Erik Mandaville

Thanks for you encouragment, Chris. KH: I seriously doubt that Jeff L. is fooling you; pulling the wool over your eyes; passing things under-the-table, or planting any other form of smoke-screen-disguise. From communicating with him, I have learned he is very well versed in terms of vacuum tube theory and application, with lots of building experience to buttress and support the 'book' aspect of what he knows. Moreover, he is a friendly person willing to share the excitement of building with others who share a bit of the same passion. I have always enjoyed constructing: I was welding together shock-absorbing bicycle frames when I was in 6th grade, and learned to solder (I used to build little 'creatures out of tin can) when I was 5 -- it was the only way I really got to spend any time with my dad. I mentioned he has a lifetime of knowledge about tube electronics. Everytime I think I understand something new, I realize how really little I truly know! But I am trying, and it gives us (my pop and me) something to talk about. I'm not going to waste time commenting on the size of my music collection. I will submit that it's not so much the size that matters, anyway, but rather how much one enjoys and appreciates what one has. Please note that opinion. I have read about OTLs for several years, and have am curious to try one -- as much for further experience in building as for the kind of reproduction it will provide. I enjoy the Moondogs very much -- that much you know. YOu might find, Kelly, if you ever start to construct some of your own equipment, that it can provide a great deal of satisfaction. And I must submit to you as well, that experimenting with different circuits does not at all have to translate into a lack of time listening to music. If you consider the amount of time 3,000+ posts (very informative ones, often including marvelous illustrations presented in a professional manner)takes, I don't see anything wrong with taking a similar amount of time on Saturday mornings learning to build and repair tube equipment. It's what I like to do, and then spend very focused time in the afternoon and evening listening. Regards, Erik

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. Sounds like OTLs might be just what I'm looking for! Your post is confirmation of this. I've been in communication with Jeff Lessard on this matter as well, and he has provided some very insightful information on the subject -- as well as a mutual interest in some of the obvious benefits or transformerless coupling to a speaker's voice coil. Although I may not agree on every point Bruce Rozenblit may make, I am not in the position to deny his level of understanding of audio electronics, indeed of electronics, in general. His knowledge and experience is signficantly beyond my own, as I would venture to say -- based on much I have seen and read recently on this forum -- likely beyond many who frequent this site. As you yourself said, most people here don't build their own amplifiers. However, I very much respect the fact that most, if not all people here know damn well what they like and prefer in terms of music reproduction in the home. And that's why I like to come and share in the experience of others. Your subjective description of OTLs sounds outstanding to me. Opinion thus noted! Erik

I've become increasingly interested in characteristics of OTL amplifiers, and am curious about whether there are forum members here who have tried or use them with high efficiency horns. Transcendent sound (www.transcendentsound.com)is a company for which I'm gaining quick respect, and they have a variety of products (kits or pre-built)available for prices that I'm finding are pretty hard to beat. There are some Transcendent Sound amplifier users that have described Rozenblit's designs as 'quicker' and 'resolving' (etc.) than the 2A3-based amplifiers (obviously transformer coupled) they formerly used to use, in fact, describing 2A3s as 'sluggish' by comparison. There are other companies that 'specialize' in OTL (output-transformer-less in case you are not familiar with this), but not even close to an approachable price -- at least for me. Any thoughts or experience would be very much appreciated! I'm seriously thinking of buying one of Rozenblits OTL kits, or building from scratch from his one of his schematics. Thanks and regards, Erik

