Speakers, Antennas, whatever....

[Clipped and Shorn]

No corners for Khorns, but alas, I figured out a way to hang up a 160 Meter Full Wave Loop on the real estate here, that is approx. 540 feet in length enclosing the largest area possible, hopefully to be fed with 450 ohm ladder line as opposed to coax. If that doesn't work I will lower via the pulley system and replace with 50 ohm coax which may fair better near all those nearby cable, telephone, and power lines. Less loss with the balanced line and would be superior if possible.

Many of the issues are the same as audio, eg. what wire to use as connectors. The difference is that speakers broadcast sound to your living space for the most part, antennas put a signals out to the universe (mostly bounced around the Earth via the ionosphere).

So my deliberations have gone from Long Wire, to Mono Band Dipole, to Multi Band Dipole, to G5RV, to Carolina Windom, to Extended Double Zepp, to Off Center Fed Dipoles, to Double Bazookas, and now eureka I am excited about the possibilities of the Full Wave 160 Meter Loop (multiband) fed with ladder line coming right thru the wall, through the attic, through the ceiling, and into the transmitter.

Loopy Loop

what forum was this again.......

c7s

[leok]

C&S,

I think the issues are vary similar. I enjoyed your description of the antenna and feed.

Leo

[Doc Robin]

One of my friends and fellow hams just put up a full waveloop i will have to ask him about it. i have seen it and it is spread all over the place. It took him most of the day to get it up; having to trim limbs and get the ropes up. I think he used 75 ohm coax instead of ladder line. i will find out this weekend and let you know. I do know that the SWR is flat, which was a must for him. using a Icom HF rig and a Alpha amp at over 1500 watts. He has missed placed the 5000 watt slug for his Bird watt meter and he can only check it up to 1500 until he finds or buys another slug. 73`s Bill KJ5DQ

[cwm]

I run a 300 foot (total length) horizontal loop (not square but roughly triangular) at only about 17ft and fed with heavy duty 300 ohm twin lead and it plays like a trouper from 80m-10m, although its a bit of a "cloud burner" on 80m and difficult to load on 160m. I think you cant beat a loop for a good all around antenna and, of course, its very quiet on receive. I'm planning on building an 80m doublet fed with balanced line for 80m/up and getting it up to the 40-45ft. level when the weather breaks........

[Clipped and Shorn]

Thanks for the antenna recommendations. There is so much information and really the theoretical physics is complex, and then the reality is even more complex what with variations from ideal heights, the reflective qualitiy of the Earth at that point, objects nearby especially large metal ones, etc. all altering the theoretical calculations, the bottom line is try the speakers in your room and see how they sound, or try hanging the antenna and see how it works.

I looked up in my attic space to see how the feed line would come in and it is a pretty clear shot without crossing too many obstacles and house wiring etc. However the drop from the antenna to the house does get near some telephone lines, cable tv lines, and the AC drop to my other building. I am wondering about how these various lines might effect the 50 foot run of 450 ohm ladder line and wonder if a coax run would be better and less likely to be effected by potential interference both ways. Are coax feed lines for ham work recommended in this situation? I would tend to think so since they say you can run those coax feed line any way you want (eg. near metal rain gutters etc.) whearas the open feed line they say must be clear.

I just know that by reading about it, the open balanced line is supposed to be less lossy and easier to tune for multiband, although plenty of operators use coax multiband. I do have a tuner as well.

The 80m loop with 300 ohm sounds cool (I can just imagine those 65wpm QSOs you have using it), it is amazing how various compromises end up working well in particular situations. The first rule of antennas is "having some kind of antenna is better than no antenna". At the moment I have a random length end fed wire (about 130'+ actually) I may possibly try even that for a moment after getting my ticket again, before putting up the 160M loop.

I also see an another possibility of running an OCF dipole nearby. If different antenna systems do not cross each other how does proximity to one another effect them. There would be a run of this dipole which might be roughly parallel to a leg of the other loop for 30 feet or so but maybe 15 to 20 feet away from it (but maybe closer like 10 feet). I like the idea of experimenting with different (low cost) possibilities, but do no want to compromise the main antenna which at this point will be that 160 FW loop.

A Very Friendly Antenna

C&S

PS what kind of rigs you guys using?

PSS, now that I think of it, the loop antenna is the one most similar to a loudspeaker (one loop on the antenna, as opposed to the many in the voice coil of the speaker).

[cwm]

Well, for my part, I run an Icom IC-735 and also have a Tentec Scout with all band modules except 160, 12, and 10m. The Tentec is the only rig I bought new and I use it for backup and vacation use. Audio takes up too much of my extra "sheckel". For VHF-UHF I have a Yaesu VX-5R handi with 2m, 440meg and 6m----excellent little rig! I've been thinking of upgrading to a newer HF rig but have a lot of fun with what I have and am not in any big hurry, besides, I've been "drooling" over the Denon DVD-2900 (or maybe the Yamaha DVD-S2300) universal player and I'm too cheap to tackle both wants within a one year time frame!! I think the LaScalas and velodyne sub would play those new formats (SACD or DVD-A) quite handily. The last statement is to bring this post back to the subject of audio!! (grin)

[Clipped and Shorn]

I can see now that I am going to have to learn more about contemporary tranceivers. Actually I picked up a Kenwood TS530S but have not tried it yet.

I will check out that Icom you mentioned. Currently what HF rigs on the used market today would you highly recommend?

c7s

[Doc Robin]

well if i can figure out how to post a link i will on the full loop antenna my buddy has up right now. I stand corrected he is only pumping 1KW into it not 1.5KW. All the top names are good some just offer more features for you to play with and pay for. Just give me a basic HF rig with DSP. And it will be off to DX land. Bill

[Doc Robin]

www.bloomington.in.us/~wh2t/loop.html see if this will work. bill

[Clipped and Shorn]

WH2T has some enthusiastic web pages. Actually he is one of the sources of my enthusiasm about the 160M full wave loop, as well as the Extended Zepp.

Do you actually know this guy?

< a href=http://www.wh2t.com/>Dr. Ace

I still go back and forth about the type of feed line I will use, but the pulley system on the masts should make changing things a bit easier. The ladder line is supposed to be more efficient and easier to use multiband, but the coax is easier and perhaps would be quieter running near other wires coming into the house here.

Yesterday I borrowed a sling shot and dug up my fishing reel, I guess you know where I am going with this. I have two trees which I can use and am thinking about putting up an OCF Dipole . It will be in proximity of the other loop antenna so I am not sure if there will be interaction of some kind. In the end this antenna thing is experimental and one does not know the exact results for a particular site until it is tried out. I practiced with the sling shot and it will be a piece of cake shooting a line up to these 65 tall trees to hang some lanyards that will also be the halyards for the antenna.

C&S