REFSELLER

Bruinsrme.... you are missing my point, I don't have a problem with on-line selling as a whole, in fact if I didn't get most of my equipment for free or at a GREATLY reduced cost from the mnfgr, I WOULD LIKELY DO SOME BUYING ON-LINE AND IF YOU KNOW WHAT YOUR DOING it can save you a lot of money...my lament is specifically because the trouble in my mind comes from the fact that what I need to know about equipment is hoW it sounds compared to brand X,Y, and Z. Yes, the feature set is important, but I can read about that. But I NEED to hear the gear ,I want the Tweeter guy to take the Klipsch into A LESS CLUTTERED room with a good set of cables hooked DIRECTLY to an amp /rcvr of my choice, next to a similar pair of speakers or two .... In the abscence of a WELL CONDUCTED COMPARATIVE demo people will gravitate to lower-priced equipment , AS PEOPLE SEEK LOWER PRICE POINTS mnfgrs (yes, even "hi-end" ones) will try to be less expensive to be more competitive. Maybe mid & hi-end retailers only have @ 33% of their sales staff who are knowledgable enough (or willing enough ) to go the extra mile and set-up this kind of demo, but compare that to the bb's and cc's where they may have one mngr who is capable of such a demo , and the on-liners who can't do it at all. If I bought speakers without hearing them against SEVERAL comporable models in a controled situation ,I would feel as if I was deluding myself or perhaps hearing what others TOLD me I'd hear.....you already have tons of people who say that you can't hear the differance between amps/rcvrs so they just buy on price/features/power....... I have seen an ALARMING DECLINE IN BUILD QUALITY of this equipment over the PAST # OF YEARS.....Tell me you haven't noticed this as well....the quality of cabinets mnfgrd in mexico and china IS NOT CONSISTANTLY IMPRESSIVE.....

Actually, I work for a somewhat similar B&M and buisness is growing. As the equipment becomes for difficult to understand, more installation is neccesary, more prone to break,etc., we have been doing so much more because of the service we provide......Some people will build their own deck, I have built a few, but I'm at a point in my life when I am willing to pay the experts who are better equiped to do some of the more difficult "special" parts of the installation.... However, I am fearfull for the higher-end hobbyists/enthusiasts/audiophiles, because as this industry (home A/V) is starting to explode the hobbyist keeps running to the "deals" and may not think he needs the services of the high-end shop, the shop then focuses more to the mid-fi customer who needs and can be charged for the services, as well as the super rich who just throw money at their desires .The shop starts to carry more protected lines and the stuff that's available cheap on-line gets harder and harder to hear and the problem starts to perpetuate itself as some of these companies focus on e-marketing and price point rather than comparative quality which no one is asking to have demoed for them anyway........

I would say that this could also be said of differant rooms in one's house or even differant placement within the SAME room....I would say ,though, that it is the comparison between several speakers in the same environment with the same source GEAR and demo MATERIAL that is INVALUABLE.....Now, if one has the means, time ,assistance, money, and knowledge of proper set-up that would be neccesary to accomplish this kind of blind a/b/c comparison in one's own home then , without a doubt, this would be the ideal and I have done this very often in my own home .......

I think that there are good "on-line only companies" and bad "on-line only" companies, I just can't imagine buying audio without extensive ,comparative listening......

no ,I am NOT tired at all...... I am not speaking for my place of buisness , nor do I try to drum up buisness for myself on other forums. I am merely voicing dissatisfaction for what I feel is going to happen to a vendor that I liked doing buisness with and a company whose product I enjoy....If you feel I'm beating a "dead horse ", I am sincerely sorry, but I feel that there is still time to change minds at Klipsch...I heard they are reconsidering Sound Advice and one other small chain retailer in regaurds to these new stratagies....I hope that my ,as well as others, expressed dissatisfaction with their marketing plans may cause a re-examination......

Best Buy sells crap to decent stuff. Not everyone out there wants to spend a ton of money on big speakers, much to your disbelief. products at BB get far more exposure than they do at a tweeter. Do you think the majority of families with 2 kids and a mortgage are going shopping for a 3-5k surround sound system? Maybe klipsch wants to become more mainstream and through home entertainment for the average consumer and computer user. ????????????????????end quoter,,,,,,,,,,,, My complaints stem from the knowledge that the way we used to sell the ref line was to demo the synergy vs the ref and show customers the value of spending a little more money, now that's gone ,because bb knows that people will hear the ref and klipsch story at the higher -end retailers but, in the abscense of comparison, gravitate to the lower price points at bb....this strategy is a negative for the retailers who can give a proper demo.... if you like the idea of buying speakers on reputation without a demo , they can "show" you Advents and KLH at bb

......."smaple".............. they won't ever put vinyl covered speakers on the list, and by the way is "smaple" a new vinyl veneer?