Ahem....sorry, just had to clear my throat, there... Kelly: Art Dudley hasn't gotten back to me yet on those cables, and I've asked Tony Glynn (former Lowther America guy) to please send Art one of the two pair I gave to Tony G. to try out. If Art really likes them, than I'll go ahead and make him a pair when I have the time. I told him I don't want any money for this whole thing -- and $$$$ never has had anything to do with it. I wanted to give him a small token of appreciation for all the work he did with Listener. That was an audio publication I really liked and now missed; and was one in fact where I mentioned in a letter how much I liked the Moondogs. Anyway, since you wanted an 8 ft pair, I might cut off four of the 12 feet to use for an interconnect experiment. Then one day soon, I'll get around to making another pair of the speaker cables for myself. I'm using the old cross-connected pair I told you about, since I sent the other CAT 5 to Tony Glynn. I also gave Tony both the pair I made -- one of which belonged to me, and I told him he could just have it. He wanted an 8ft pair (mine was 5ft), so I made another for him. That cable is so cheap compared to what else is available for a similar kind of performance (just my opinion -- you have actually used a few more 'real' cables than I have, which is why I'm interested in your thoughts on them). The LAST thing I want to start doing is braiding CAT 5 cable for a living! Just getting a couple of opinions from serious audio folks and listeners is all I'm interested in. You had a good idea in possibly kind of passing them around for others to try, and my ego isn't one that can't handle someone not likeing them. Hey, maybe Craig could have a look at that ASUSA for you. ASUSA obviously didn't skimp on the power and output trannies! Looks really nice, and I had a close look at the pictures Craig posted of his recent Dynaco re-build -- very neat work. Anyway, I hope this is all clear. And a question: Are you going to take Jean-Francois' advice about that now very famous cathode by-pass capacitor? Man, I'm tired...students at school were pretty wild today for some reason. out! Erik

I have to admit that, although I haven't made the effort to post on the Welborne site, I do lurk now and then! Ron seems to be making more frequent contributions, but Kelly is certainly right that I experienced some frustration there. Leo obviously knows enough about what he's doing, and I hoped he might get a slightly more in-depth description on this specific application of bypassing the cathode resistor. I've complimented that fine Moondog amplifiers more times than I can remember, and was surprised about some of the designer's feedback I got in return. I also mentioned an interest in direct-coupling between stages -- that was shot down instantly. But guess what? The new Jack Eliano circuit now being offered as (probably very, very good) kit uses a combo if interstage and direct coupling -- if my memory serves me right here...maybe it doesn't use both...need to go check that schematic. P.S. Jean-Francois is a good guy! He took the time to email me and offer his take on the bypass cap issue -- that was unexpected and helpful to me. He doesn't use them! So I'm going to chop mine out this weekend and compare the performance both with my Lowther horns and the sculptural La Scalas! It's been so long since I used the GZ37s (which are packed away like treasure), I might plunk those in as well -- I always thought they looked a hell of a lot neater than the shortish but good, 5Y3!

Hi again, Leo: Sheesh, this is about the last thing I have time for this morning, but I'm fascinated by your experiments with this aspect of the Moondogs. I tried a post on the Welborne site myself yesterday evening, and got a response along the same lines you did from Ron W. It obviously boils down to a preference, I guess. If you're not experiencing distortion or a significant reduction in bass response, it might be the best thing to do. I'm always (Kelly H. knows this about me!!!) looking for the greatest amount of clarity I can obtain, and I will likely give this a shot this weekend. No damage will happen to the amps -- I've done tons of work inside the amps since I've built them, and this won't pose a threat. I appreciate the concern you offered, though. I'm thinking about getting rid of as many of the terminal boards that I can, and rewiring virtually point to point, using the leads of the components themselves (as much as practical)to complete the circuit. Almost all the boards have come loose because of old or faulty epoxy (which, although it aesthetically helps with reducing the number of screwheads on the top plate). Aesthetics are important, but in this case inferior adhesive has compromised some things internally. My amps are very nearly silent, but I've had to re-glew as best as I could, the boards that have come loose. It was hard to do that work neatly with all the wiring in the way! See ya! Kelly: You still wanna try those cables for fun? Erik

Off the wire topic... Kelly: I sent you an email about your ASUSA -- did ya get it? What's wrong with that nice-looking amp that you're not using it once in awhile? Granted, it may not have the same qualities as your Moondogs, but it is still a nice amplifier, nevertheless! My dad (an oldtimer tube builder, who used to build radios on his mom's cookie tins when he was 10 years old!) would go crazy with how much time we've blabbed about speaker cable and interconnect. He would say the whole thing is absolute 'bull....' and walk away. But he's into receiving and transmitting systems, and not worried about hi-fidelity audio. Deang: Thanks very much for supplying that info. that came with your cables. I'm very curious about what you think about them. Erik

