GWMoody

I am not familiar with the settings of the Denon 3802 but if you are refering to the classification of speakers as "large" or "small" I don't think this makes any difference to the power output to any of the speakers. The "large" or "small" setting is to tell the receiver if the speakers are capable of reproducing low frequency (bass) sounds and/or whether to direct bass signals to the speakers (if they are "large") or to the sub-woofer (if speakers are "small" and if sub-woofer is installed).

Thanks your prompt reponse - don't you ever sleep? Your first question is a source of great potential confusion to me as to whether I am dealing with the cause or the effect: For speaker level the setup produces a list of levels, one for each speaker. Usually in the -4.0 to +4.0 dBs range. I assume that this is the sound level received by the microphone (which I put at the sweet spot) relative to the test sound level generated. Is this correct? Secondly the setup produces a graph of levels at various frequencies for each speaker. I presume that each one is the level of the sound received by the microphone at that frequency for a the given fixed test output level from the amplifier. Is this correct? I also presume that the setup automatically adjusts the gain of the amplifiers for each channel in an attempt to level these outputs. I am saying that the graph shows the fronts 7.5/10.5 down at 63Hz which I understand means the output is down that much at that frequency. So per your response we can conclude that the room is eating the bass. One other symptom that might support this is that when the setup system calculates speaker distances it finds the sub-woofer to be 25' away whereas it is only 14' away. It gets all other distances correct. Re the THX problem, I have not tried all possible permutations but if the fronts are classified as large no bass goes to the sub-woofer from any speaker. Given my bass hole perhaps I should set the sub-woofer crossover at 80Hz and receiver crossover at 50Hz. The overlap should give me the needed boost. If your system gives you a bass boost at the 50 - 70Hz range why don't you reduce your gain in this frequency range? Thanks agains for your input and I look forward to your reply.

Thanks for your input dougdrake. That is the most data I have found. The test CD places all appear to be still on 2 channels with the promise of 5.1 soon. 7.1 does not appear to be on the radar screen. After running auto setup, there are two areas where the levels seem to be out of whack: (a) the front RF-7s are -7.5dB and -10.5dB at 63Hz and +6.5 and +8.5 at 125 Hz respectively. Does this mean that my room is eating the bass? and why didn't the set up program reduce the level at 125 Hz?; and ( three of the surrounds are -6, -4.5 and -7.0 at 125Hz or 250Hz. Is it worth trying to pull this up? The recever, by the way will give a EQ GAIN OVER warning if the gain is wound up too much (I haven't touched it yet). According to data provided by Colin in "At what range does voice dialect fall?" we probably cannot detect 3dB or less. One final isue is that the receiver setup system will not drive the sub-woofers in THX mode if any speakers are classified as LARGE. This is not true in music modes. This means that we cannot have bass from 50Hz to 80Hz from the speakers. Is this significant? how much of this do we actually hear? Colin's data suggest 400Hz and above is what we hear but I am sure I can hear a 60Hz hum! Your thoughts will be most welcome.

Following my earlier topics I have now sold my Khorns, purchased and installed my Pioneer VSX-49TX, RF-7s, RC-7, RS-7s (4)(except I have 2 RS-3II loaners until my white ones arrive)and a Sunfire sub. The set up system (MACA)for the pioneer works very well but I have a couple of questions which I need help for: 1. MACA sets individual speaker levels and these are then listed as + or - dBs, generally within + or - 2 dBs except the sub which is around - 5.0 dB. (a) Does this mean in reference to the strength of its test signal assumed to be 0 dB?, ( and is the ideal for each speaker and sub to be 0 dB. © There is a feature that allows one to overide the automatic setting. Should I use this to set all outputs to 0 dB? 2. MACA also measures and I believe adjusts the level at different frequencies (equalization), and then shows a plot for each speaker. These are typically + or - 4dB with some odd very high to very low ones. (a) Is this measurement the levle of the output of the speaker in reference to the input being 0 dB?, ( Is the ideal for the level to be the same at each frequency? © The system has a feature to overide the auto setting. Should I use this to bring the level to 0 dB at all frequencies?

