Niterox
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Posts posted by Niterox
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I finally hooked these up for a listen and they sound awesome!! I've changed my mind and am going to keep them. I don't want to give them up!
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I could add a Denon DRA-825RA to the speakers for another $150. Someone make me a reasonable offer for everything?
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Anyone interested in these?
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11 minutes ago, Arrow#422 said:
Welcome to the forum.
You have some interest here, so what is "your" asking price - or are you just fishing?
Well, someone just messaged me that they usually sell in the $450-$650 range. I'd like a fair price, but I don't want to gouge anyone, either. If I could get $650 for them that would be great.
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On 12/29/2017 at 4:52 PM, garyrc said:
Try optimizing the sub setting first, so the center speaker's sound can cut through the bass, then try some of the below. Each of these changes may make a subtle difference, but they may add up.
- Make sure the center speaker is pulled forward enough so that its sound doesn't bounce off of the cabinet it is sitting on. A 1/4 inch overhang is enough. Just make sure the center speaker can't "see" the cabinet without traversing a greater than 180 degree angle.
- In your case, it might be a good idea to make sure the sub is not against a wall.
- Make sure there are no knees, legs, feet, recliner foot rests, ottomans or poufs in a straight line between your ears and the center speaker. The mid and some high frequencies that make for clarity, detail, and illuminate the fricative consonants can be absorbed rather easily, and don't turn corners well.
- Start out with the Yamaha environment simulator (nightclub, concert hall, etc.) OFF, and only judiciously add it back in after the dialogue is clear, if you use it at all. The filmmakers put in any reverb they think is helpful "in the mix," and almost always only in the music and effects, not the dialogue. Perhaps the Yamaha does not process the center channel? That would be good.
- Keep the room correction off until you attain dialogue clarity. After that, it could help.
- Coffee tables can be nightmares to audiophiles. I prefer to get rid of them. If you have one, and must have one, try putting a soft table runner on it. The primary problem with coffee tables is adding one more early reflection. Secondarily, they encourage drinks and clunking ice cubes. Mike Todd attempted to ban ice in drinks, popcorn, noisy candy wrappers, etc. from theaters showing films in Todd-AO because -- and this is a quote -- "They f**k up the stereo."
- Speaking of reflections, leather, plastic, or glossy recliners or couches may benefit from having thick, soft throw blanket thrown over them. Also, room correction software in which mics are put on seats can be confused by shiny surfaces that are nearby.
- Can you send pictures?
Well, this is all good information. I misspoke when I said the center speaker was on top of the cabinet. It is underneath the cabinet! Maybe not a terrible problem, but the lower face of the cabinet blocks the top of the speaker grill by about 2 inches. Probably not optimum. My other choice is on top of the cabinet, but there are some decorative items in that space and I will likely lose that battle.
On 12/30/2017 at 9:36 AM, RoboKlipsch said:what u describe all sounds fine
the sub. behind a chair or in a corner is fine but if u could try moving it another foot or two away from any near wall u might solve part of it. a sub near a wall can boom at some frequencies and correction cannot always fix all of it. if some midbass frequencies are too strong it will mask the clear voicing u want from the center. i doubt the center placement is an issue but the symptom of one sub sounding like too much screams of a placement or gain issue. if the avr is dialing the sub in a range not at the extreme then gain is ok. if the gain is ok then the placement must be causing this issue.
u could have 20 subs in a room and if properly placed and dialed in would not be too much. it would just be very co sistent throughout the room. so thats my 2c....its the sub
This is definitely an issue as I have it crammed in a corner with one side of it right next to the wall. I can probably move it but I will have to get a longer cable.
6 hours ago, wvu80 said:I completely forgot about that!
The Yammie AVR should also have a setting where the highs and lows are equalized. Reducing the contrast would certainly help with the clarity of the dialog.
I personally like the most amount of contrast because that is how live music sounds, but for TV watching you don't want that because it's too intense to be relaxing, at least for my tastes. It's not an all or nothing setting, there are usually about 5 settings so you can still get some contrast but not the max amount.
It also occurs to me the SPL might not be loud enough to properly load the horn tweeter or mid-driver. My wife likes to listen to sound very, very soft. It's a credit to the speakers that they are crystal clear at low SPL's, but I don't think there's enough acoustic energy to load the horns.
I may have had a breakthrough here. I looked through the RX-V683 Manual for a contrast setting and I discovered a few things. I had set the front speakers to "small", but left the center "large", so I changed it to "small". Then, there is a Parametric EQ section and I had selected "YPAO: Flat", which "Adjusts individual speakers to achieve the same characteristics.", so I changed it to "YPAO: Natural" which "Adjusts all speakers to achieve a natural sound.". I also adjusted the center speaker distance to be a foot closer, which it is. The spoken word is now almost too loud! I am very encouraged by this!! I watched some of the shows we tried last night that were clearly better on the TV speakers and they sounded much better tonight after my adjustments. I just want her to not hate the sound system. I really appreciate all the tips I'm getting here!
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Okay. Finally got around to taking them out of the box. Feeling a little nostalgic.
They look really good for 25-year old speakers!
Here is a link to download all the pictures: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1n1oFHf05CKXBigMvvE_lHklFH2fcLRHR?usp=sharing
Going by the pictures there are a couple of small corner dings on the "right" speaker and some minor scratches on the top of the "left" one. One half of the top of the left one seems a little faded, but not bad. The grills are way better than I remembered.
As far as price, there is not much to go on. There is a pair on Ebay with a BIN of $795. Would prefer a local buyer, but if someone wants to pay shipping we can do that.