Leo: Certainly you've got the scoop on cathode bypass capacitors. Have you tried posting on the Welborne forum? You're getting great feedback on the subject here, but maybe Ron W. can provide the clarification you're looking for. Let us know how this develops -- you've got me tempted to go and yank out those caps so I can hear for myself what you're talking about! Erik

Kelly: No problem -- I'll pick the stuff up from Radio Shack. If I don't here back from that guy I made the latest pair of CAT 5 for, I'll just send you the ones intended for him. It's not as if he's hurting as far as speaker cable and ICs go. I think his cable of choice is Nordost Flatline, which is probably similar in ways to the CAT 5. This nearly finished cable is probably around 11 feet long. And the picture you posted is THE very one! that much braiding is just totally not necessary for low-power amplification -- in my opinion. If people are having to put filters on their speakers to prevent oscillation, there is an intrinsic problem. My much easier and less massive version has worked great on Lowthers, and Tony Glynn (former CEO of Lowther-Amrerica) now uses it instead of his Jena Labs cable. If you've already made a version of this, what your hear may not be much of a surprise. But what the heck, never hurts to try it out...I got the connectors I need to try an IC version, which might actually work well. Hey, I sent you an email (or personal message -- can't remember which) about your ASUSAs. Try to get those things up and running! Erik

Hey, Kelly: Yeah, it's kind of strange regarding our equipment and the way we listen to them. I mentioned in another post (to Leo, I think, on his new Moondogs)that my continued quest for good high frequency extension is probably the result of an unfortunate bit of hearing loss. I also have pretty bad tinnitus (...think that's spelled right...) in my left ear, which is probably the result of too much loud music years ago. I love to hear high frequency transients associated with things like cymbals, fingers moving around guitar fret boards, and other such stuff that makes for me a more 'real' or 'present' listening experience. on the Cross-connected cable: I've built a couple of versions of this, one with rather poor quality coax, and another that had a foamed teflon-insulated center conductor, and a blue (likely PVC, which is a no-no)jacket. Center conductor was bare stranded copper, and the shield (95% coverage)was also a bare copper braid -- which I prefer to more common tinned copper braid. This was cable I had on hand, and don't even remember where I got it -- a local electronics store, I think. The cable was measured on a Heathkit capacitance tester as having approx. 13pfd/foot, which is lowever, I believe than the Belden 89259 cable. The Belden is a really high quality coax, with (as you know) an outer jacket that is also Teflon. And maybe that would have been a deciding factor. In any case, this CAT 5 cable I've been working with is really nice sounding. Hey, tell me the length of your speaker cables, Kelly. I'll make you a pair for you Cornwalls, including some spades on the end that will fit the narrow openings on the crossover binding posts. If you don't like them, you can just send 'em back or give them to a friend, or something...and if you do like them, then great! Erik

