ODS123
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Posts posted by ODS123
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Received my replacements and they are perfect. ..No dings/dents and the drivers are all flush against the motor-board.
Thank you Klipsch and thank you all at World Wide Stereo in Ardmore, PA for your follow-through!
Lovin' my new speakers!!
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Cornwall Pro?? Anyone every heard of these?
It looks to me like these are Cornwall ii's? Is there anything about the "Pro" designation that suggests they sound better? The handles and the vinyl guitar-amp style covering suggest they are designed to be more durable and more portable. ..But I see nothing that would imply they sound better than regular Cornwalls. So that would leave collectability as the primary reason for paying the "pro" surcharge. ..But seeing as no one else has indicated any sort of recognition for these, I think even the rarity and collectability appeal may be a non-factor.
They look like their made for dragging to clubs, etc.. What if the horns and drivers were chosen more for their indestructibility than fidelity? In a typical home setting you'd be pretty disappointed with that trade-off.
Personally, I'd buy a pair of new Cornwall iii's before buying these. .
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Was told by dealer today that Klipsch is building me a new pair. Very pleased w/ this course of resolution. ..Bravo dealer and Klipsch
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Whoops. yes, AR. Probably not a lot of spkr manufacturing going on in Alaska
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The dealer is working on it. They're reaching out to Klipsch to see how long until they can get another pair of Cherry Cornwalls. They're also looking into finding a local furniture repair person who can try to raise the dents. ..This was an idea that I suggested. I'd be satisfied if they improve them significantly. The salesperson told me it may take a while to sort this out.
The dealer is adamant that they did not open these prior to my picking them up and I I believe them. So this means this pair left the factory w/ these dents. Combine with this that the previous pair left the factorry w/ one of the mid-range drivers not flush against the baffle and you start to see that Klipsch needs to tighten up their quality control in Hope, AK. I love the brand, and I love how these speakers sound but the fact stands that two pairs of these very expensive speakers left the factory w/ issues. Some here have argued that I'm being nitpicky. ..Thankfully, the dealer does not feel this way. They've said several times, "you paid a lot for those, you're entitled to a pair w/ out any issues."
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28 minutes ago, Schu said:
That's a gross generalization that isn't true...
You're right, I should have said "tended to be" To restate, "Audiophiles tend to look down their noses at tone controls, while music lovers tend to find them essential."
I stand by the rest of what I said.
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6 hours ago, Speedy6963 said:
If you need tone controls you have speakers that are not accurate
Couldn't disagree more. Not to flame but audiophiles look down their noses at tone controls while music lovers find them essential. ..I'm the latter.
There are sooo many recordings of great great music that are hard to listen to b/c the recording itself is tipped up, too bright. ..An accurate hifi system will pass this right along to the listener. Until you can go back in time and re-record these songs, a small turn of the treble control makes these songs more enjoyable.
While on the subject, I also think a MONO switch is essential. ..In the early days of stereo recording engineers would do silly things like have the singer coming out of the right channel while his acoustic guitar would come from the left. ..Totally screwy. ..Hitting the MONO switch will bring the singer and his guitar back together. ..Lots of early Beatles songs were like this.
So my advice to budding audiophiles is always to look for an integrated amp (or Pre-amp) with these basic tools and use them at your discretion.
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12 hours ago, Speedy6963 said:
when the tweeter is outputing over 5db more than the mid, that is bright !
Would be very curious to see how your measurements would compare with Klipsch's. Are you sure there's is nothing about your room acoustics contributing to this?
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I agree but I wasn't talking about amplified music I'm talking about flutes, clarinets, violins, certainly brass instruments and even voices. Sitting or standing beside these long enough can be grating. Having a system that attenuates high frequencies will make these sounds softer but will also render them less life like
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46 minutes ago, rebuy said:
Having a speaker that sounds "lifelike" doesn't mean it has to cause Listener Fatigue.
While some frequencies might irritate certain people and the way they hear things,
that is not listener fatigue. Listener fatigue is caused by a speaker that is
almost impossible to enjoy, one that sounds bad.
The OP said in a previous post that the forte was fatiguing - that it sounded too bright. Perhaps it would've been helpful in understanding what he meant if he told us what recordings, volume level, and how long it took for the fatigue to set in. Just wanting to know if he based these conclusions on music that was bright to begin with. I have been a lot around a lot of live music in my life and a lot of live music is harsh sounding; Almost instantly fatiguing when heard from too close or too loud. That music heard on an accurate hi-fi rig would also sound harsh and fatiguing
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I totally agree that it's pretty cool you customize your speakers and tha you have the skill to do this. We all enjoy the hobby in different ways.
But my question remains unanswered. To put it another way: If you make a speaker incapable of causing listener fatigue aren't you also diminishing its ability to sound lifelike??
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you're a brave man Speedy to do all that to your FIII's!
You say "ZERO fatigue" but what does that mean and why is that your goal?? ..Are you saying zero fatigue at any volume, any length of listening session and any kind of music/ instruments?
