kink56 is posting? Also, the aliens are watching us. 😉
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6 hours ago, kink56 said:
Oh I hear that on my Fortes and my old (now my friend's) ProAc Super Towers. But only the 120hz-150hz hump on the Belles and someone else's Khorns. I cannot imagine that hump would ever show up on even mediocre headphones.
One recording is hardly sufficient to dismiss all of Klipsch's speakers with a smaller bass bin. If this is an actual issue, please provide other examples of recordings that cause this problem.
A hump in the bass response and a distorted recording are two separate things. Being able to hear distortions present in a recording better because one speaker is more resolving than another is not at all an indication that the more resolving speaker is not as good as the less resolving speaker. In fact, the opposite is true. Khornukopia's headphone test would appear to confirm this as well.
It would appear that kink56 is mixing up a response hump with a distorted recording and coming to a conclusion that is not valid. A speaker with the muddy bass response of many DR vented cabs would probably also not resolve the distortion present in this track. A DR with a passive radiator might be even worse.
I will re-listen to the Birds song at higher volume again on my LS to confirm my earlier listening session. I will also listen to the Birds song on my upgraded Heresy II as well to see if I hear it. My Quartets are out on loan unfortunately, they are the closest thing I have to a Forte.
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8 hours ago, Max2 said:
No its there. I don't know if they recorded with a pickup in the acoustic or used a mic, but his hammer on with A7 I think is very harmonic as well as much more of his or her finger work in the song. That guitar could very well have a nasty resonation. The Tune finishes out much better than its starts.
Max2 would appear to agree with this as well.
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6 hours ago, Khornukopia said:
I just listened to Birds by Emiliana Torrini. I used headphones, on purpose. It is a pretty song and her voice is nice.
The very low frequency rumble is in the recording, as you acknowledged. At times, the low guitar notes seem to be distorting or resonating, on the recording. I will try to Zero in on that later.
If you don't hear that on your non-Klipsch speakers, I am happy for you, I guess.
So the problem appears to be on the track, and isn't an issue with the speakers. "At times, the low guitar notes seem to be distorting or resonating", on the recording. Is that correct? Also, according to kink56, the previous song on the recording has the same issue but to a lesser degree. Sounds like an issue with the recording to me.
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2 minutes ago, Dave A said:
Here ya go Tizman 🤣
Right on time, and in perfect form. Hi ODS123! How are your Cornies doing?
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6 minutes ago, kink56 said:
Hey I am going to remain silent for awhile. Maybe the OP will magically return! 😆(for those conspiracy theorists on this thread)
I was kidding around. I do miss ODS123 though....
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ODS123 - kink56
Hmmm. Letters and numbers
kink56 refers to his garage system, but not his main system. Hmmm. Wonder why and what that might be?
kink56 doesn’t include Cornwalls in his okay speakers list. Too obvious?
Where is ODS123 lately anyway? I miss him. No reports on his Cornies either. I hope they are okay. I worry about them.
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1 minute ago, kink56 said:
I cannot prove anything other than to myself. I have no idea what an experience is like for another person. All I can say I know of a few people who cannot hear it even when I point it out to them. So, I cannot account for what other people hear or not, or notice or not. But I am HAPPY that some here have conceded that at least the Belle and La Scala have a 150hz 7dB hump. Apparently that has been proven in a empirical fashion.
Yes. Yes. There is a hump. Plenty of speakers have less humps, and still sound like crap in comparison. Including many on your list.
Advice for Beginners - consider this test from an audio club
in General Klipsch Info
Posted
My inclination is almost always to listen more to those that suggest based on experience, and don’t make hard and fast rules to follow based on third party sources that may or may not be questionable. There are many folks posting on this thread that are DIY inclined. They have done the homework with the goal of better sound in mind, and have gone through the effort and expense to attain that goal. Opening up boxes and putting components in a system, and then quoting a third party to justify these choices is just not in the same league, no matter what third party sources are quoted. I will always listen to the advice of someone who has carefully and thoughtfully applied the experimental method over someone who bases what they posit on a third party. Always.