Thanks for the advise. I have a digital Radio Shack sound meter bought recently. Should I exchange it for the analogue version? Based on the preference for 49TX over 5800 should I get a 37TX over the 3802 if I get a cheaper stopgap? (The reason I picked this level for the stopgap is that it has most of the bells and whistles except THX Ultra II, HDTV support (bandwidth) and 1394). I am really reluctant to buy the all singing all dancing receiver until I there is a little more visibility regarding IEEE 1394. The 5803 is supposed to be 1394 upwards compatible. But in view of your comments I would now need to conduct a careful comparison between it and the 49TX.

My new HT is now configured. Speakers to be RF-7, RC-7, RS-7 (4)and when done will compare Sunfire signature and Velodyne HGS-18, 15 or 12 in situ for sub selection. The preferred receiver, Denon 5803, will not ship until end of March and then I will need some time to evaluate before buying. Therefore, I will get going with Pioneer 49TX or Denon 3802 (which has most of the features of the 5803). Any comments so far? Do you have any guidance for a logical procedure to setup the system? Front channels first, then surround and then back surround with sub last? Should I get a signal generator to check a number of different frequencies? How best to determine speaker locations particularly distanc apart for surround backs? How should I achieve seamless transition to sub?

I have not seen any technical, sales or pricing information on the SVS Ultra. Where can I find that? How does the SVS Ultra compare to the RSW-15? On paper the RSW-15 looks like a lot more sub than the Ultra. It would probably be best to try to evaluate both at home before I buy. First I need to get the system set up - per HornEd. But even before that I am waiting for the release of the Denon 5803 (It's the only one that may be upwards compatible with 1394).

Following the good advice received here, particularly from HornEd, we have concluded that the job cannot be done without some floor speakers. The Khorns have to go because they simply do not physically fit any possible HT configuration available to us. We evaluated the RF-7 and the RF-3 II for the front positions but it was no contest. We are going with the RF-7 (2), RC-7 and RS-7 (4). Our marriage has also been preserved, for now! We have a Definitive Technology ProSub 200n. Is this an acceptable match for the above or should we look at the RSW-12 or RSW-15. These appear to be extremely powerful and equally expensive? Does one need that much power? The 200n is a paltry 250 watts. Is the RSW-10 the same "Reference" quality? Some suggest two subs. How could one possibly need two of those? Could an RSW-12 or 15 work with the 200n?

Thank you again HornEd, but according to the spec sheets, the RC-7 also has "bass reflex via dual rear mounted ports" and presumably needs its space as well do you think? The RC-3 II's, however, have a sealed enclosure but is going to the 3's to big a price to pay in terms of overall fidelity? Per your earlier request, if this works out the horns will be for sale.

Thanks for your valuable inputs guys. As a result of this we have picked up a pair of RF-7's and RF-3 II's to compare to the Horns and will let you know how we get on. The first problem we have noted, however, is that the Rf-7's need to be 2' to 3' away from the walls for optimum sound. This doesn't work well for fornt L/R speakers unless one's TV also sits 2' to 3' out from the wall. How have others overcome this or should I consider other speakers? Also how important is this separation in your experience?

I have an ancient fully integrated Nakamichi 2 channel system with Klipsch Horns. I also have a completely separate new 65" HDTV, D-VHS tape and DVD. I intend to create a new all-singing all-dancing audio and home theater system from these components. I have selected either the Denon 5803 (a suped up 5800 soon to be released) or the Pioneer VSX-49TX receiver, to be the engine for the new system with Klipsch Reference series speakers (RC-7, RS-7). (My room is 50' by 20'). That's the easy part. The difficult part is that my wife wants the Horns gone and no more floor speakers (apart from sub-woofer(s)). Therefore, I have had to pick the RC-7 for the center and RS-7 for all other positions, including the front L/R positions, because in-wall speakers do not have enough power. Will the RS-7 work for the center position? and if not what alternative do I have given the ban on the use of the floor space? My second question is: does anyone have an opinion or experience with a second sub-woofer for a system like this and if so can or should this be powered with a parallel connection to the surround back speakers (this would save me running additional wires from the receiver to the back of the room).