To my thinking, listening fatigue is not necessarily an indication that something is wrong. Some instruments and some voices, when heard live and un-amplified, WILL start to fatigue after awhile. So these same instruments and voices played at live volumes on an accurate hi-fi rig will also start to fatigue. ..If you can't provoke listening fatigue EVER on a hifi rig then I would think the system is a bit soft and dull - meaning you're losing some of the music all of the time.
Personally, I alway choose integrated amplifiers w/ tone controls to deal w/ occasional listening fatigue. ..A slight leftward twist of the treble control and a bright recording is suddenly tolerable..
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6 hours ago, nitrofan said:
One of my customers who owns a shop has on his invoices. "Satisfaction guaranteed for those who can be satisfied" I don't know?
..Well that certainly doesn't apply to me. I was totally satisfied with the PSBs, Vandersteens, and Paradigms I had prior to buying my Cornwalls. Each was perfect the first time - no returns, no exchanges. And I am confident I'll be completely satisfied with my Conrwalls too - my dealer has committed to making certain of it.
I'm not sure I'd dig seeing that comment on an invoice of a business I'm considering working with. ..Seems a bit prickly and defensive to me.
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My brand new Cornwall iii boxes are now in storage, but if memory serves the box says something like "S/N ###########16" to be paired with "S/N##########17." And the other box says same but lists the S/N's in reverse order
From the Klipsch website:
"BOOK-MATCHED WOOD VENEER
Each pair of Heritage Series loudspeakers is grain-matched using wood veneer panels that come from the same timer. Each cabinet is carefully matched so that each speaker in the pair is practically indistinguishable from the other. ...Each finished product is inspected and labeled with sequential serial numbers, ensuring that the Heritage Series speakers leave the factory as a meticulously crafted set."
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I listened to the Forte iii's before buying my Cornwall iii's. - they didn't sound bright to me at all. I bought the Cornwalls b/c of the size of my listening space, but would have been happy w/ the Fortes too.
Listening fatigue is not necessarily the fault of your system, nor is it an indication that something is wrong. Some instruments (brass, some strings for example) when heard live WILL start to fatigue. So these same instruments played at live volumes on an accurate hi-fi rig will also start to fatigue. ..If NO music is ever fatiguing after a while then I would think a system is a bit soft and dull and you're apt to be losing some of the music all of the time.
As an aside, this is why I alway choose integrated amplifiers w/ tone controls. ..A slight leftward twist of the treble control and voila, a bright recording is suddenly is tolerable..
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4 Cornwalls Budman? That's awesome! ..And getting 4 consecutive s/n's without an issue is reassuring.
So earlier today I spoke w/ my salesperson at the dealer. He enthusiastically said he would reach out to his Klipsch rep early next week to resolve this. For now, and until resolved, he encouraged me to continue using this pair. There was not the slightest indication of impatience from the salesperson, just a promise to get it right. He knows I want a replacement pair that has been carefully checked for both driver fit and freedom from cabinet dents before I am called to inspect them myself and exchange my pair. ..So I suspect this is what I'll get once another pair is available. I'm very happy for this.
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jimjimbo, You had just chided me for starting a thread that you described as pointless, leading me to then wonder why you were be participating in it? Plus, your "Front door at Indy? Corporate counsel? Bullshit. Apparently nothing better to do?" response to another poster also seemed nasty and suggestive of your impatience with the thread. So reminding you of your option to not participate seemed reasonable.
As for dragging Klipsch and dealer through the mud, I have not done this. ..I love how the speakers sound (have said so several times) and have not been unfairly critical of the dealer. Perhaps you didn't notice but last week I posted a very glowing review of these speakers, it should come as no surprise that I would circle back to share w/ people the issues that arose following my review.
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50 minutes ago, jimjimbo said:
Since the dealer has been working with you quite diligently according to your previous posts, why air this in a public forum? What’s the point?
Initially, seeking affirmation from other audio hobbyists that I'm doing the right thing insisting on a pair of perfect speakers. ..Then, simply answering questions and replies. ..You're free to opt out of thread if you so chose.
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8 minutes ago, JohnA said:
What dent?
I would kept the first ones, unless you could see a defect with the grille on it, or hear a difference.
I respect your point of view but I think $4200 is lot to spend and end up w/ speaker that would be considered an 8/10 on Audiogon, which is ironic b/c the 9 year old Paradigm S8's I sold to fund this purchase were a 9/10. ..They had absolutely flawless cabinets.
As I've said, it looks worse in person. Plus, its sufficiently deep you can't miss it when you run your hands over it.
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They really can't do anything but appease me one way or another, as I'm still within the 60 day refund policy (which is pretty generous) which is offered without any restocking fee, etc.. ..So worst case scenario is I get my money back and simply order through Klipsch. So far, the dealer has not pushed back. I Will call them later this AM. ..I did send an email yesterday but they may not have seen it.
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..Looking more closely at the boxes of my speakers I see that a 2nd layer of tape was laid on top the original. Interesting. ..I'm now wondering if these had been unboxed previously. If so, this isn't a Klipsch problem, but a dealer problem. ..Waiting for call back from dealer. I'll be very angry if these had been returned by a previous customer. ..Unboxing them, it did not appear as though they were re-boxed. ..everything looked perfect, that is until I saw the dents.