Oh the shame, Oh the shame! It's amazing that people keep forgetting that perception IS reality!!! BB CAN'T DEMO, THEY CAN'T SELL ON QUALITY, THEY CARRY A LOT OF JUNK, THEY PUSH THEIR VENDOR PARTNERS TO KEEP HITTING LOWER PRICE-POINTS, and people wonder why there is guilt by association.......Wait until salesmen in the higher-end shops stop pushing ref speakers for these and other reasons and then these retailers stop carrying them altogether....... God their not even available at bb yet and even the die-hard loyalists on this board are "dissin'" them.........

well, well, it seems there will be some caviats to the new distribution plan! I wonder what the pro group thinks about all this?

well, well, it seems there will be some caviats to the new distribution plan! I wonder what the pro group thinks about all this?

what about magnolia & tweeters? any chance they will keep the ref line or did bb make some kind of condition to aquiring the line?

why is Klipsch so different and up until now still on your sales floor? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they're not and they probably won't be soon....(I don't make that call, but most salespeople will probably be less anxious to support them now)

ultimately it will be the audio entusiasts who will suffer because the only gear that will be "auditioned" by mid to hi end retailers will be gear that is HEAVILY protected in it's distribution, and the gear that is available only on-line and in low-end "no-proper-demo-available" mass merchants like bb and cc will begin to offer more and more features and attractive prices, but less and less quality...so , dig your own grave... ///////////////////// I have repeatedly stated that I agree with your premise regarding the mnfgrs, I would just like to hear whether or not you agree with the one above?...ultimately it will be you the consumer who suffers......

Scott, WHAT WE have done is to simply stop carrying lines that are heavily promoted on-line at severe discounts....It doesn't make sense for our salespeople to demo a product that the customer can find from a wharehouse at a severe discount....When a customer recently asked me why we don't carry "brand x", I said " do you own any of their products ?"...he said yes and I asked where he purchased it .He stated that he had found it on-line and I said, "that's why!" ...that company will no longer get a listen in my store...

Phil, is there any truth to the rumor that Sound Advice will continue to carry Klipsch?...if so, what are the printable details and why in some tweeter affiliates and not others?

still no confirmation on this sound advice renegotiation, what gives?

Store w says hey whats going on here. Reply we will look into it and find out what is happening. Perhaps the fatguyinNY is getting them from employees going out the back door? Maybe but there are too many widget accounted for in our inventory system. .........great quote.... Yes, you have an understanding of some of what is going on with the mnfgrs like denon and klipsch , I think what others are saying is that ultimately it will be the audio entusiasts who will suffer because the only gear that will be "auditioned" by mid to hi end retailers will be gear that is HEAVILY protected in it's distribution, and the gear that is available only on-line and in low-end "no-proper-demo-available" mass merchants like bb and cc will begin to offer more and more features and attractive prices, but less and less quality...so , dig your own grave...

If I paid full retail for my HT stuff, I would have RF3, RS3,RC3, 49txi, TEAC DVD, RSW10 and a WEGA xbr But instead I have Pioneer 49txi $2800 (on line) 47ai $750 (on line) RF7 $1500 (tweeter clearance) RC7 $643 (tweeter) 2 sets of RS7 $1100 2 SVS PC+ 2039 XBR (Tweeter) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^end quote I agree that the mnfgrs bear the brunt of the responsibility, but don't you like having a B&M to demo gear in?

Yeah, I'M curious myself as to why this had to happen

I do appreciate you coming onto the board and implying the people here "bottom-feeders". Trust me, the implication is there, whether you admit it or not..............endquote..... I'm not sayingwho here may or may not be "bottom-feeders", they know who they are........ I'm sure that the VAST majority of posters here bought from an authorized retailer, and were intelegent enough to let their own ears decide... I would also doubt that anyone here would avail themselves of the demoing opportunity that a b&m provides, knowing they are going to buy from someone who doesn't offer this opportunity....yeah ,o.k..... If you take this to it's natural conclusion there will be fewer and fewer places to A/B gear and my friends e-marketing company that posts on many forum under hundreds of differant names will become your new on-line friends... the 16 year old cheerleader you are in the chat rooms with rarely is what she (or he) claims to be ,neither is the so-called faceless experts....but my friend the e-marker is an expert and the stock copy (modified for each post) really does offer great insite and earns him money from mnfgrs and e-tailers ........ caviat emptor....

I rely on product opinions on this forum and the reputation of Klipsch gear in general to guide me............................ I find the above quote disturbing.... e-marketing is the art of telling you that the guy with the watches under the coat is great and that there is nothing wrong with his watches and that he stands behind them.... "bottom-feeders" feed on the need to make themselves and others believe that it's not about cost and that they KNOW they made a good decision And they don't have to let their own ears decide...they can trust the faceless multitudes on-line....

Hmm, is this beginning to sound familiar? a.p.i. makes a range of speaker lines, including a "boutique" line (Mirage i know, others i haven't heard of) which they sell at Showcase Entertainment (part of Tweeter/SA) along with an entry level line which they sell at Best Buy. Deja vue all over again? Not really, I guess, since no one knows (or few know) that Athena and Mirage are the same company... *****************************end quote A.P.I DOES OPERATE THESE ENTITIES LIKE COMPLETELY DIFFERANT COMPANIES, AND ALL THE MIRAGE AND ENERGY SPEAKERS ARE MADE IN CANADA....THE TECHNOLOGY IN ALL THESE BRANDS ARE DIFFERANT....

There have only been a couple of products that I've ever seen from Klipsch that were made outside the US., I too am curious if this will change....

Tweeters carries monitor audio and paradigm in some of their regions but B&w does not want to deal with anyone but a specialty/-boutique type showroom.....I hear that Tweeters are soon to have Martin Logan in all their stores, and that ML will be expanding their offerings with lower price-points...

Yeah, what Tweeter and Magnolia is doing is just great for all the rest of us Klipsch ref dealers!....They'll take every potential fence sitting customer out of the market for a year....between that and the fact trhat I won't be able to A/B synergy vs. REF anymore, I think some salespeople in our store suggest we cut our losses, dump the line and move on...I'm not going to be enthusiastic about showing them any more....guess I'll have to get a new I.D. ...SEE YA