NotThisChris
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Posts posted by NotThisChris
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On 5/27/2020 at 5:38 PM, NotThisChris said:
I’ve been sitting on my tush I still have no answer for the rear covers for the horns. And by that, I mean I haven’t applied any answers given or applied myself at all there. My focus for now is a friends amplifier that needs to start working.
14 minutes ago, jorjen said:What do you mean by " I still have no answer for the rear covers for the horns "? Do you mean how to go about it in general? If that is the case, what I would envision doing if they were mine really could not be much easier.
I actually have many answers but they will be decided upon later. I purchased the mini dsp crossover and a u mik1 used from a local seller, at some point I will be setting it up and at that point the cover will be turned or fabricated. I’m not really in a hurry however. -
Another update.
I found a pair of Canton Ergo 900’s and Klipsch Heresys at Goodwill for about 60 bucks total. I’m now focused on these because I legitimately can’t believe I stumbled upon this.
It makes me feel bad because I put the Cantons next to my corn horns and they wipe the floor In about every way with them. Although, they are a bit bright for my tastes.
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Just a mild update.
I’ve been sitting on my tush enjoying what I got so far. I love them. Crossover settings are currently 700hz, and woofers phase Inverted only because I think I reversed the transformer leads on my 6AV5 amp. (I built them both).
I tried the resistor capacitor combo for treble but ultimately decided that I will be shelling out more dough for a minidsp 2x4. I love the shear amount of customization, minimal footprint, and it sort of matches my Bluesound Node 2i. Nothing wrong with my DBX unit other than it matches nothing I own and it’s basic.
I still have no answer for the rear covers for the horns. And by that, I mean I haven’t applied any answers given or applied myself at all there. My focus for now is a friends amplifier that needs to start working.
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5 hours ago, mustang_flht said:
So you played?
😃
Not yet
I’ve been busy with work. Tonight for sure.
4 hours ago, Marvel said:While you are using an active crossover, to be better optimized, the woofer output should be delayed to match the tweeter at the crossover frequency. There will be a smearing as both components play back the same frequencies at different times. The original horn, being shorter wouldn't be as noticeable, but the time differences become more obvious as the frequency goes up.
How do I accomplish this? Via a stand alone time delay device or do I need a better crossover? What would you suggest?-
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25 minutes ago, moray james said:
Altec 811b and 511b have a very well known and much documented history of ringing inherent to the horn design itself which is virtually impossible to eliminate. This dates back decades and decades and is all over the internet if you care to search for it. You name it and it has been tried to eliminate the ring. It is still for the most part a satisfying horn to listen to so as long the ring does not get under your skin and some guys are fine with it life is good. I only mention it so you can better decide to what length you will choose to work with it as a project. There are better horns with wider bandwidth available. In the seventies I badly wanted a two way Altec with the 511b horn but by the 80's I had totally lost interest in the horn. If the price is right and you are happy then no worries.
Not to imply I have a magic cure, I learned they rang when my daughter snuck up behind the cabinet and shouted through the horn.
Most of the ring went away when I used a foam seal around the mounting plate of the horn to speaker cab. The rest went away when I slapped some plumbers putty on top of the horn. BUT, I only push a watt through them, and usually half volume. At full volume they still ring. 🙃
I am happy but I’m a tinkerer so I’m never truly happy. The whole concept was to build stuff with the hand I’ve been dealt. I expected they would sound like butt, but they have surpassed my expectations and then some. Now it’s just tweaking and learning to have the knowledge someday to build my own set, maybe transfer the speakers to not so damaged cabinets. -
4 hours ago, mustang_flht said:
if you are lacking treble, you can put this on your Horn driver B&C DE250 = 1 capacitor from 1 to 0.5µF (you can even try to go down to 2µF) and a resistance in parallel of 1 or 2 or 3 ohms or even more, some goes up to 6 or 7 ohms. You have understood that the values of the components are to be refined according to your tastes.