Hey, Leo: Guess I missed where you mentioned your Creek passive! No wonder I was always having to go to remedial reading when I was in school! My brother has the same Creek unit, but uses it to balance the output level in a bi-amped system. Anyway, it sounds like you have a great set up. Kelly is providing really sound advice, Leo. As he has suggested, I think it a good idea to build the amp as originally designed, get very used to its sound, and then experiment one step at a time. That way, you'll have a much more educated idea about changes your making. Like Kelly, my Moondogs are now, years after I built, to where I'm comfortable with their performance. I'm surprised to that he remembers what capacitors I'm using, which are very inexpensive mylar caps. These are certainly 'brighter' sounding than the Hovlands, which are still good capacitors. Much of my reason for voicing the amps like this has honestly more to do with my increasing inability to clearly hear high frequency information. The AE-1 preamp I recently repaired had all oil capacitors in the signal path; and while I thought the preamp sounded very rich, it had a 'dark' quality. I have poly caps in those spots now, and it has been an improvement for me. The oil capacitors are of a very good quality, though. Ok, on to a couple of other things before this gets too long! C5 is an important part of the input stage, and I would include it as shown on the schematic. I know you said you don't need the extra gain that bypassing provides, but it also influences impedance characteristics of the tube -- which subsequently becomes important to the following stage. Increased distortion resulting from degeneration (inverse feedback)is another possibility that might result from not bypassing the cathode resistor. In other words, it's function has more to do with balancing things out than it does with the subjective perception of the amp's characteristic sound. Degeneration is sometimes used in output circuits to improve linearity and distortion, but in my opinion, this situation is different. I obviously need to go and study this stuff some more in greater detail, but I would leave that in for the time being. Or get in touch with Ron Welborne about it for hopefully better clarification. I think you will find his response probably shorter than this! High voltage rectifiers: I also don't listen at very loud levels, and also found that my vintage RCA 2A3s were being driven 75 volts beyond their maximum RCA manual rating. Ron W., simply shrugged when I asked about this, but I wanted my expensive (too expensive!) tubes to last as long as they could. So I lowered the plate voltage (taken between plate and cathode)to 250 VDC. Since the 6SN7s plate supplies branch off from the B+, I needed to balance those out to bring them back up to what's on the schematic. I'm now using Sovtek 2A3s, and bypassed R13 with another power resistor to bring the voltage up to about 275 on the 2A3. That is such a rugged tube, though, that it can take considerably higher voltages without damage. In short, the 5Y3 rectifier provides more than adequate DC for my needs. The Mullard GZ37 is such a fine tube, though! Maybe I'll just put those back into service! Man that shot Kelly supplied of the battery bias is nice! Ok, I'm just about done -- sorry this has gone on so long. Leo: if you like the sound of the amp minus the bypass cap., maybe experimenting with the kind of capacitor you use to couple the different stage (C7 and C8). I've got a nice .22mfd from the AE-1 preamp, that I want to try in the Moondog. Having a mix of oil and plastic capacitors might be nice, just as mixing tubes can sometimes result in cool things! Have a good Sunday, Erik

Deang: I think your new cable kit looks great! Hopefully (and likely) it will reward you sound-wise, as well. I built more than one variation of the J. R. Crossconnect, but but all the stuff seperately. I think it's now available as a kit. For me, they (the cross-connected coax)didn't have the brilliance I was looking for on the top end. Even the very inexpensive Romex cable I made was better, in my opinion. I just finished making a cable this morning, that I'm going to send to a friend, who is also an editor for a well-known audio mag. This consists of CAT 5 cable, which has four, teflon-insulated-pair conductors inside a blue PVC jacket. The jacket is removed, and the four twisted pair are simply braided and terminated to your liking. I ALWAYS make the habit of a very solid, mechanical crimp, and then seal the joint with high quality solder. Sorry, but that solder compromises to performance of the cable is utter nonsense to me. Every connection in my preamp and amps is soldered -- and for good reason: It provided outstanding mechanical stability, and seals the exposed copper, silver-clad, whatever lead against the invasion of oxidation and other contaminants. The CAT 5, with superior teflon insulation, as Belden also uses, is very balanced top-to-bottom. I got the idea from some others who had used the stuff, but were braiding up very, very thick overall configurations, consisting of many braided conductors -- which offers low inducatance at the expensive of enormous capacitance. Some of those DIYers even had to construct compensating networks for their speakers to keep amplifier from oscillating -- that's a bad sign! With high efficiency horns and very low amp power, heavy conductors simply aren't needed! I also have some 28AWG magnet wire terminated with Radio Shack spades that sound way too good for how much they cost! They are maybe just a little shy in the low end, though... I'm now using the cross-connnected stuff with a pair of bass-reflex mini-monitors I built out of ceramic flue tile. God! I listened to those things yesterday afternoon, and had forgotten how good they sounded! Anyway, long story short, I didn't care that much for the cross-connect geometry, but some people really like very much. Just one of those things! Anyway, please report on you cable project -- it looks like a great kit! Erik

