Speaker Positioning for New HT Room

[Big Ben]

I would like to get some advice on the best location for my speakers for my new HT room that I am building.

The room is 16.5' wide x 33' long. The ceiling is 8' high.

I have the following hardware: Sony V Series 48" RPTV. (soon to be a Sony Widescreen 65") Marantz SR-19EX. Klipsch RF3, RC3, RS3, 2 x KSW12.

I am going to buy 2 x Marantz MA500 monoblocks plus another set of RS3 so I can get 6.1 sound.

I play 50% music, 50% movies.

Thx Ben

[HornEd]

With a handle like Big Ben, you deserve a big deep sound. With the size of your room (approx. 4,356 cu. ft.), you will be hard pressed to approach reference level bass with the two subs you have. Further, IMHO great HT comes from having the space to use the same full-range speakers in all but the sub position.

The one exception might be the front center which may have size, shielding, etc. constraints. I believe your RC-3 has the Klipsch "tapered array" system that rolls off one woofer early enough to make the dialogue frequency range emanate from a single woofer. I've owned and enjoyed an RC3 but went on to a fuller Klipsch Sound. Upwards of 65% of 6.1 discrete movie sound is programmed to come through your center speaker, so it critical to make it the best you can. If you have the scratch, a new RC7 is most likely to solve the itch from what I've read on this board.

With the money you are putting into your 65" Sony and Marantz plus the size of the room you have to fill with quality sound... an eventual "upsizing" of your "Klipsch Sound" is something to consider... and, take in from an old horn fancier, adding one full-range RF3 is better than a pair of RS3's for 6.1 sound.

And adding a pair of RF7's (if your into the new precise sound) or KLF 30's (if you want to get in on great close out deals) for mains and shifting your RF3's to side surrounds... and putting your RS3's all the way back would make more sense. The rear effects speakers in 6.1 (whether you use one speaker or two is only a room size consideration, the rear channel is monaural) will usually have the least critical sound and, therefore, the best place to put your weakest discrete sound handling speakers.

Since you are modifying your rig for "discrete" 6.1 sound in a large area (dts or Dolby Digital)... why use side/surround speakers that were originally designed for "ambient" sound in areas in limited spaces (Dolby ProLogic)? The new "standard" 5.1 configuration, from a movie sound engineer's viewpoint, assumes five identical speakers and a reference level subwoofer(s)... so why not build your HT toward that ideal? As for me, the discrete 6.1 trend (e.g., "Gladiator", "Haunting", etc.) and the ability to convert 5.1 input to discrete 6.1 (matrixed rear channel) makes 6.1 a great HT choice.

While the "ambient oriented surround speakers" may do a slightly better job on old program material, the punch & panache of discrete sound through full-range speakers in the side/surround position is MUCH preferred IMHO... especially when it comes to tone & timbre matched with the mains for those back-to-front, etc., sound pans!

Of course, I am also an advocate of expanding the "background soundstage" of my front speaker array to include Front Effects speakers mounted high and wide of the mains. I keep the mains close to my 65" Mitsubishi RPHD1080i for better linkage with dialogue and action.

After all that, let me address your positioning question. The first rule of positioning is to buy an analog SPL meter from Radio Shack for about $35. In a modern, multi-speaker world, and given the psychoacoustic potential of audio fans, the human ear is no longer capable of the precision that makes HT as great as it can be with whatever you have to work with.

The second rule is that position changes of only a few inches one way or another can make HUGE differences in the sound perceived in your sweet spot. Bear in mind that all horn loaded speakers must be aimed like a rifle for maximum effect... which usually means a toe in toward the "sweetspot" for the mains and a corresponding tilt-down for the front center if it is mounted on top of a monitor.

The third rule is place your speaker arrays where a movie sound engineer expects them to be. The Mains immediately left and right of the screen, the Center in the middle of the screen (or on top and angled down if need be). The rear array should begin with the "side/surround" speakers against the side walls (facing each other, actually, I prefer a very slight toe in toward the front) and positioned slightly behind and above where your ears will be in the sweetspot. The rear channel goes against the rear wall midway between the side speakers... or if you use two speakers, split the distance in thirds and park your rears accordingly and, usually, no toe-in is required.

Standing waves are the silent thieves of bang-for-the-buck HT. I have used as many as five Klipsch subs (and tried many more, brand-wise) in configuring my 6.1 system. The more woofers (over two in the same corner) throwing out long bass waves... the greater the potential conflict of standing waves that will rob you of why you spent all this money on amps and speakers in the first place! The best potential sound comes from setting all your speakers for what they do best. That means setting all your speakers to SMALL and letting your sub(s) carry the load in the "non-directional" bass range (usually below 80Hz).

Of course, very few subs can be configured to give you true Reference Level performance by Dolby standards. With all speakers set to SMALL, the MINIMUM Dolby requirement for "Reference Level" bass is 121dB at all key listening positions! Also, it is very hard to do with big woofers sending shockwaves from all directions. Usually, pairing two identical speakers on one corner will give you about a 6dB low bass boost... and combine their deep waves to minimize cancellations. Not measuring up to minimum Dolby reference levels is what cooled my ardor for a lot of the big name subs in the price/performance arena.

While, perhaps, not everyone is "into" the better-than-the-local-theater chase... but you can likely create instant Reference Level bass in your HT for $2,500 (delivered) with a Twin SVS CS-Ultra subs fired by a Samson 1,000 watt power amp. But, for the moment, nothing else in my experience is likely to transform your HT experience with as much power and majesty for so little cash.

Building a great subwoofer capability is a study in trade-offs. Generally, massive 18" woofers can move the huge amounts of air that it takes to really go low... but lack the quickness it takes to articulate complex musical nuances. That's why so many installation pros use two subs with very quick, long-throw, 12" woofers. And all "AccoustiMassMyth" jokes aside, BIG MOUTH BASS is no place to skimp on cubic inches... or strength of enclosure. Reference Level bass creates internal dynamic pressures that can split most sub enclosures on the way to "Saving Private Ryan"!

Of course, as long as this post may be, I have just skimmed the HT surface. You will find a lot of good, knowledgeable and helpful Klipsch folks on this BBS... and they will tell you that the Golden HT Rule is "Let your ears be THE authority determine what sounds best in YOUR HT space." So, when it comes to body parts, don't monkey around... neither your salesman's lip or your best friend's nose can beat sticking the final decision in your ear! HornEd

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"Where Legends Live! Klipsch Powered HT"

FOREGROUND SOUND STAGE:

KLF 30 Center, KLF 30 Mains, KLF 10 Front Effects

BACKGROUND SOUND STAGE:

KLF 30 L&R Side/Surrounds, KLF 30 Rear Effects

LARGE MOUTH BASS:

Twin SVS CS-Ultra sub with Samson Megawatt Amp

SPEAKER SUPPORT SYSTEMS:

Mitsubishi RPHD1080i 65", Yamaha RX-V3000 Receiver

and such... Tweakin' On!

Music Respite Room ala Cornwall under construction...

This message has been edited by HornEd on 07-31-2001 at 01:09 PM

[Big Ben]

HornEd:

Thank you very much for spending the time to educate me on this important subject which I want get right the first time!

In a nut shell, given the speakers that I have what you use/add to make this a great HT system.

EG: Fronts, Center, Sides, Rears.

The reason I am asking this is that would I not have a miss match of speakers going with RF7's as apposed to another set of RF3's for the rears.

I was also thinking of eventually going with 4 KSW12's or two additional KSW15's.

Thx Ben