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4 minutes ago, RoboKlipsch said:
you have not properly addressed this....i believe it is the sub positioning
if a sub booms it will muddy everything
i have 4 and 6 subs in average rooms and it isnt too much but would be if not properly placed
fundamental setup basics must be addressed first
where is the center channel...perhaps in an entertainment center?
these issues can be easily fixed
Hmm. My front and center speakers are on a cabinet directly under the flat screen, about 14 feet from my chair, pretty much straight on. The sub is on the floor, to the left of the cabinet at about 13 feet from the chair. It is behind a side table and kind of blocked by a chair, but I did not think that mattered? Unfortunately, I don't have a lot of options for placing the sub.
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11 hours ago, garyrc said:
I am looking forward to Dunkirk, but now I'm thinking if the mixers can't produce crystal clear dialogue in a brand new 70 mm production, with potentially the best SQ out there, things may be worse than I thought.
Are male and female voices equally problematic?
If the AVR and pre/pro manufactures would only make the tone controls affect the center channel as well as the FL and FR, we would be better off.
Well, my center speaker was tuned down to less than the front speakers from the original auto setup program. That was a lot of the problem. Once I boosted that it was a lot better.
Something that added to the confusion a little bit is the RX-V683 has this DSP function that allows you to change venues for different sounds: a Hall in Vienna, or a small nightclub, etc. It's not very helpful if the speakers aren't set up properly to begin with!
Dunkirk was pretty good. Mostly male voices, understandably.
I will definitely play with the configuration. I was hoping for a "wow" kind of sound from this setup. I'm sure it is in there. It will just take a little work. Too many of us novices expect a perfect plug and play experience right off the bat these days.
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2 hours ago, garyrc said:
rs
I have a "hot rodded" Belle Klipsch center with a rebuilt top hat and a k401 horn (with the K55X driver and some of the horn extending out of the back). About 1 in 20 soundtracks have muddy dialogue, especially with cockney accents, or other non-mainline British accents. Trainspotting was nearly impossible to understand. We have taken to running the Belle 2 dB hot, which helps but doesn't always cure. Audyssey Flat (which, compared to Audyssey Reference, has 2 dB more SPL at about 2K Hz, and another 2 dB at 10K, and +6 dB at 20K. Audyssey Flat is better, with clearer dialogue than with Audyssey turned off, in our room.
In our case, room correction (Audyssey Flat) helps. A great deal depends on the room.
I still think the soundtracks themselves are the problem. One out of twenty isn't bad, but it should be 0 out of twenty. A decent cure might be turning up the midrange, say, from about 1K to 8K. Unfortunately, there is not a way to do that on most AVRs and pre/pros. Perhaps that is what willand's [is it Bill?] NAD is doing. [Almost] always liked NAD! @Niterox, do you have graphic EQ on your Yamaha for the center channel? To use it you might have to sacrifice the auto-room EQ, so it would be best to empirically compare the two. If you have the graphic, you might try turning up those frequencies between 1K and 8K. One of the very old "presence" controls might do the trick. They were generally bad for music, but now that we have Home Theater, there might be a place for them. Paul W. Klipsch disliked them. He suggested adding "absence" controls.
1I can tell I am going to have to work this for a while. I found a post that discussed using an SPL meter and a procedure to follow. I downloaded a few apps to my phone and gave it a whirl. Then I started manually adjusting after that. I think the sub is too much for the room. I had to tune it way down both after the automated setup and the manual one I tried last night. It seemed to be best when I first just turned the center speaker up from the original automated setup. I'm considering investing in a proper meter.
I set the front speakers to "small". I'll have to check and see if I have an equalizer for just the center speaker. The crossover is whatever the default is now, @dimanata2007 , which I think is 60. The article I was reading suggested changing the crossover to 80.
Interestingly enough, @garyrc , the movie we were watching and having so much difficulty hearing the spoken word was Dunkirk. Lots of accented speakers. The problem, really, is setting it so that even the soft spoken words can be heard fairly clearly, but the sound effects and music aren't overly loud.
I appreciate all the suggestions!
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I have a pair of Forte IIs I would like to sell. As far as I know, they are in good condition. They've been in the boxes for at least 20 years and haven't been used. They sounded great. If I recall, the speaker grills are a little rough. Price, I'm sure, would depend on how they look and whether they are in complete working order or not. I would prefer a local buyer. Shipping would be additional.
If anyone might be interested in these, please let me know. I can unbox them and take some pictures, and hook them up for a test.
http://assets.klipsch.com/product-specsheets/forte-II-brochure.pdf
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I am running 2 RB-61s, an RC-62 and an R-112SW with a Yamaha RX-V683. I used the speaker setup wizard in the Yamaha and then tweaked the base down in the sub because it was just too much. When we watch movies it is hard to hear spoken words clearly, which is frustrating. I can fiddle with the setup in the Yamaha, which sometimes makes the situation better. It is especially frustrating for my wife, who is a little hard of hearing. She'd rather listen to the built-in speakers on the Samsung flat screen TV, which is much clearer voice, but of course nowhere near the richness of music.
Can anyone please give me some suggestions on improving this?
They look really good for 25-year old speakers!
Muddy Spoken Words In Movies
in Home Theater
Posted
Okay, I have come to my senses and decided to keep the Forte IIs I had put up for sale :
Now, can I ad the Forte IIs to this setup as front speakers and make the RB-61s the surround speakers? Is that too much? The Forte IIs sound so good I am tempted to dump this whole setup and just use them!