! Attention, to refine it will then be necessary to adjust the general level of DE250 on the active filter
Thank you for the reply and information. I’m guessing this boosts the upper high frequencies without making the midrange unbearable? This will come in handy now that I have moved the speakers out of the room and into the living room. I have those resistors and capacitors to play with, maybe tonight I will mess with it.
They are 90 percent done. I still need to build a back cover for the Compression driver. When I settle on crossover settings, I may look into converting them into passive but that’s a long ways away.
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So, out of curiosity, does anyone have any experience with time alignment? A crossover that I found for sale has the ability to time delay a specific speaker. Is it futile without equipment to measure results or can I adjust by ear?
Ultra-Crites. Yeah. Gonna need. A sponsorship for that one. All jokes aside, I did just buy some 3636 autoformers from him. I’m not sure he would want his name on these... things. 😄
Besides, my friend already named them Cornhorns. 🙃 I’m getting it engraved in brass.
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1 hour ago, moray james said:
make sure you leave a large open volume of air inside the cabinet which directly couples the vent to the woofer, this volume of air is necessary and it must be open and free to resonate as it is this resonant energy of the air which lets the woofer drive the vent into sympathetic reflex action. If you were to fully stuff the cabinet the reflex action would diminish dramatically and you would lose bass weight.
Back in the seventies I had a pair of Altec A7-800 and I really wanted to switch up to the 511b horn but just did not have the funds to cover the expense of all the components necessary. I had spent some time listening to the 511b and much preferred it to the 811b. That was a long time ago and today's modern horns are so much better in every way.
Thanks for the tips. My friend gives me shredded denim pads that his food service uses to insulate food. It does pretty well for the walls, which I intend it to go. Only the walls though. I say stuff but a better term is probably lined.
I actually had no desire for altec anything. I got them as a package deal, the gentleman previous had them on top, which seems like a sensible idea. I am not sensible however, and always wanted a two way speaker. I’ve come to love klipsch through my desire to build tube amplifiers, which sound lovely with klipsch heritage stuff. Really cool on the A7’s though!
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9 hours ago, Marvel said:
I agree with Randy on this. Even though the cabinet is ported, you don't want any air leaks around the compression drivers. I can't tell how far they protrude, but a piece of 3/4 inch ply with a cut out and then another piece to cover it would be fine and not hard to make.
I could honestly take an inch ply and hollow it out a bit. It’s only about 1/4 inch protruding. It will happen after I finish stuffing the cabinet walls with damping material.
To touch up on your weight comment, I had a pair of klipschorns and La Scalas at some point. It’s just odd with a Cornwall.
So, all seriousness aside, Cornwaltecs or Voice of the Corn? 😃
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After an hour or two of listening and tweaking I can say with confidence that these woofers are some capable pieces of equipment. AB’ing the woofers alone, They are flatter in response, balanced but powerful. I guess cohesion comes to mind with the horns. Only negative is my Cornwalls now weigh 100 pounds+. I’m a bit tired now but here are some more photos of the project as it’s taking shape and form.
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An update! I found a pair of Turbosound LS-1506 15” woofers, apparently equivalent to a precision device woofer of some kind. Anyone heard of turbosound? They were free, for the most part. They are humongous, cast aluminum frame, and sound pretty damn good.
The crossover sounds nice as configured. I plan to address the amplifier issue at sone point. This was just a luck find.
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3 hours ago, moray james said:
if your amps are stereo blocks then simply use one stereo block per speaker, right channel woofer left channel tweeter problem solved adjust any left to right output level difference with the active xover. done.
Actually I intend to use a separate amp for lows and highs. I think I can do that with this. I don’t have enough TRS to RCA connectors so I need to buy more tomorrow. Just running one speaker, some observations:1. Transparency is present now.
