kink56

Yes, some of the speakers on that list I do not care for. But some others are sublime, especially in the way they can create a 3-D soundstage that seems so life-like. My friend now owns the ProAc Super Towers, I replaced the Ti tweeters with the same tweeters used on Tablettes. These are the best all around speakers I have ever heard. If I lived in my current house when I owned them, I would not have sold them. Maybe someday he will sell them back to me.

So you are going to buy this CD? Well it is pretty good music, but certainly not to everyone's taste. The song Me And Armini has got some pretty decent bass and that song does not seem to excite the 150hz hump nearly as much as the song Birds. Also, as an aside, Birds has a VERY low rumbling going on completely divorced from the thumping sound of the a string on the acoustic guitar that bothers the heck out of me.

Not much, it is evident to me around 70-75 dB. It does not change much in magnitude as you get louder, it stays about proportionally the same. But then again I NEVER listen to my music any louder than 90dB.

I cannot prove anything other than to myself. I have no idea what an experience is like for another person. All I can say I know of a few people who cannot hear it even when I point it out to them. So, I cannot account for what other people hear or not, or notice or not. But I am HAPPY that some here have conceded that at least the Belle and La Scala have a 150hz 7dB hump. Apparently that has been proven in a empirical fashion.

I am only aware of one version. Rough Trade CD 285 copyright 2008.

That's enough about me. I do not want to start talking in circles. I have said my piece on this subject. Let's move on to "all modern linear amps sound the same" again. It is far less excruciating for me anyway. Never heard a Jubilee, but the two-way version really interests me.

That is just one good example. I heard this problem on numerous CDs include a whole host of ECM CDs I have to name some more. It is not a problem with bitrate or mastering. It is a problem that does not exist or exists to such a small extent to the list of other speakers I have owned and posted above. It is a problem inherent to the Belles and most likely the La Scala and I dare even say (gasp) the K-horns, (albeit to a lesser extent).

Sorry wrong quote. I never expected the La Scala or Belle to have extended bass. I have subwoofers, that is a non issue. The problem lies in the 150 hz area, it is a hump that at times can be so bad (depending on program) it almost sounds like a thump in the music.

On page 69 I stated the CD title and artist and track I use to very quickly, and without any doubt, shows the peak resonance of the Belles I had and the K-Horns I heard at another's house.

Well that is encouraging. And they are gorgeous.

But then again I am talking Super Ones, not Super Zeros. SuperOne System Type: 2-way acoustic suspension. Drivers: 6.5" long-throw woofer and 1" fluid cooled soft dome tweeter (video shielded drivers) In-room Response: 57Hz-25KHz +/-3dB. Sensitivity: 86dB @ 2.83V/M. Impedance: 8 ohms nom.,(6 min.) Compare Belles: BANDWIDTH: 45 Hz-17 kHz + 5 dB I would say that the 150hz hump is not eliminated because of the bass extension of the Super Ones. But you know what else would resolve that hump? Rogers Studio 1 Rogers Studio 1A ProAc EBT ProAc Super Towers Paradigm Studio 20 V3 NHT 2.5 ProAc Response 1S ProAc Response D2 Forte I Forte III Heresy II Heresy III Some of these speakers go lower and flatter than even Forte speakers do.

I guess my point is how defensive some people get when I say have a problem with some aspect of a Klipsch speaker. And it is almost always insinuated that it is something OTHER than the speaker itself that is the problem. While this thread is all amps sound the same. It has been suggested outside this thread that it is the amp's fault, or my room's fault, or my setup and placement's fault, or some even take the risk of admitting it is the speaker and only if I did this mod or that upgrade then all would be well. And I see that attitude creeping in on this thread as well. My point it IS the speaker's fault and I resent that some people refuse to concede this. I do not care if they like or prefer one speaker over another. I just do not like to be treated as if I haven't been buying, setting up and being relatively successful in getting a halfway decent sound from my system since before I bought my first Klipsch speakers back in 1979. Any forum dedicated to a particular product would have to be aware there are shortcoming or problems with ANY product that is NOT related to the user's errors or ignorance. The attitude that whatever PWK said or did or thinks is infallible, is quite silly. Now my complaint isn't meant to be directed at the forum as whole. But it certainly fits some encounters I have had here. I put my review of the Belles on THIS forum and The Klipsch Corner NOT be a troll, but what would be the point of such a review on a forum that would totally agree with me? Preaching to the choir does is not helpful or informative. Unlike non-Klipsch people, I do not have a prejudice against Klipsch. I am quite drawn to them. That I hear the 150hz hump and then it is suggested "maybe it is something YOU'RE doing causing this problem" is what pisses me off. And that there are those who admit it is a problem is a wonderful thing. And that they do not care, is just fine by me. But for those who cannot hear it, well that is not MY fault. I am sure there are people who listen to my system that can point out problems either I have not notices or that I am resigned to living with. I would not be insulted if they did.

Yes, I can understand why you would. When it comes to imaging and soundstage the NHT do a better job. In fact I have Super zeros in my garage with a cheapo Infinity subwoofer, the are quite capable of filling the neighborhood with sound driven by a 50wpc NAD integrated. But, I would MUCH rather have my Forte or even Heresys over the Super Ones or Super Zeros. But I would not want the Belles over any other speaker I have ever had in my life. And I am still curious how the La Scala IIs sound. If that hump has been addressed or not. I am still attracted to the idea of the La Scala for some damned reason.