That's great about your new amps, Leo! I really love mine, although I use a 5Y3 rectifier in 'em. I agree with KH on his take on the Sovteks -- you should really get some of those, and they just can't be beat for the price. I'm curious what you did to the ground lead on the filament supply to the 6SN7s...would you share that with us? On the preamp issue: I went the passive route for awhile, but it simply doesn't have the jump and sparkle that a good active gain stage has. For me, music was present, but just seemed rather deflated to me. Here's what you can do, though: If you want to compare the difference between active and passive preamping, they are really, really, easy to make from scratch (yeah, I know....here I go again, right?). Everything you need for one is at your friendly Radio Shack! Cheap plastic chassis RCA jacks two 10k log-taper volume controls a couple of plastic knobs All a passive preamp is, of course, is a potentiometer between your source and your amplifiers. CD players will put out about 2 volts, which is more than enough for the Moondogs. For best results, though, you've got to have the preamp within say a few feet (or closer!) of your amplifiers. Otherwise cable capacitance becomes and issue, and you'll lose some high frequency reproduction. This is also why 10K pots are better than 50k or 100k -- the higher output impedance of the 50k or 100k volume control can have trouble with longer cable runs. The downside of a 10k control, is that it's lower input impedance requires turning the volume control up a bit higher to get adequate volume. I actually removed the 100k resistor on the grid of the first 6SN7 on the Moondogs, and installed a 100K volume control in it's place -- which is just a passive preamp installed on the amplifier, itself. I found this very helpful with active gain, since many tube preamps can have pretty high gain. In otherwords, it's possible to impose too much gain on the amp input, and cause buzz, distortion, and other yuk stuff. I suggest you also check out the Ultrapath line stage at Welborne Labs. It's about $300 cheaper than another one in question, here, and has a gain of under 6dB, which is really ideal for the Moondogs. also consider these: I have a copy of the original Ultrapath schematic by Jack Eliano, and it is quite easy to buid, but does not use a battery supply. If you're interested, I also have a 5Y3 rectified, dual 6SN7 preamp schematic by Eric Barbour -- whose knowledge of tube audio and hollow state technology is extensive, to say the least! He designed a truly fantastic linestage, which is based on a single sub-mini tube -- I have lately been comparing this single tube/SS hybrid to my AES preamp (AE-1), and this tiny little tube can nearly keep up with 4 6SN7s! Bottlehead Foreplay: A truly great kit, which uses a direct-coupled cathode-follower topology. It's an OUTSTANDING value at under $200. I built a tube rectified version of this thing, which is really great! Grounded-Grid Preamp: Offered by Transcendent Sound, designed by Bruce Rozenblit, who is a very talented and experienced designer. I think the kit version of this, complete with a high quality chassis, is around $400. I built an SRPP preamp by Rozenblit some years ago; and although a good performer that taught me lots in the building process, just doesn't have the 'drive' and presence of a low output imped. cathode follower. The Grounded Grid has gotten some really good reviews. ...I had a thought last night about modifying the cathode bypass on the Moondogs to an Ultrapath output. Have to have a look at the schematic to see if this might be possible. Anyway, do consider a quick, homebrew passive line stage. They can be made in a 'snap,' and you just don't need to spend $300 to see what it sounds like compared to active gain. If you like it, get a couple of good Noble or Bournes pots, some decent RCA jacks, and you'd have a passive as good or better than what's available at exponentially higher prices. The passive I built had the interconnects connected directly to the volume controls, thus doing away with yet another point of possible oxidation, poor ground, etc. Let me know if I can help! Erik

Looks great, Tom! good job. Bet this will sound really good! Erik

Well, this one is going to be shorter! Phil: Check out Antique Elecronics supply (AES) I think their web address is tubesandmore.com. They have a couple of highly praised amp kits for under $200. They are designed by a well-known tube enthusiast/professional. You can get them in kit form (simple PCB stuffing) and mounted on a wood chassis. I nicer chassis is available. This might be one way to go -- 8 watts or so of tube power for pretty cheap, including tubes. Erik

Bruce Rozenblit has a website for his company, Transcendent Sound. The exact URL escapes me -- something like www.transcendent-sound.com. Certainly you can do a search and find it. Antique Electronics Supply (great company!) now sells tube amp kits for under $200. The stereo version of the amp. got a very strong review in Audio X Press magazine -- a great DIYer publication. Also check out Vacuum Tube Valley magazine, which always has projects by very talented audio designers. Eric Barbour (enormously knowdgeable tube expert)is a frequent contributor. VTV published one of his preamp designs, which not surprisingly got rave reveiws -- it's a 6SN7 based preamp, using a 5Y3 tube rectifier. It could be built for a few hundred dollars, or even less if one happened to have a suitable transformer already on hand. It takes time and effort to learn to build from scratch, but much can be learned (not to mentioned SAVED!) in the process. Erik