2. The crossover sounds much better at 700 hz.
3. Taking the Highs down 10 dB balances everything very well. A click Less or more and the sound goes out the window. Go figure, one is roughly 10db more sensitive.I probably would have given up if I stayed passive. Thanks for everyone’s suggestions to go active. I need to acquire wood at some point to finish the rear of the cabinets.
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3 hours ago, moray james said:
crossover point is not the issue the slope is the issue (not saying it is the best point but it's not a bad choice for your driver). Trouble is that at 1800 Hz. your woofer output is only 6 db down in level from the xover point of 900Hz., at 3600Hz it is only 12 db down do you think you really want o be listening to this? along with the scattered dispersion from such a large woofer with waves that cancel and those which couple you are going to have a loudspeaker which will not disappear. Using an active xover will let you easily find the best crossover point and slope as well as the crossover filter type, you will need four channels of amplification and it does not matter if they are SS or tube matching gain of all the channels is a good idea which is why I suggested two stereo block amps same brand/model will work well. You should be able to come up with a nice two way, I like two ways have fun. I hope this helps.
Thank you for your wisdom sir. I found a crossover that may do the trick locally, a dbx233s for 50 bucks. I have a pair of tube amps that I wouldn’t mind using for the task as well. Gain may be a problem but I’m patient with tuning stuff. I will post again when I get the set up working.
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19 minutes ago, moray james said:
a fifteen inch woofer with a 900Hz. xover point and a 6db/octave roll off? not much of a plan. you could slap an acoustic filter over the woofer that wold help a little. time for an active xover and a couple of inexpensive stereo block amplifiers.
To some extent I agree. An active crossover was always the plan but I know nothing of where or how to implement. Other than the Lpad being wonky, they sound quite good to me, but to each their own.
Why do you think the crossover is inadequate? Would an active crossover be ok considering I run only tube amplifiers on my speakers?
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The project is done, sort of. I’m having issues with balance due to the Lpads I purchased not being matched. I need to see if I can take it apart to make it work.
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18 minutes ago, soundbound said:
Welcome. Nice job. What speakers and crossovers were in them?
Thank you for the greeting. IIRC, they started out as a set of Cornwalls with unbranded tweeters, Pyle PDS182 mids with 5 cent plastic midhorns, an MCM 55-2953 15” woofer, and emb CX-10 crossover. The cabinets were the most expensive thing but were also pretty badly damaged.
I received them with a pair of crites CT125s in place of poo tweeters, and a pair of altec 511b horns with 808-8A drivers, those properly knackered with too.
currently, I’m running them with B&C DE250s, The woofer listed above and a homemade crossover, 18db HPF and 6db LPF both set at 900hz and an L-Pad on the Horn because it over-powers the woofer many times over.
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22 minutes ago, ClaudeJ1 said:
Just build a rear extension out of 3/4" plywood, thereby increasing the box volume slightly to accommodate the right driver. A 902 is a very good driver, but there are other flat ones, just no many that get to 500 Hz. so you could get a K55 with adapter and make it fit with the rear cab extension that would fit into the existing opening.
All of those are great ideas. The extension is the next thing on my list, err our list. This is as much their project as it is mine. I merely cut a hole and installed them.
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Apologies, I don’t get emails, need to set notifications for replies. Here are the photos of the rear. An active crossover is certainly in the cards, Probably needed since I’ve changed the dynamics of how the cabinet sounds.
Randyh, you are correct. This is part of the reason I haven’t picked up Altec drivers for these. I needed something low profile, so I don’t have a big lump sticking out of the back. The horn does fit.... without a compression driver attached. 🙃
This isn’t really a build of what I want, more like this is what I have and can I make it work. I would have preferred a K400 but the purchase came with the 511b horns, a mangled pair of 808-8A drivers, a Pyle mid horn and pds152 driver, MCM 55-2953 woofer, and crites CT-125 tweeter. They are far from done.
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Thought you guys might enjoy my latest accident. I have never attempted anything like this but have help from some knowledgeable people. Drivers will most likely be a B&C DE250 and an MCM 55-2953 (until I find something better, they came with this.)