Well at least a few of you get what I am talking about . Not Super Zero, but Super Ones. They are slightly larger than Super Zeros. I do not need much under 100hz because of my subwoofers. So, I have no objection to the Belles not digging deep. I hear the resonance on a lot of my music but the bellwether for me is from Emiliana Torrini's "Me And Armini" CD song 3: Birds. Now it also happens to have an almost sub-sonic rumbling going on, but that is not it. In fact without subwoofers one cannot even hear this very low rumbling on Belles, but you can on K-horns. It has become my go-to for testing bass bin resonances on Klipsch speakers. The bass strings, mostly the A string, on her acoustic guitar really excites the 7 db peak to extreme annoyance to me. On the Fortes it is much less of a problem. It was also a problem on the K-horns I heard at another's house. He did not notice. But then again he did not even have any furniture placed in the sweet spot so I asked for a folding chair. I do not think imaging and soundstage meant anything to him, as he bragged on and on about how his speakers served well as entertainment at parties and how it annoyed the neighbors. And he being older than my 62 years made me wonder of his maturity level. I thought maybe it was that "thumping" because of the bass bin resonance that annoyed the neighbors the most. 😉

I am not trolling. I own two pairs of Klipcsh, but I have owned enough speakers to recognize their weaknesses as well as their strengths. There are those here who are either not aware, or don't care or have simply drank the koolaid and are full-fledge members of the Cult that is PWK. The person who OWNS the Khorns I listened to did not hear the resonance either. And going by what I have seen here, I am sure there are others who have no idea what I have heard. If I were rich, I would love to go to every member's house with my one CD that fully demonstrates what I am talking about, and take a poll on who can hear (or better term notice) what my objection is with Klipsch bass bins.

Yeah, I know it can NEVER be the Klipsch speakers' fault. Again I heard this and others did not notice. I would think that some people are not noticing, regardless the reason. And if several other people did not notice, then it is fairly reasonable to deduce that there are OTHERS who may even be on this board, who do not notice what I am hearing. If it is not a problem, then why are there people who build and install braces to address this problem. I could also deduce there ARE others who notice. Let me put it this way, I would rather have NHT Zero Ones over another set of Belles ever again. That is how much that resonance annoyed me. Fortes with the same exact equipment and placed in the same spot does not have this resonance nearly as much. But Klipcsh speakers do have a reputation for being "boxy". Some people notice, others don't. Some people may notice and don't care. This apologetic attitude on this board reminds me of a religion.

Yeah I know, object to a Klipsch speaker in any way around here means I have to be out of my mind.

In my case I heard this upper bass thump and ANY SPL. If a speaker requires a significant mod to be suitable, then I consider it unsuitable. I went to a person's house who had K-horns and the same problem was present. Although he did not notice it. So, I guess it matters what particular things you listen for or notice. I seldom listen above 80-85 dB. And mostly am in the 70-75 dB range. I bought the Belles because of the almost universal praises on this forum. I learned my lesson in that respect.

I had Belles and the bass bin resonance told me that ANY amp would sound better with a Forte than a LaScalla!

I have particular songs and even snippets to evaluate certain characteristics of equipment. You know the squeaking the strings make on an acoustic guitar as the player slides up and down the fingerboard? Some recordings make no attempt to mask this effect. I have one recording (on CD) where the first one of these sounds like a record needle hitting a piece of dirt on a record on all amps I've tried using this recording, except one. On the one it sounds exactly like what it is, a finger sliding on the low E string. Now all the other parts of the recording any amp can get that sound right. But only ONE amp I've tried can get the first instance this happens right. I have another recording where the guitar sounds very bloated briefly during one run. Some amps make this worse, others make it less so. I prefer amps that make it less so. And ALL tube amps I've tried make it worse so. Another amp that does not get this right sounds most like my amp that does get it right. Other amps I have do not sound much like either of these amps. So, with a double blind test, using the first 20 seconds of this song, I could pick one amp over the other EVERY SINGLE TIME. There is another recording I have, again with an acoustic guitar, that has very light finger picking harmonics. Some amps get it right with the sound emanating from dead center. Other amps smear this transient and the sound is bouncing around somewhere between or to the far right channel and it is much more faint. Again, I could pick out that one amp that gets it right compared to a host of others that don't. I have a slew (ha, ha pun intended) of other snippets of recordings that are dead giveaways for certain amp performance perimeters that are an instant method of evaluation. For other aspects of amps, yes it does take living with them to distinguish between them. When you get used to one, and then interject a new one, the differences are sometimes quite significant. In those cases A/B (pun again) tests are not as effective. And the $10,000 test is not valid for many reasons stated here. I would never even try to win the $10,000 under the conditions set forth. The amps are intentionally MADE to sound the same as possible. And subtle differences, even if they weren't, would be difficult to discern without LIVING with one amp for awhile and then interjecting another for comparison.

Even after contemplating the question, Nigel did not understand and was confused why the interviewer didn't understand his point.

Those Jubes are far more attractive than any set I've seen on the internet before. Maybe I should endeavor to obtain a set someday! Ah, I see that there are two-way, three-way and four-way Jubes. The two-ways you have are the most attractive, and I see they are generally the best for home use. A lot of people put them in corners, but I see you haven't. That is encouraging as I do not have functional corners in the room I would put them in.

That is why I said "in general".

Oh I have both, just not in one set of speakers! If I had the room and money, I probably could get both dynamics (etc.) that Klipsch is known for, and fantastic 3-D holographic imaging that British monitors are known for in one set of speakers.

I wish this forum had a "go to first unread" button like some other forums do.