KSW-15 hookup questions

[bscross]

Hi,

I just got my KSW-15 and hooked it up to my Sony receiver via the sub out. When I hook the sub up using only the LFE input, the bass is weak (using The Matrix as my test DVD). I have the DTS LFE leve set to +10db on the reciever as recommended and my front speakers set to small.

If I use a Y-cable to hook into the LFE and either the left or right inputs, I get more bass. If I hook into the left and right sub inputs and not the LFE, I get the most bass. I did read on this forum that you get more bass by hooking up both the left and right inputs.

My question is, should I get another Y-cable and hook into all 3 inputs so I don't miss out on the LFE channel bass? Thanks for any help!

--Brian.

[boa12]

here's that sub receiver bass mgmt/compatability thing again w/ sony receivers it sends all lfe to the sub preout as long as u set sub:yes. so u don't have to use the lfe input on your ksw but do connect both L&R line inputs w/ the Y config. u just have to turn the ksw crossover all the way up so u don't cut off any lfe

which specs claim can go to 120hz.

trouble is when u leave the ksw crossover all the way up you'll probably get boomy sounding bass on music. u could try setting the fronts (& all others) to small or

try some of the other connections using speaker level and/or front preouts on the sony & setting sub:no.

so maybe it would be best to hook up all 3 inputs including the LFE in. anyone?

happy listenin.

------------------

Klipsch KLF 30 (front), KLF C-7, Cornwall I (rear)

Velodyne HGS-18 sub woofer

Monsterbass 400 sub interconnects & Monster MCX Biwire & Z-12 cable

Marantz SR-8000 receiver

Sony DVP-C650D cd/dvd player

Sony Trinitron 27" stereo tv

Toshiba hi-fi stereo vcr

Technics dual cassette deck

Scientific Atlanta Explorer 2000 digital cable box

Boa's Listenin Lounge:

Klipsch RF-3 (front), RC-3, cheap little Technics (rear)

Monster MCX Biwires

Sony STR-DE935 a/v receiver

Kenwood KR-9600 AM/FM stereo receiver

Teac PD-D1200 5-disk cd changer

Technics direct drive turntable

Sega Genesis game player

Sub: None yet

rock on!

This message has been edited by boa12 on 05-10-2001 at 03:23 PM

[bscross]

Thanks for the reply. Yeah, I was thinking if I used all 3 inputs(LFE,L,R), I would be able to filter music with the low pass, but leave the LFE intact. But if a DVD did not have LFE, would I be missing out on any bass by turning the low pass up?

I wish the manual was a little better. Also, I have large floor standing speakers with 2 12" woofers in each. What would you recommend setting the low pass filter to on the sub? I am new to this whole bass management thing. Thanks a bunch.

--B.

[boa12]

bc, which sony do u have? the de945? can u adjust the

sub-out filter on the sony? the sony sends all lfe to it's sub out. so u don't want to cut that off w/ the ksw' crossover.

it's just on the low bass from like a cd where the sony

cuts off the low bass to the sub out either at a set freq like 80hz. or is it adjustable on your sony?

------------------

Klipsch KLF 30 (front), KLF C-7, Cornwall I (rear)

Velodyne HGS-18 sub woofer

Monsterbass 400 sub interconnects & Monster MCX Biwire & Z-12 cable

Marantz SR-8000 receiver

Sony DVP-C650D cd/dvd player

Sony Trinitron 27" stereo tv

Toshiba hi-fi stereo vcr

Technics dual cassette deck

Scientific Atlanta Explorer 2000 digital cable box

Boa's Listenin Lounge:

Klipsch RF-3 (front), RC-3, cheap little Technics (rear)

Monster MCX Biwires

Sony STR-DE935 a/v receiver

Kenwood KR-9600 AM/FM stereo receiver

Teac PD-D1200 5-disk cd changer

Technics direct drive turntable

Sega Genesis game player

Sub: None yet

rock on!

[bscross]

boa, I have the de945. If you set the front speakers to small, you can adjust the cutoff frequency of them (default is 120). Even though I have large fronts I have to set the fronts to small or I get very little out of the sub. That is the only adjustment you can make.

The good thing about the ksw-15 is that the LFE in is not affected by the low pass filter, right? So I may try plugging into all 3 inputs and setting my fronts back to large, then setting the low pass on the ksw to 80. Maybe this is the ideal setup for the sony/ksw. That way the sub is used for all LFE, but is not overtaxed by bass in the 80-120 range? I watched the rock last night and it seemed a bit overpowering at some points.

The main use of my sub is for HT, so I am not worried about too much bass in music. I have the pro media v4.1 which I use to listen to mp3s and they are great. I think at some point I will trade the large fronts for some satellites (quintets?).

thanks for the info..

