ODS123
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Posts posted by ODS123
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1 minute ago, Dave A said:
Perhaps it is 200 hours of self assured solipsism. I don't get it either how things like Beeswax Impregnated fuses find buyers at $250 a pop "on sale". Audiogon is a source of amusement and apparently where the crazies go to purchase bragging rights.
You guys seemed bemused by this which is probably the healthier view to take. ..Me? ..I think it's fraud and it hurts our hobby.
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6 hours ago, Dave A said:
It's funny how only in Audio do companies get away with claims about needing "burn in time"..
Why don't the signal cables in Medical equipment, aircraft, and military equipment need this burn-in time before they function properly?
Does the imaging in MRI and CT Scan machines improve with hundreds of hours?? Does control of aircraft with fly-by-wire systems improve with time? No, of course not.
The gullibility in this hobby is absolutely stunning at times.
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13 minutes ago, wstrickland1 said:
how about toxic off-gassing?
Really? ..Klipsch Pro Series Speakers should be preferred b/c of toxic off-gassing?? You guys are too much.
Thankfully, my Cornwall III MDF-ed. speakers have excellent manners w/ respect to bodily functions. ..No discernible off-gassing.
I wish I could say the same.
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4 minutes ago, wstrickland1 said:
Satan invented MDF.
Do you know why?
To give audio connoisseur snobs an imaginary bragging right over the other 99.9% of speaker owners?
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57 minutes ago, muel said:
The idea that MDF is a structural equivalent to plywood is ludicrous! This is a different use but you simply don't want this stuff to ever get wet!
I had a water heater burst a few months ago and thought I was lucky to be home at the time so I could get it turned off right away. Water was mopped up quickly but within half an hour the MDF underlayment started to swell. I'll spare you the details but the end result so far is over 40k in repairs and a week spent in a local hotel. If the underlayment had been decent material the mopping and drying would have been the end of it. Luckily, only the house suffered and not much "stuff" was even touched.
I have 2 pairs of Cornwalls that are over 50 years old... I won't be around to verify but I wonder how many MDF constructed speakers constructed in recent years will survive to that age?
Hasn't this been discussed? Okay, here goes again...
MDF vs Ply water resistance:
Water resistance in a home speaker is of no greater importance to me than water resistance in an Amplifier, CD player, Music Server, or TV. ..None of these were ever engineered to get wet. In all of my years owning audio gear I have never had a speaker or a component get wet. Ditto with respect to drop-resistance. ..None of my other components are designed to be dropped on their corner, so no need for my speakers to be. To me, suggesting Ply is superior because of this is to provide a solution that is in search of a problem.
MDF vs Ply longevity:
I have 30 year old MDF speakers that look perfect - no signs of spontaneous disintegration. Peruse audiogon and you'll see dozens and dozens of MDF speakers over 30-40 years old that have not come apart or been bounced.
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2 hours ago, Dave A said:
So we are back to deflection again? And of course you are still right and I am wrong . See part 3 of my comment that got you riled. "OP is right you are wrong" is the quote you are looking for.
OK see the next quote.
So how do you tie your comment into what I said? THANKS you helped start my day off with a smile once again.
Dave.. Can you please be a little more clear? What do you mean defecting? ..How am I deflecting and from what?? Your posts seem long on anger but short on substance or clarity.
Tactile appeal of the knobs?? I never suggested this should be of great concern to beginners. ..I cited it as one of many reasons why I spent more than necessary to get good sound. ..I like the look, feel, features of my Mac. ..But for years I was happy with the sound from countless simpler and less expensive integrated amps and separates. You seem to think pointing out I have a McIntosh amplifier is some big "gotcha!" but I fail to understand why?
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13 hours ago, Dave A said:
Well you made many defensive claims that the best speakers are made of this by the best companies who choose to use it so just what should my interpretation of that line of though be hmmm? It is the pretentious side of your commentary that invites response at times.
Why did you stop with your MDF days count? I rather enjoyed that.
I have no idea what you are saying here.
My remarks about MDF being the material of choice for just about EVERY speaker company weren't mere "defensive claims" - they are statements of fact.
And I'm not sure how arguing that modern amplifiers which are engineered to be linear will be hard to differentiate is "pretentious." Whatever.
