DNTBY4N Posted October 12, 2001 Share Posted October 12, 2001 As Christmas rolls around, my brother in law got me for the family grab bag. He works at an auto parts store so I figured perfect, he can get me Dynamat to cover my La Scala's. One problem, in the past I have noticed posts on how to do this but never paid too much attention. Now that I'm interested could someone totally walk me thru this entire process as if a 3rd grader were doing it. I don't know if I use self stick or how hot to get the oven or the horn or how much will cover the horn????? If someone could please guide this idiot I would greatly appreciate it Thanks This message has been edited by DNTBY4N on 10-12-2001 at 10:14 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DNTBY4N Posted October 15, 2001 Author Share Posted October 15, 2001 Well, A well deserved thank you for all your help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Garrison Posted October 16, 2001 Share Posted October 16, 2001 DNTBY4N (Don't Buy Foreign? That's great...) Think the reason you didn't get much of a response here is no who could answer the question saw the post. Probably would have gotten more response (well, a response, anyway) if it'd been posted under Updating Older Speakers. Anywho... I used Dynamat to cover the metal midrange horns in my 1974 vintage La Scalas. Step by step, here's what I went through... 1) WHICH DYNAMAT? There are at least three different varieties of this stuff. The original Dynamat is made out of some asphault-like substance, brown colored, weighs a ton, and smells bad. There are two newer versions, both using some sort of high-tech polomer compound with a silver mylar-ish backing. They are much lighter, and are supposed to be just as effective at damping. I couldn't figure out which one to use, so I tried damping one horn with the old, icky, brown stuff, and the other speaker's horn with the newest, generation III stuff. After going through the process below, I found that the old, icky, smelly, heavy, brown stuff worked a LOT better, and I went through the hassel of applying the brown variety over the top of the silver variety on the horn I'd covered with the silver. Interestingly enough, I hear no difference between the horn covered with one layer of brown Dynamat, and the horn covered with the silver Dynamat with a layer of brown Dynamat over it. 2) How much to get? I bought two boxes (two rolls), that was plenty. 3) How to apply? First, you have to remove the horn from the La Scala. I didn't disassemble the horn (didn't take the driver off the mouth) - just disconnected the wires from the crossover block and took the whole thing out in one piece. I figured I'd cut the Dynamat into four pieces for each horn. Two large triangular shapes to cover the top and bottom of the horn, and two narrower triangular pieces for the sides of the horns. (NOte that I'm talking about the METAL horns, here... if you have the fiberglass horns, with the myriad little step-like sections, I have no idea how you'd apply this stuff other than cutting it into a zillion little rectangles and applying pieces to each individual step.) After I cut the Dynamat into the shapes, I decided that, as the instructions said to warm the stuff up before applying, I'd use my kitchen oven. The Dynamat has a self-adhesive side covered with platic film - you pull the film off, then apply the Dynamat. Apparently, adhesive works better if it's warm. I turned the oven on low, let it warm up a bit, turned it off and let it cool a bit, the placed the four pieces of Dynamat inside the oven. Let them sit in there for a few minutes, then took the first piece out. *** THIS WAS A SERIOUSLY BAD IDEA *** The Dynamat was sooooo hot I burned my fingers pretty badly - it really retains heat. Also, when this stuff gets hot, it is about the consistency of pizza dough. Stretchy, goopy, sticks to your fingers (and BURNS), you should have seen me hopping around the kitchen trying to simultaneously pull the plastic film backing off this piece without distorting its shape so badly it wouldn't fit the horn, trying not to let it glop onto the floor, trying not to burn my hands, and realizing the other three pieces in the oven were starting to sag down through the rack and were about to adhere to the bottom of the oven. I finally got it on the horn and kind of scrunched it into shape, then got the other three pieces out of the oven and onto some wax paper before they destroyed the oven. I applied the silver version the same way, and it was much easier to work with. Too bad it didn't work as well... Anyway, once this stuff cooled on the horn, you couldn't get it off with a hammer and chisel. It is BONDED TO THE HORN. If I did this again (not too !