[boa12]

bc, that's right on. or u could just hook up the L&R inputs on the ksw, move it's crossover all the way to 120hz & set your sony's crossover at like 60hz (wish i had that adjustable crossover on my sony 935. shoulda got the 945 then. if i knew now... )

------------------

Klipsch KLF 30 (front), KLF C-7, Cornwall I (rear)

Velodyne HGS-18 sub woofer

Monsterbass 400 sub interconnects & Monster CX-2 biwire & Z-12 cable

Marantz SR-8000 receiver

Sony DVP-C650D cd/dvd player

Sony Trinitron 27" stereo tv

Toshiba hi-fi stereo vcr

Technics dual cassette deck

Scientific Atlanta Explorer 2000 digital cable box

Boa's Listenin Lounge:

Klipsch RF-3 (front), RC-3, cheap little Technics (rear)

Monster MCX Biwires

Sony STR-DE935 a/v receiver

Kenwood KR-9600 AM/FM stereo receiver(stereo power amp for rf-3)

Teac PD-D1200 5-disk cd changer

Technics direct drive turntable

Sega Genesis game player

Sub: None yet

rock on!

[Domain]

bscross,

I could be wrong, might be wrong, and most probably am wrong

The KSW's apparently sum the Left & Right inputs, which when hooked up via a Y-adapter, which yeilds something like a 6db increase in output (~2 times the original output).

Following that logic, I would assume that adding the LFE input to the previously combined left and right inputs would yeild another increase of approximately 3.6db (~45% increase in volume), but maybe more like 1.8db...that is probably a question better answered by BobG.

Now, this is all personal taste, but I would probably use the unfiltered LFE input only. This way your avoiding "cascading" crossovers, letting your reciever do all the "bass management" or filtering. Of course, you're losing the db increase by summing the inputs, but you should be able to match that by increasing the KSW's level. I know I wish I had this option on my KSW-12

In the end though, just do whatever makes it sound the best to you...

Domain <- "Suffering from the highly contagious and uncurable disease known as Acousticus Tweakitus"

Fixed Smiley/Can't Spell/Bad Grammer

This message has been edited by Domain on 05-11-2001 at 04:07 PM

[boa12]

yea domain could be right on there w/ that lfe(nonfiltered) only. save on cable expense. just wonder if that will increase db by also hooking the L&R

too. but if u have that adjustable front/sub crossover u could use just the lfe in (that was probably a fix to the sony 935).

i've decided w/ mine to just use the sub out to line ins, turn the sub crossover off, & set my mains&center to small. seems to sound best on everything together.

good luck. those ksw are different beasts to tame

------------------

Klipsch KLF 30 (front), KLF C-7, Cornwall I (rear)

Velodyne HGS-18 sub woofer

Monsterbass 400 sub interconnects & Monster CX-2 biwire & Z-12 cable

Marantz SR-8000 receiver

Sony DVP-C650D cd/dvd player

Sony Trinitron 27" stereo tv

Toshiba hi-fi stereo vcr

Technics dual cassette deck

Scientific Atlanta Explorer 2000 digital cable box

Boa's Listenin Lounge:

Klipsch RF-3 (front), RC-3, cheap little Technics (rear)

Monster MCX Biwires

Sony STR-DE935 a/v receiver

Kenwood KR-9600 AM/FM stereo receiver(stereo power amp for rf-3)

Teac PD-D1200 5-disk cd changer

Technics direct drive turntable

Sega Genesis game player

Sub: None yet

rock on!

[Domain]

Boa,

Yeah these KSW's have been an interesting experience. Or perhaps the problem is that I'm trying to make it more complicated then it needs to be.

Anyway, adding the L & R inputs will give you that db increase, but then you would just be reintroducing the KSW's crossover back into the mix ("cascading effect").

The other thing that concerns me about using all 3 inputs is the power requirements involved. Now I assume (once again, something better directed toward BobG), that the L & R inputs (giving ~6db increase) are upping the power requirements almost 4 times. Adding the LFE unfiltered input to these (which may give either ~3.6 or ~1.8 db increase) would up the total power requirements from the amp to something like 7 or even 8 times.