Oh, by my count Corny-L and Corny-R (Cornwall III's, MDF edition) are closing in on 16 disintegration-free months in my home. Thanks for asking.
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23 hours ago, Deang said:
Sure. Buy cheap, but make sure it has tone controls and a mono switch.
More accurately:" if you’re new to this hobby and you’re budget constrained, give serious thought before devoting a big chunk of your budget to a pricey amplifier, cd player and cables. ..Spend the bulk of your money were it matters most: your speakers."
I never told newbies that a mono switch or tone controls are a must. ..A personal preference, perhaps, but not a "must".
I can't believe you have such a problem with that advice.
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15 hours ago, Dave A said:
Also tactile appeal of the Knobs must be there. MDF is the very best speaker cabinet material. OP is right you are wrong.
Again...Yet further mischaracterization. Sheesh, you two guys come across as hostile and childish; not a great reflection on this hobby.
I never said MDF is best and you know this.. ..I simply pushed back on your (ridiculous, imho) claim that plywood is sonically superior and that anything other is evidence that a speaker company has ceded all product decisions to its cost accountants. I said MDF is best when sound is the only priority and Ply is the better when durability is the priority.
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3 hours ago, Chris A said:
All of the recording issues come from different sources, and all must be handled by different means. One thing that I can say: I've never wanted to listen to loudspeakers or amplifiers that "cover up the defects" in the music.
Chris
How do you mean? I would bet that less than 1% of music buying public has an interest in re-mastering their own digital files. So what should they do to make that poorly recorded but otherwise great song listenable?
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15 hours ago, YK Thom said:
unless you want to build a system on which your favourite material may be rendered unlistenable and unenjoyable (what would be the point?) , measures need to be taken. Generally a tube amp is best and easiest solution IMO. Then you get the best of both worlds and reap the sonic benefits.
I respectfully disagree YK. ..I think simple Bass and Treble controls on a S/S or tube amp will go a long way in helping render those otherwise unlistenable songs enjoyable. This is why they were ubiquitous for decades on integrated amps and pre-amps..
When left at 0, or switched off w/ tone defeat, they do no harm. ..But when you get those overly bright songs that make you wince, they can do wonders. IMHO.
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5 hours ago, Vivek Batra said:
Hi Guys
. My Denon volume scale is from 0-98. Even if I crank my master volume to 60 its still comfortably audible and does not seem like noisy whihc is good thing. I am just trying to understand if everything is OK with amp and the speakers?
If I understand correctly, you're asking why it doesn't seem louder at 60 out of 98 increments. Correct?
Modern AVR's use a digital volume control. Whereas a volume control on a traditional analog device may reach 90% of it's maximum non-distorted gain with only 1/2 of the knobs rotation, a digital volume control may need much more of it's incremental range.
This is why when comparing amplifiers people need to match volumes using a db meter or voltage meter. ..Volume knob position is almost meaningless.
So, chances are.. All is well with your setup.
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Perfect recordings are the hope, but imperfect recordings are the norm. ..The problem w/ becoming an audiophile is you become increasingly aware of just how rare it is to find perfect.
That particular U2 song is a great song (U2 naysayers can go pound sand). I applaud your decision to buy an integrated amp w/ Treble and Bass controls. Too many audiophiles, I feel, pass these over. ..I'd use them to whatever good affect you can. ..If they don't help ameliorate the artifacts you're hearing, just imagine you're not hearing them and enjoy the song anyway.
I have quite a few CD's with horrible recording mistakes and I just power through and enjoy the music anyways. To set them aside and never listen to them b/c they aren't perfect isn't a great solution either. ..It would be like leaving a live performance b/c the sound isn't perfect, which is also pretty common.
Enjoy your system in good health
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Rigor? ..How? How did you prevent expectation bias from impacting what you heard?
I’ve shared my own experience with expectation bias before, and I’ll share it again here…
Years ago I bought a Monster power conditioner from my Vandersteen dealer to protect my expensive Bryston amp and new speakers. Though I was skeptical that such devices would improve how my system sounds, I couldn’t help but wonder if I would hear a change. My dealer was adamant that I would. ..So I pulled the plug of the Bryston amp from the wall, and plugged it into the Monster.
To put it mildly, I was amazed by what I heard. My amp sounded better in ways I couldn't quite describe. The sound was smoother, cleaner and just more "right". ..Just to make sure I wasn't imagining things, I switched back and fourth a couple times. Yep, it was unmistakeable! I decided to go back one last time, so I unplugged the amp once more.
