Jer_Hy

Thanks! not quite sure what shunt inductor does, but I'll look into it. What would the outcome of adding one? They are 1823 drivers that read 8 ohms. the K55s on my 1977 Khorns read about 10.5 ohms

I’ve been wanting to hear the difference between the standard K400 horn and a different variety so I picked up this pair of horns a few weeks ago. I’ve seen a few posts from almost 20 years ago claiming some success using them as the midrange in the Klipschorn, so I figured it would be worth a shot. I really wanted to be able to A/B between the two horns so I’ve hooked up a on/off/on switch between the output of the midrange from the crossover to the two horns. Very excited to listen for a while switching back and forth. The only improvement I now want to make is rather than two switches on the top hats, having just one that I can control from listening position, but I haven't quite thought that through yet. My initial impression is they are more similar than I had imagined, with the biggest differences from the EV’s being a small boost in 2500-5000 range and a dip in the crossover point between the bass horn and the mid range. Over all the effect is a heavier low end and some nice clarity in the upper midrange with a slight lack in the deeper end of the midrange. If after some time I continue to enjoy the EVs I may create a top hat for them, and mount the tweeter directly above the horn mouth using the bracket holes placed by EV for their tweeter. This is all running on a basic setup of mixer -> power amp -> AA crossovers with Dave A’s smahls in place of the K-77s (they were fried when I bought the Khorns)

hehe, I definitely understand that! In this case I did end up selling...but it was the heresys that went. The Quartets will be here for a long while, and after dealing with some kind people here who gave me some great guidance (Chris A) and great gear (Dave A) I think I'll keep tweaking the Khorns gradually. The room is undersized after all, so I may end up trying out top options like a different midrange horn all together since I work in a fabrication shop frequently.

If the Khorn top hats are behaving normally (and I now assume they are because I have 4 of each driver and they all sound about the same) plus new caps in the crossover, it seems the area that I feel is most recessed in the Khorns is around the K55V-to-K77 crossover point. This was only reinforced after more rounds of A/B listening with the tweeters disconnected on both the Quartets and Khorns. Musical reference for those who are interested: I played the Brenda Russell song "Way Back When". The Quartets capture a lot more detail in the string section; I noticed some nice little glissandos that I wish were more present in the Khorns. The room sound around the vocal also feels more lifted and spacious. In the Khorns, the strings sound more monolithic, much deeper in the mix, and the voice is more chest-focused, with the room sound at once larger but less defined. Again, this is with tweeters disconnected. Seems widely agreed upon that the K55v cuts out lower and more irregularly than most modern drivers (even my simple field recorder noise test shows a void at 5K), so if my goal is to smooth out my perceived dip/irregular response from 5-10k, seems I could: mechanical eq new tweeters with either the same lens or a different one new midrange drivers change the crossovers So I'd be interest in hearing anyone's experiences or recommendations,

This eve I played some white noise through a single quartet and klipschorn b2b with the tweeters disconnected in each, but still running through the crossovers. The Klipschorn is using the replacement capacitors from JEM. The quartet is stock. Attached is what that recording look liked, and I'll share the recording if it's of interest. The sound of the Klipschorn was more grainy and dark from my vantage behind the mic (a tascam field recorder placed equally between the two). the recording: https://freesound.org/people/JQJ/sounds/562606/ the quartet: the Khorn:

It's also occured to me that even testing the quartets in front of the khorns must be having a huge effect on the lowend. If the khorn bass bin is designed for maximum sensitivity then the passive radiator of the quartet placed about 3 inches from the face of the khorn is most likely loading the khorn bin. In essence am I using a quartet inadvertently with a passive corner loaded bassbin ? not trying to think outside the box...but literally thinking outside the box...