Or....I could be wrong

Domain <- "Finding innumerable ways to confuse himself every day"

[boa12]

domain, yea if we get too finicky there may never be a solution.

i guess u mean the power requirements on your home's power supply, not the receiver as we're talking preamp level(?)

anyway, scratch the above for me. to deny the klf-30 under 80 or higher low bass is a total injustice.

what i'm going to try & probably stick w/ is to put my vel's crossover back in around 80hz & keep the front klf-30s on large. that way they're not being cut off on low bass on music & they tend to blend well w/ the vel's Beginning cut-off @ 80hz.

for LFE, not to worry. i checked w/ the vel tech & he said the sub even then will be putting out at only -3db

@ 120hz (due to the crossover rolloff/slope). besides,

most LFE is below 60hz & that's really where u get your

slam.

so in essence starting to cut-off LFE @ 80hz ain't so bad at all.

i'd be leary of using just the LFE nonfiltered input because then you're at the mercy of the receiver's cut- off to it's sub out which is in most cases is nonadjustable (but in bc's case having an adjustable cross on the receiver is ideal). ie, there should still be a point where your sub's crossover blends well w/ your receiver & the main speaks. usually somewhere between 50hz & a lil over 80hz(if that's the set sub cut-off on the receiver) & depending on your bass preferences.

------------------

Klipsch KLF 30 (front), KLF C-7, Cornwall I (rear)

Velodyne HGS-18 sub woofer

Monsterbass 400 sub interconnects & Monster CX-2 biwire & Z-12 cable

Marantz SR-8000 receiver

Sony DVP-C650D cd/dvd player

Sony Trinitron 27" stereo tv

Toshiba hi-fi stereo vcr

Technics dual cassette deck

Scientific Atlanta Explorer 2000 digital cable box

Boa's Listenin Lounge:

Klipsch RF-3 (front), RC-3, cheap little Technics (rear)

Monster MCX Biwires

Sony STR-DE935 a/v receiver

Kenwood KR-9600 AM/FM stereo receiver(stereo power amp for rf-3)

Teac PD-D1200 5-disk cd changer

Technics direct drive turntable

Sega Genesis game player

Sub: None yet

rock on!

[Domain]

Boa,

I think I misunderstood what you were trying to say

Did you mean running a Y-adapter (or rather I guess it would be a "tri"-adapter ) from the recievers L/R/Sub preouts strictly to the KSW's unfiltered LFE input? If thats the case, then there *shouldn't* be any summing of the signal, so no db increase.

The power requirements I was refereing to would apply to the KSW's amp, when you connect from strictly the recievers Sub preout to the KSW L/R/LFE input via "tri"-adapter.

Anyway , I read a real interesting post (very informative) about the whole crossover / sub, etc issue:

http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/Forum3/HTML/003524.html

Specifically check Brian Florian's post (6th post down).

Domain <- "Mind overflow - Too much information, not enough space left"

[boa12]

thanks domain.

i thought right after i posted that u may be talking of the ksw's power. that's something somebody w/ the ksw knowledge like bobg could answer but don't know if he wants to revisit this again

[boa12]

well domain i read brian. he seems to provide more logic than most i've heard, but again it depends on the specific equipment used & the listener prefs (imo )

f.e., w/ my klf-30 & vel hgs-18" on music, say some AC/DC, i just don't get that punch of bass on the kick drum if i set the fronts to small. iow, the klf handle

the 2nd octave much better than the Vel.

so i do tend to set my fronts & rears(cornwalls) to large.

brian says setting mains to large along w/ a sub provides a 3db boost. i thought that was a good thing.

so i'm thinking it's just a matter of getting the sub to blend w/ the fronts. there is that matter of dueling filters/crossovers, but w/ high quality equipment hopefully that won't be a problem.

when my vel gets fixed(broken rca plug) i'll definitely

be doing the research. ruled out using the front preouts to the sub anyway.

------------------

Klipsch KLF 30 (front), KLF C-7, Cornwall I (rear)

Velodyne HGS-18 sub woofer

Monsterbass 400 sub interconnects & Monster CX-2 biwire & Z-12 cable

Marantz SR-8000 receiver

Sony DVP-C650D cd/dvd player

Sony Trinitron 27" stereo tv

Toshiba hi-fi stereo vcr

Technics dual cassette deck

Scientific Atlanta Explorer 2000 digital cable box

Boa's Listenin Lounge:

Klipsch RF-3 (front), RC-3, cheap little Technics (rear)

Monster MCX Biwires

Sony STR-DE935 a/v receiver

Kenwood KR-9600 AM/FM stereo receiver(stereo power amp for rf-3)

Teac PD-D1200 5-disk cd changer

Technics direct drive turntable

Sega Genesis game player

Sub: None yet

rock on!

This message has been edited by boa12 on 05-12-2001 at 01:04 PM

[Domain]

Boa,

I think his post was well thought out, and gave a good deal of technical information as to why, rather then just a answer without a explination.

Definately though, its all going to depend on equipment, personal tastes etc .

I think I finally got the sound I want (still "seems" a little weak in the low end, but i'm begining to like it more and more ). Then again, i've been thinking about adding to/or replacing the KSW with one of those monster SVS subs

Domain <- "Someone take away my CC's before I go broke"