In/ceiling or In/wall speakers?

[ditobot]

I am setting up my home for surround sound and plan on putting the

left/right and rear speakers in/ceiling. I had a chance to demo the

R-5800-W and R-5650-W along with the R-5650-C and the R-5800-C

speakers. I was much more impressed with the the in wall speakers;

however, they were in a lackluster retail store display and I'm sure

there a million compromising factors with the setup but I was able to

A/B them using the same hardware and the In-wall speakers had a much

more expansive range along with more punch in the low end. Is there any

particular reason, other than depth, that the speakers are classified

as

wall or ceiling speakers. Would it be more advantageous to install

ceiling speakers in the ceiling and why. I was going to just put the

wall speakers in the ceiling but didn't know if I was cutting my throat

by doing so. I should mention that the ceiling that these will be going

in is between the first and second floor so there is about two feet of

clearance between the ceiling and the second floor so it isn't like the

bass will just be disappearing in an attic. Any advice would be

greatly appreciated.

[michael hurd]

Just going out on a limb here, it would seem that the in-wall speakers are designed to use the volume of air trapped in a stud wall as the restoring force for the speaker system. IOW, the parameters of the woofer are tailored for the best performance in that installation, they do not use a sealed enclosure, like some companies.

Both the in-wall and in-ceiling speakers feature pivoting tweeters, so if you are using the ceiling for sure, I'd tend to select the product that is designed for that purpose.

If you can use the stud walls instead of the ceiling, I would recommend that you do that instead, you still could mount them very close to the ceiling. You can invert the speakers, so the woofer is on top, and thus closer to the ceiling/wall junction for better performance.

You did not specify what you were using as a center channel, were you considering a conventional ( box ) center channel? If so, you may have sonic issues where sound pans across the screen, as the apparent height of the sound will change radically.

Again, this is only one opinion, maybe a moderator ( like BobG ) will chime in here.

[ditobot]

Those were some of my very concerns. Neither speaker, in-wall or

in-ceiling, have backs on them. The in wall speakers have been

engineered to fit within a 4" space as opposed to the ceiling where

those limitations don't exist.

My room limits my options as it is enclosed by 2 1/2 walls sort of,

meaning that one of the walls does not extend all of the way back as

there is a stair case on that side and the opposite wall is an outside

wall so it is filled up with studs going every which way, that leaves

the ceiling.

Are there any other options for in-ceiling speakers that are

preferable to the ones I am considering that also won't break the

bank?

The in-ceiling speakers have the all-in-one woofer and tweeter with the

tweeter mounted on the dome of the woofer. I am not really a fan of

this design, not even in my car. The in-ceiling speakers had them

separated out and had a more traditional horn design for the tweeter. I

only wish they were a little more aggressive on their in ceiling model

since there are less limitations there.

Yes, I am going to have a center channel and it probably will sit lower

than the in-ceiling speakers. These are some of the limitations of

having to retrofit an existing room. Unfortunately I have windows on

one wall as well so I am looking at maximizing the potential of the

room while not being entirely unrealistic in my expectations.

Regards,

Randy

[formica]

I think the inherent orientation and placement of ceiling speakers was the main reason why those sounded poorer than the inwalls. Using the later in your ceiling will probably produce similar results.

I only wish they were a little more aggressive on their in ceiling model since there are less limitations there.

Although there may be fewer decorating limitations with ceiling speakers there are some significant acoustic ones.

Ceiling speakers are best used for ambient music or non-localized effects. A lot of the problems arise from the units performance off axis, where you will most probably be in respect to them. The coaxial format performs better in near field off-axis listening than traditional units, and therefore are more common with ceiling speakers. Horns are also more directional and not advisable for ceiling speakers. Tall ceilings and larger number of units helps equalize it, but you are fighting a loosing battle.

OTOH, you have better chance at being placed on axis with inwalls... and hence the generally better performance.

Rob

[ditobot]

Okay so I am limited with my options due to the design of my family room. I have attached a picture of my family room so you can see my dilemma (this is actually the model). The picture is taken from the kitchen, looking into the family room. It is hard to tell but the family room is actually about 24' in length. In order to get rear channel speakers I am going almost certainly going to have to mount them in the ceiling. I don't really see many alternatives to the in-ceiling speakers. I am open to any suggestions to help maximize my listening experience. The ceilings are 9' and I have about 2' to spare above the ceiling between the 1st and 2nd floor.

Randy

[formica]

Okay so I am limited with

my options due to the design of my family room. ... I don't really see many

alternatives to the in-ceiling speakers. I am open to any suggestions to help

maximize my listening experience.

Not many options, as you need "walls" for

inwalls. The only two solutions I see

are ceiling units or regular box speakers on stands.

Don't get me wrong, as I do understand the ceiling speaker's

place in the market, but I just didn't want you to be disappointed. I've done ceiling units for PA, and I can

testify to the limited off axis performance. Boxed speakers would give you

better sound but it would require significant negotiations with your better

half (assuming you won't be living there alone). []

As an up note, there is relatively little content in most

movies coming from the rear channels, so you aren't sacrificing much using the ceiling

units. Get yourself better mains with the money saved... it's all about

compromises afterall.

Rob