heya, square mags 6.7, alnico 6.2 ...have tried both and while there is a slight difference the overall tonality is not greatly improved. But even the set that is clearly tired-sounding measures 6.5. I have also switched out the K55v, the originals measure 10.8 DCR, the "better/louder" ones measure 10.5. It has made a noticeable difference in the midrange, certainly clearer, tho still having issues with general tonality. Too true! I didn't know about the phase shift, but it makes sense with the folds. bass and phase are such a beast. I remember chatting with a tech at the 9:30 club in DC about it because they have their subs stacked facing forward and backward for some kind of room/phase/tuning issue. I'll have to do some research on that! There are two common musical attributes that seem to be different (and less appealing) in the Khorns (as compared to the quartets) across the board. 1 being a general lift in the highs on the quartets that translate to more musical-sounding cymbals and breathier vocals; after switching out the drivers, this now feels reasonable and more taste-driven. 2 being a lack of cohesion in low mids to bass region. If i had to guess, somewhere between 250-80 hz. the quartets feel more cohesive in this range. When I A/B from the Khorns to the Quartets, I experience a shift in focus where this range lifts and glues the music together a bit. That's not to say the Khorns aren't clear, they are just very clear in some regions which almost pushes some of that low mid into the background. I have been wondering if it's simply this speaker design in my room, because if the Khorn is designed for maximum dynamics it would make sense that a smaller speaker that mechanically compresses a bit would glue music in the same way a mix engineer uses compression across the mix bus. thanks all for the time taken to ponder these issues

After some A/B testing between a few sets K77s it seems as though the pair originally in the Khorns was a bit dull and quiet, compared to another set of alnico and a set with square magnets. so after swapping them out things were slightly clearer in the highest octaves. Tested the ESR in the caps and they all read within .3 of spec, decided to replace them anyway with parts from JEM just in case, but after doing one and comparing the two Khorns still no discernible difference. So i supposed my ears just like the voicing of the quartets a lot! The preference does seem program dependent, an early joni mitchell song may like the quartets, but a ricardo villalobos track sounds deeper on the Khorns. I do have a smallish room so that must factor in a bit as well, but I'll be hanging onto both for awhile.

They are sealed well, stuffed into a false corner in a real corner (baseboard heat) Here is the signal chain: technics 1200mk2 -> allen & heath 43c -> from here I used the main outs the Khorns and the Booth out to the Quartets for testing. Amps for each: b&k 125.2 S2-> Klipschorns Hafler P3000 -> Quartets (note: I've flipped the amps and outputs just to double check there wasn't any audible difference between the booth and main outs /hafler and B&K amps) If i want to listen to digital music files I can use either 43c as a soundcard or I can use the line inputs for whatever else. It's a pretty fantastic little mixer for a lot of different use cases thanks for the link also! I really do think the crossovers might need help, I was thinking exactly the same thing, Do one and compare. I've done a bit of soldering for work and this seems very straightforward. One question I've been mulling over is whether to do the kit or just buy new crossovers and keep the originals completely intact, mainly for allowing them to be fully original if ever needed. When I got these they even came with the original instructions (attached)

Ack, I meant assess! if you've done any testing work in the past

Any thoughts on how to access a crossover on the Khorns?

Thanks, I too expected a sound signature to run through the Khorns, Quartets and heresys. The Quartets and Heresys definitely were in the same ballpark, so it seems the crossovers on my klipschorns may need servicing, the tweeters are just hardly there yet reading 10ish ohms. Even swapped the amps.

the tweeters are only about 10 inches apart so unfortunately I don't think it's a matter of position. of course it is, I spin records! they're a lot of fun, and if you're into spending big money on them you can!! thanks for this! unfortunately mine can't, but thanks for pointing me in the right direction. love this, PWK knew how to lead....with the ears!

@ricktateI haven't rebuilt the crossovers, crossover and speakers are from 1977. I do have a cheap multimeter, but I've never tried testing capacitors. I'll see if I can get a handle on that. Not looking to blindly spend on crossovers but if something is way out I'm keen to replace it.

@baron167 nice to see another marylander. yeah very odd, I don't want to say sounds better, but way more different in the high-end than I would have imagined. When I ran pink noise the Khorns sounded like they had extra cloth over the tweeters My eye is on the K-77 tweeters for why they are feeling for lack of a better word dull next to the quartets. I got out the multimeter, and they do seem to be in the correct ohm range. I actually tried a pair of heresy 1s as well, those include new crossovers and diaphragms from Crites, and they too did not sparkle quite like the quartets, very odd.