Hi, Phil: This is a great question and post! The best way to get a really thorough understanding of audio electronics is to do exactly what you propose. If you start doing some of your own research and experiementing, you will be light years ahead of those who just like to talk -- hands on experience, including the mistakes often made, is the best teacher by far. There are lots of books on the subject, and many that I still want to get. A couple that come to mind that offer both great insight are 'A Beginner's Guide to Tube Audio Design' and 'Audio Reality'. Both are written by Bruce Rozenblit. It was the preamp project in the first book that got me started on all of this. Beyond a good first-time project, though, he outlines a great deal about circuit theory, inluding the math needed in design implementation. Some of it gets fairly complex, and requires a few times of re-reading. 'Audio Reality' is supposed to be very good, as well, although I haven't read it yet. Rozenblit, unlike some designers, also very willingly makes public some of his circuits. I believe Audio Reality also contains the schematic for his 'Grounded-Grid' preamplifier. I know a couple people who built this from scratch and love it. For obvious reasons I hesitate to offer endorsements of products, but that seems to be perfectly acceptable behavior on this forum...so I'm trying to join the club in that respect. There are a number of schematics that would be good for projects, which is what I would do first before designing completely on your own from the ground up. I have some notation I've made on some ideas for amplifiers, including 2A3 parallel operation and direct-coupled applicatins of the same tube, but am putting them off for a bit until 1. I have the $$$ needed for parts, and 2. enough experience under my belt for a better chance of success. Kit building is also a good way to start, but it's important to become familiar enough with schematics to where you can build from that alone. I built my Welborne Labs amplifiers from a kit, with only a bit of shematic reading ability. When I look at it now, it is such an easy design to make. SET circuits tend to be that way, though. I have the schematic for the Direct Reactance amplifier (now offered in kit form by Welborne labs), and there is hardly anything to it! And this is absolutely a compliment to the designer, Jack Eliano. If you are interested in trying a kit or two, please feel free to email me (or just post below). I might be able to offer some suggestions that would be helpful. Oh, you might also like to get a copy of the 'RCA Receiving Tube Manual' and the 'Radio Amateur's Handbook.' The first of the two can be a great tool, since it lists operating parameters for thousands of tubes, including those used for music playback and amplification. It also has a great section on circuits for preamps and amps, and is thus a good way to practice schematic reading. The other tends to be more closely related to radio receiving and transmission, but has a wealth of information totally related to tube audio electronics -- which of course has its origins in radio. There are outstanding sections on power supply design and implementation, which has bee a help to me many times in building my own power supplies! Sorry this is so long, Phil! It's just a subject of interest to me, and was glad to learn of someone interested enough to be willing to do some of the work and research related to the field. Let me know if I can help...but remember I'm learning too! The more I learn, it seems the more I realize how little I actually know! Have fun and regards, Erik

Hiya, Tom: I can relate to this problem. It sounds like you may have some RF-noise creeping into your system, since that can sometimes manifest itself as more of a buzz rather than hum. Rectification can sometimes be cured by a couple of different filters, including "grid stoppers." This is simply a resistor (often between, say 1K and 10K ohms)in series with the input to the grid. Try these on your input or preamp tubes in the amplifier. But, if there are grid resistors present (likely that will be the case) the grid stopper is put in position AFTER the grid resistor, which is referenced to ground. Otherwise, one can get excessive attenuation, loss of high frequencies, etc. Try this, it really might help. Start with maybe 5K ohms, and reduce or increase as needed. Use a carbon comp. resistor, which is less prone to RF pickup and oscillation, which is what you are trying to do away with. These are cheap and plentiful at Radio Shack. Your voltages are a little high, but not that much. You might also have a bad capacitor (which can be bridged with a known good one to test it), or check dropping power resistors between filter sections. You can also add resistance with appropriately large power rating to bring your voltage down. Give those grid-stoppers a try, at least. They are easy to install, and can save lots of difficult hunting and testing. Make sure things like transformer laminations are tight by lightly snugging up bolts on the tranformers (this is probably not the problem, though.)filament snubber can also sometimes help problems like this. Find out if the amps buzz with and without an input signal, which can help you locate where it's coming from. Does this amplifier use DC on the filaments, do you know? What voltages are you getting on the filaments? Does this buzz change when you move interconnects around while they are plugged in? I found my Moondogs were pretty prone to noise related to RF and EMI, and much improved the problem by turning the bottom plate into an active shield (simply grounding it to the main chassis ground) Do an internet search on Grid stopping risistor, or simply grid stopper. There is a wealth of info out there, including schematic diagrams to help clarify proper installation. Good luck, Erik