But before I plugged it back into the wall my wife called me to another room to help with something. Returning a few minutes later I decided to first switch on the TV to see how Federer was doing during the Wimbledon finals. So I hit the TV power button and…..nothing! ..I tried again, and… nothing. Huh?
It turned out that during this entire exercise, It wasn't the Bryston's power cord I was switching back forth b/w the Monster conditioner and the outlet, it was the TV’s! I laughed out loud but then felt totally embarrassed by just how much I allowed expectation to affect what I was going to hear. Again, I (like you) I thought I had prevented this by having very modest expectations of hearing an improvement.
Expectation Bias is very powerful. ..And there’s no inoculating yourself from it. It explains why Asthma patients who are given an inhaler w/ placebo medication report a 30% reduction in symptoms in blinded clinical trials. -
4 hours ago, Islander said:
It occurs to me that the cable skeptics have never tried any different cables to see for themselves what differences they might hear. The attitude seems to be "Cables can't make any difference, it's all snake oil, so there's no point in experimenting with them, because it won't make any difference." Sound about right?
No... that is NOT true whatsoever. The dealer that sold me my Vandersteen 3A Sigs lent me both expensive interconnects and speaker cables (AQ and Kimber). And I did precisely what I've been suggesting others do. Hook the pricey cables to one channel (L or R), pushed my speakers right beside each other, then using my balance control and a Mono recording I switched back and forth b/w the cables. Not I nor anyone in my family could hear one spec of difference. So you are absolutely wrong about this. ..Sorry. This was partly why I began to doubt many of the notions of audio connoisseurship.
I've asked before and I'll ask again. ..What do you think PWK would think about peoples' stubborn disinterest in scientific rigor as it relates to pricey cables?
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1 hour ago, Edgar said:
I'm currently working in the powerline communications industry. Oh, my; if you all knew just how much trash is on the powerline, you'd power everything off of batteries and never plug your audio equipment in to the electrical network again.
So If we aren't noticing these countless powerline abuses taking place over the hundreds of miles leading to our house, just how plausible is it we'll hear problems over the six feet of cable between our outlets and components?? What would PWK think, I wonder?? After all, we all celebrate his scientific rigor.
IMHO, expensive cabling is the pinnacle of audio snake oil.
As an aside. ..I'm not trying to be disrespectful to those who believe in upgraded power cords. People can believe what they want. ..But those of us who feel this, and other aspects of audio, are complete BS have a right to express our opinions too. I"m definitely opinionated, but I'll always stop well short of being abusive.
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23 minutes ago, Islander said:
The whole vinyl "tea ceremony" can add to the experience. You don't generally put on an LP for background music. You set up the record, play it, and listen to it. No multi-tasking. LPs are for mono-tasking and really listening to the music. You don't do it every day, but it's fun when you take the time to do it and enjoy it.
Likening listening to vinyl to a tea ceremony is an awesome comparison. ..I couldn't agree more. And my wife would certainly agree. ..And hanging vinyl on the wall is way more fun than accumulating 1000's of digital files.
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46 minutes ago, kevinmi said:
If all the vinyl naysayers would spend as much time and money on an analog system, you might find that today's vinyl isn't full of clicks and pops, just music reproduced the way it's supposed to be.
Funny how Best Buy quit selling CD's and is selling Vinyl. More and more music is being remastered on vinyl everyday. Sure, digital can be more convenient, but you lose the whole tactile interface that flipping a vinyl lp over has to offer. And liner notes, posters, etc that come with a vinyl lp. I feel sorry for the digital crowd.
Vinyl is awesome. ..And for precisely the reasons you mention: Posters, liner notes, cover art, etc.. Plus, because it's a pain to advance to the next song, you tend to listen to a whole album side thus getting the sense of the thematic flow and connectedness of the songs. ..Not so with digital files. Nowadays, with iTunes and Spotify, etc.. if you don't like a song right away... vroom! ..Off to the next. ..Which has given younger generations a type of musical ADD. ..If the song doesn't immediately grab them, they'll never hear it again.