These guys were pretty mangled cabinets filled with probably the cheapest drivers one could buy and fit in a Cornwall cab. I know people put them on the top, but oh well.
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On 11/29/2019 at 10:14 PM, y2keglide said:
Not to mention these things are not exactly easy to load unload and move around,my drive was 6 hours round trip and it took a lot of effort to get them upstairs to my entertainment room. I did it by myself with a small hand truck,about all I could do by myself.
That is a beautiful setup. Mine is still a work in progress but for the most part is getting finalized. I will post it when I have time.
I actually did two trips from Phoenix to El Paso. I got the first one into my ‘15 Kia Soul, followed by the second one on the second trip. I’m not intending to actually change speakers in the next 50 years so the drive is worth it. Because they are stained and therefore modified, I’m going to lacquer them shiny in the next few days, followed by the crossover conversion. I need to disassemble the access panel and start bypass work on the crossovers and the excessive gauge wiring that Mr. Crites informs me may be potentially corroding. Maybe inspect the woofer too if I can. When I first started playing then they sounded chubby in the bass department, I’m guessing capacitors are in poor shape? Either way they will be replaced by end of day.
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5 hours ago, y2keglide said:
He was the second owner and had them for over 30 years,they are 1972 vintage and looked like these when new.
The guy I bought them from said the original owner had covered them in shag carpet.
I thought about doing veneer but I'm afraid with all that's been applied before it would end up a mess.
I'm an old cabinetmaker from way back so my plan is to get a realistic woodgrain and textured formica type product and do a new overlay.
I can get the old plastic off no problem and the oak edgebanding as well.
Some of that p-lam looks like real wood unless you look really close and it's very durable.
I gave only $1400 for the pair,one tweeter was bad so I bought two new ones from Crites at about $200 so I'm in them $1600.
I wish I could have been that lucky. I traded a pair of LaScalas and 1k. I feel it was worth it except the drive took 6 hours one way.
I hope to read about that! If these were a project I would make a post regarding them but the most they will see is the AK-2 crossover removed and the Type A installed instead.
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1 hour ago, dtel said:
Welcome, and good looking speakers.
Thanks for the welcome and the compliment. I need to order some corners now to compliment these beautiful speakers.
53 minutes ago, y2keglide said:Nice but that made my neck hurt.😂
Mine were in simple plain fir ply when new,prior owner put gray formica and red oak veneer on them and added the speaker cloth and emblems.
They were designer series I think is what they were called.
I plan to do a cosmetic upgrade at some point,that gray plastic and oak has to go but they sound great and I got a fantastic deal on them.
Goodness. Not sure what direction the previous owner was going but I’m glad a deal was had from that. Good luck on removing that stuff.
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Thank you for your response.
That part makes sense, I figured the wood was still burch. I’m just not sure what the 2 is referring to on the on the label.
The guy swears they were ordered like that with the paperwork to prove it. He’s a bit older so time will tell but either way I like them.
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Hello,
I recently purchased some 1987 Klipschorns in excellent shape. Upon reading the tag for the klipschorns, I discovered that they don’t quite match up with the heritage speaker codes that are posted within these forums. They read KB-BR H/2 and L/2, for both upper and lower portions of the speaker. The grill cloth and stain is a chocolate color.
Are these modified or potentially rare? Thanks.
I’ve been busy with work. Tonight for sure. 
Altec 511b inside of a Cornwall.
in Technical/Restorations
Posted
A final update:
I ended up getting a DDRC-24, the Dirac version of the minidsp. The speakers sound amazing. Jaw droppingly so, Ive been listening non stop for about 10 hours and I never expected for them to sound this good. So good, that my Bluesound Node 2i got sold since the DDRC has digital inputs. Rather than learn the art of passive crossovers, I let robots do the job and I'm not disappointed. Thanks for everyones assistance with this project.