My "ask" of my dealer will be that Klipsch triple checks a pair at the factory for fit/finish issues then sends it to my dealer. ..Either I get to hold on to these until then, or I'll take the speakers back now and I get my money back until they arrive.
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22 hours ago, adam2434 said:
I would not tolerate dents on a $300/pair of new A-stock bookshelf speakers, let alone $4,200/pair speakers.
I have a pair of RF-7 II with B-stock veneer, which were discounted 40% vs. A-stock retail price. I was expecting some type of obvious flaw, but they are perfect and I honestly do not understand why they were designated as B-stock. My point is that Klipsch must have high standards for the veneers in Hope, but somehow your second pair of Cornwalls were not held to a high standard, assuming they left the factory that way.
If the dent was in the veneer prior to finishing, it should have been rejected. If the dent was created after veneer finishing, it should have been caught in final inspection, assuming there is a final inspection. There was probably foam protection in the package over the ding area, right? If so, I would eliminate shipping damage as a possibility.
I agree about their veneer being of high grade. ..I carefully looked at bunch of different Klipsch models (inc. RF series) at the dealer and the fit/finish was uniformly beautiful. I also agree about not blaming shipping as the dents in the box do not correspond w/ the dents on the speaker. My hunch is this happened when they set the completed cabinet on it's top and mounted the riser. ..Some debris - like a snip of wire - was under the speaker as they applied pressure to drive the wood screws through the riser and into the cabinet. ..But it should have been caught prior to boxing. I'll let everyone know what the dealer says. ..Meanwhile, I'm certainly enjoying how these sound. Wow!!
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6 hours ago, Hasty said:
At the risk of the ire of board members, these are huge speakers with real wood veneer. A close inspection would probably reveal some degree of imperfecton occasionally. This could have been in the veneer before showing up at the factory.
I'm thinking between the two pairs you had one pair of A-stock and one pair of B-stock.
I'd see if you could swap that speaker with the perfect one from the prior pair.
I think if you saw it in person you'd agree this is both a man-made mark (not just an irregularity w/ the grain) and that it's too obvious to fall within what Klipsch would (should?) consider an acceptable blemish. I didn't have to scrutinize the speaker in bright light using a magnifying glass to see these dents, they were easily seen and felt. If these dents were on one one the sides, I would just live with it. ..But on the top? Though I won't mention the name, both sets of speakers have the same "Tested By" signature on the back. It's possible this person needs to be re-trained.
As for picking the best two speakers from the two sets, you really don't want to do this. From the Cornwall Brochure:
"BOOK-MATCHED WOOD VENEER
Each pair of Heritage Series loudspeakers is grain-matched using wood veneer panels that come from the same timer. Each cabinet is carefully matched so that each speaker in the pair is practically indistinguishable from the other. ...Each finished product is inspected and labeled with sequential serial numbers, ensuring that the Heritage Series speakers leave the factory as a meticulously crafted set."
As an aside, the Paradigm S8 v3s (also Cherry) that I sold to fund this purchase were 8 years old and did not have ANY blemishes on the wood cabinet. ..Only tiny little marks on the bases caused by a vacuum cleaner. I was able to sell them on Agon as 9/10s. While I'm not intending to sell my new Cornwalls for years to come, it's frustrating that I'd have to list this particular pair as 8/10, as of the day I took them out of the box.
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On 11/20/2017 at 5:33 PM, adam2434 said:
Are you going to be able to inspect the replacement pair before getting them home?
9 hours ago, svberger said:Just curious why you didn't ask to examine the speakers before you brought them home?
They were exchanged at the dealers distribution center which was a crowed space with a concrete floor and people constantly breezing by. I figured there was a greater chance they'd get damaged just trying to unbox and re-box them than the chance of getting a 2nd bad pair. Apparently this was a mistake.
This was the dealers last pair of Cherry Cornwalls. ..I'll tell them I can either return them for a refund or have Klipsch send them a new pair that has been triple checked for fit or finish issues. This would take 8+ weeks b/c there are no Cherry Cornwalls in Klipsch's inventory either. Ugh. I'm not looking for a refund or even to pressure them for a discount. I just want two speakers w/ drivers that seat properly into the baffle AND have no dents on them - particularly the top of the speaker! These two dents are easily seen and felt and, as I said, don't correspond w/ any of the dents in the boxes - so these were boxed this way. As for those suggesting I get Forte's I'm not sure why that assures me of no issues. ..They are built in the same place. I'm happy they have no issues w/ their Fortes but I don't think my choosing a different Klipsch speaker is really the issue.
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New Cornwall Issue: 2nd Pair! Feelin' snakebit
in General Klipsch Info
Posted
Thank you all. ..Yes, here's a pic. They sound great w/ everything. From Duke Ellington (Blues in Orbit playing now on my TT) to the Sonics to Pete Seeger. ..I've never been more eager to sit down and listen to music.