That said, I don't think vinyl sounds better. ...I think that's just our romanticized attachment to the format influencing what we hear. ..But at it's best it sounds damn good. ..It's incredible to think you're hearing a tiny chip of stone dragging across a plastic disc. Simply amazing.
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1 hour ago, Islander said:
Actually, if you go from 16 gauge lightly shielded power cables to 10 gauge heavily shielded power cables, it would be odd if you didn't hear a difference.How is it that your electricity travels dozens, maybe hundreds of miles through countless line splices, noisy transformers, etc.. then dozens, maybe hundreds of feet of ordinary Romex through your house, yet the choice of cord for those last six feet of wire b/w the wall and your component somehow makes an audible difference? Why not just eliminate the outlet box and extend the Romex from your power panel to your component? ..Or maybe buy 200 ft of Cardas wire and extend it from your component to your power panel?
Ugh... I don't mean to harsh you Islander. ...But this hobby needs more objectivism.
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1 hour ago, garyrc said:
O.K., I don't know much about the electronic end of audio, so I'm confused.
- The Western Electric mono-block is rated at 80 watts, RMS (or "RMS"), but the meter goes up to 600 watts for the highest peak. (7.5 times the "RMS" power).
- Back in 1977, a revised Dope from Hope (January 1977, v 16, #1) by Keele, talked about amps being capable of 10 dB over the average level (10 times the power). In an earlier DfH the wording was a little different. IIRC, the original read something like, "will pass peaks 10 dB above average, without clipping."
- Yet the IHF Dynamic Headroom for good amps is usually around 3 dB
- One renowned amplifier designer (I think it was Pass, but I'm not sure) said that with well designed amps, the headroom (or dynamic power? or peak power?) would be expected to be barely higher than the continuous power.
What's going on here?
Sheesh, you're right. Excellent catch. ..When I first looked at the watt meters I thought there must be a decimal. ..Like 60.0 Watts. ...But 600??
I sure hope their explanation isn't, "Well, those meters were designed to also work w/ a much higher output amp that we might introduce later." ..That would be forgivable in a $300 Behringer, crown, or whatever budget-priced amp. ..But definitely not a $60k amp. ..McIntosh's watt meters are scaled appropriately for the output of each amp. I would expect same in an amp this expensive.
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13 minutes ago, richieb said:
=== in the heyday of audio buying/selling/trading i.e. the past 20 Audiogon years, how many “boutique” makers of amps and speakers do you suppose have come and gone? I’d venture more than you can count on your fingers and toes. As a consumer you take your chances with the flash in the pan newbies or as you did buy (Mcintosh) from decades old and time proven makers. Is it no different in any consumer purchase - buyer beware?
You are correct, of course. ..But owning a pair Spica TC-50 speakers or a B&K 202 amplifier after those companies closed (as I did) wasn't terribly painful. ..But after buying a $60k amp? Yikes. And yes this is partly why I gravitated toward brands like McIntosh, Klipsch, and Technics - all of which have been around for 40+ years.
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2 minutes ago, Marvel said:
Longevity... the new tubes are rated to last about 40,000 hrs. At three hours a day, that would get me close to 40 yrs. You can get Chinese versions for $150 and up... , but they may now last as long. So ou can go from $150-$700 a tube. My 2A3s run about $80... and I haven't had to replace them in 10 years. Everything wears out at somepoint. Have you used your SS gear for 20-40 years? Probably now.
I wasn't referring to the tubes specifically. ..I was referring to the amp in general. ..What happens when a firm so small and so exclusive decides to close shop. What happens to those who have their $60k (or whatever) amp and it needs repair?
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7 minutes ago, Marvel said:
You really are tedious. Their phone number is listed, give them a call and ask...but then, I know you won't...you really don't get it. The 300B IS a Single Ended Triode. The topology could vary. I doubt you even think about the topology of your SS amps or receivers.
What part of my statement are you replying to? If I call them, what am I supposed to ask? "Uh, hi.. Um.. what kind of assurance can you give me that your company will be around in 10 years should my $60k amplifier need repairs??" And how is their topology relevant?
Advice for Beginners - consider this test from an audio club
in General Klipsch Info
Posted
Sorry but that strikes me as pseudo-scientific pablum. I suggest you try explaining to an electrical engineer how there are differences b/w new and used signal cable that escape measurement but are nonetheless captured by our ears.
PWK would definitely point to his BS badge, I'm certain of it.