A short note here, Leo: I think the Oris is intended........... ............oops! My wife is calling; time for our Sunday morning at Barnes and Noble (for me that means a couple of new CDs!) I'll hop on again later and get into this a bit more. Erik

First! Thanks to all of you for responding with cogent, thought provoking comments, suggestions, ideas, opinions, etc. You all ARE in fact a rather closely knit group, and I tend to venture to this site perhaps a little less often. But I have always found this forum a really enjoyable place to share a common love and interest. I had merely happened upon a full-page view of a preamp, that to me looked like something out of a glossy audio magazine, and it just sort of hit me in an odd way...and I qualified that by saying my thoughts on the subject may not be necessarily correct, 'right,' accurate, or whatever else. If not of such an extraordinarily high quality (that's a compliment, Kelly -- one of many of extended to you on this obvious ability of yours!, that picture probably wouldn't have had the impact it did. And it IS a very nice looking preamp, by the way. And yeah, Kelly, I'd love to have a look at the schematic, BUT!!! only with the designer's approval. He may in fact not want every one in the world to see it right now. That I would like to respect. Jack Eliano published the schematic of his said-to-be quick 6SN7 line stage(now on the racks of Welborne Labs)in Vacuum Tube Valley, and it is really easy to make. The Pantheon (cool name!) designer may not be comfortable with that yet... In short you all, please accept an apology if I in any way disturbed what would otherwise be looked upon with interest and enthusiasm. But for those who may want to venture into a Pantheon based on its 'killer' looks alone, I would first do some research on the circuit employed -- or ask assistance with that. Look for things like: amount of gain; input and output imedence; (higher output imped. can make it difficult to 'drive' the capacitance associated with long runs of cable); method of coupling; etc. Maybe Kelly has provided all that information already. As well-armed and thorough as he always is, I'm sure these specs. have already been...well...made known to the public. So please just take what I said with the well-known 'grain of salt,' ok?! Lastly, please let me share this! I finally finished the restoration of an old, vintage pair of 6V6 push-pull amplifiers (capable of about 10 watts or so), and used them with the La Scalas and my Lowther/Medallion combo (powered by 2A3 monoblocks). With some exprimentation of speaker placement, I was able to achieve an incredibly good balance between the two speakers, where the La Scalas very nicely filled in the lower frequency range. both speakers, Lowthers and La Scalas, have similar, high-speed sonic signatures, and I was surprised at how well the two worked together. I had tried this once in a different fashion with a different amp, and the results were not nearly as good. SETs (single ended triodes -- for those who aren't familiar with that) are good, but so are push-pull amplifiers! This is the first time I've had some hands-on experience with phase-splitters and such, and it was a good (and good-sounding) experience! I sat in front of the system (powered by a total of 22 tubes!) late into the night -- no distraction whatsoever...which is how I prefer to listen to music. And my amplifiers, preamp, and sources are now turned off. Have a good day, Erik

Hey, Kelly: Would you please define your word "SERVICE" in this context? My feeling is that semantics is something which could figure prominantly, here.... Sheesh! I gotta get off this stupid computer and go turn on my amps! Bye you all! Erik

Hey again, Chris: If you check out my gear, you'll see I also use a 6SN7 based preamp. A fellow forum member sent me his to repair, which I ended virtually completely rebuilding, almost all of which was done without a schematic. I've got an earlier AES model linestage. My Moondogs also of course use 6SN7s as input and driver stages... I've scratch built a number of preamps, one which even used a single sub-mini tube, that cost me hardly anything to build -- and whose performance comes very, very close to the AE-1. So I understand fairly well about the interest in 6SN7s -- and I wholeheartedly agree. Well, I told myself I was going to very little time on the computer talking about audio machines this weekend. I'm trying to stay away from blabbing about my equipment (fun at times)much more than closely and seriously listening to it. Take care, and have a good weekend, Erik

Hey, Chris -- very good response. I appreciate your feedback. As I said, in the end we should be allowed to interpret forum information and material in our own way. Again, I didn't say I was 'right' about this. It was intended as rather a 'general' sort of thought. I honestly didn't read your post, and I was really referring to what might be described as a compilation of posts that to me may have looked more promotional in nature than enthusiasm. But both of those factors can appear similar. I have know problem with Kelly. He and I have communicated a number of times, and there are aspects of our systems that are very similar -- but each slightly altered (I'm talking about our amplifiers...)to fit our personal tastes. For example: He likes to use oil capacitors in coupling applications, and I generally don't. Neither of us is 'right' or 'wrong'. Moreover, I wish I had the computer skills he does to share many of the things (mainly preamplifiers) I've built from scratch (which would be an example of my enthusiasm. Had I that ability, I would, for what I believe would be appropriate in general -- and for my own peace of mind in particular -- qualify any illustration or picture by saying they were not for commercial purposes, but rather just to share. Some of what's come up recently looks like a page torn out of Stereophile. Have a great weekend, Chris, and thanks again for you input. Erik

Hi! Sure, I'll briefly explain what I meant: I think a certain form etiquette is appropriate. I think discussion and sharing of Klipsch and other audio products is perfectly fine. Friendly disagreement is also well and good. But I think it's very easy to stretch the envelope, as it were, in terms of the manner in which products are 'shared' with the forum community. It's one thing to discuss the subjective merits (or lack-there-of)of such machines and preamplifiers, amplifiers, speakers, etc., but I think there can be a fine line between that and what starts to look rather like commercial enterprise. High quality illustrations that accompany topics of discussion can be enormously helpful and absolutely interesting. It's when they begin to take on certain billboard qualities that I (and this is just my opinion -- it doesn't make me right!)begin to feel that there (again in my opinion) begins to be somewhat of a compromise of the above mentioned 'forum etiquette.' In the end, I have the freedom to disregard such (often very subtle)free-advertising, and carry on with my own affairs -- just as others may take advantage of the opportunity in a way that may come to involve an 'exchange' of some sort.... Do you understand? Erik

Good job, Nate! You've made some good decisions about your audio gear, and are being careful abou how you're spending what you can for equipment. I also agree that tubes sound very good with Klipsch speakers (I use 2A3 monoblock amps, that are all but 3.5 watts powerful). With my La Scalas and Lowther horns, even that is much, much more than I ever use. My wife likes heavy metal (as I do on occasion), and has lately been listening to the recent Audio Slave CD -- which is a great CD! Not knowing your listening habits, it's just a little hard to get an idea of what would be best for you. There are certainly very, very good amplifiers in your price range, but likely mostly transistor (aka Solid State or 'SS'), There are a few tube amp offerings, though. You might look at the Decware 'Zen' (www.decware.com) or some of the very good Jolida products (do a search on that). Also, Creek (out of England, and very much available here) has some good stuff, as well. Although I would suggest tubes with high efficiency Klipsch speakers (I don't know the sensitivity of yours), there are some transistor amplifiers that can sound really, really good! Tube technology is considered 'antique' by many, but pick up any recent audio magazine, and you will find TONS of companies putting out tube-based preamps and amps. They sound incredibly good. Nate: I had what I thought to be a very good Sony (ES line) integrated amp, and absolutely could not believe what an improvement the 2A3 monoblocks were over the Sony. Rich, full, detailed, very, very real-sounding. Please also look at the outstanding products of Antique Sound Labs. They have tube amplifiers that could sell for much, much more than they do. I'll go find the URL for you and post it here. Good luck, Erik