(@#&*($#@& likely), I'd use a hair dryer or heat gun to heat the Dynamat, or be a LOT more careful about making sure the oven was merely warm and not hot. 4) What did it do? Biggest difference is that at louder volume levels, I used to get a real coloration of voices, particularly female singers - kind of a "hooting" overtone. Also noticed this on the (few) classical pieces I enjoy - clarinet and oboe sounded a bit odd at higher volume levels. After applying Dynamat, when I turn up the volume, it just gets louder, but doesn't have the weird colorations that used to appear as I turned it up. Also note that some percussion (snare drum, close miked kick drum or tympanii) have more clearly defined stick on drum head sound, with better body of drum sound filling in after initial wack. Differences are not night and day, but do make my speakers more enjoyable at louder levels. Hope that helps. Ray ------------------ Music is art Audio is engineering Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim-analog Posted October 16, 2001 Share Posted October 16, 2001 Hi DNTYBY4N, What may be easier to try first would be to swap out the metal squaker horn with a later model plastic horn. I just did this taking the metal sqs out of my Khorns and replacing them with the plastic versions from my LaScallas. They seem to be much less resonent. I guess they're availble as replacement parts from Klipsch. The difference seemed to be similar to the other reply you received; at higer levels there wasn't the "overhang" that would tend to smear notes. I then installed _very_ dampened versions of the same plastic sqs; the difference was far more subtle than just going from metal to plastic. I'm not sure of the exact type of substance used, as someone else had done it. The initial coating was with a greyish "tape" that is VERY sticky (adhears by itself with no adhesive or heating), about 3/8" thick, 3/4" wide and comes in rolls. It appears that about 2 layers were used, completely covering all surfaces of the horn. Seems to be easy to work with as it's quite ply-able and will conform easily to an irregular surface. It was then covered with a brown, relatively hard substance that prevents the sticky damping compound from attracting dirt and getting messy. I have NO idea what that material is. It _may_ be something used in the HVAC industry. Best of luck with your project! Regards, Jim ------------------ Jim@analogbros.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted October 16, 2001 Share Posted October 16, 2001 No, I respectfully disagree with Jim and (surprise!) with Ray - the easiest thing is the soft, cheap, easy to apply and remove rope caulk tweak, see my post at http://www.audioreview.com/reviews/Other/product_5472.shtml I did my Cornwalls based on the information I recived here. Much easier than Dynamat, worked great, fun project, too cheap not to try, easy to remove, nobody has posted that they liked their metal horns without it - need I say more ... ------------------ horns & subs; lights out & tubes glowing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai2000 Posted October 16, 2001 Share Posted October 16, 2001 Ray, having read your very vivid description of how tricky it was to apply Dynamat, I am extremely glad that I , like Colin, applied rope caulk to the squawker (metal) and tweeter horns. I am sure an experience like yours would have lead to a large amount of Dynamat ending up either against the kitchen wall or floor. Dynamat is probably more solid than rope caulk (and perhaps even more effective - though I notice a similar change of sound like you have described), but if one doesn't mind spending about 6hours fixing 5Kg of rope caulk to one's speakers, then one should give it a try (especially as it can be removed if one doesn't like the 'new' sound - which I doubt!). Wolfram Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Garrison Posted October 16, 2001 Share Posted October 16, 2001 Come on, guys, we're AUDIOPHILES. Given the choice between smelly, sticky, hot, hard to handle goop that can't be removed, or simple rope like stuff that just wraps around the horn, assuming they both accomplish the same result, how could you POSSIBLY select using the rope? Wait, the laundry just called, my hair shirt is ready... ------------------ Music is art Audio is engineering Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted October 18, 2001 Share Posted October 18, 2001 Ray, when I grow up I wanna be just like you - no life! P.S. after you have no life, what comes next? Do you become a Klipsch Angel? ------------------ HORNS & subs; leather couch & feet up; lights out & tubes glowing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Garrison Posted October 18, 2001 Share Posted October 18, 2001 Colin, Achieving "no life" status is easy. Simply: 1) decide to work in IT and become CTO of an Internet B2B exchange, then 2) attempt to keep business afloat during dot com crash, NASDAQ implosion, venture capital retraction, board division, ISP's filing Chapter 11 and hosting company collapse. Oh, and it helps if your application programmers are from Pakistan and the INS revokes their L1 Visa. Ray ------------------ Music is art Audio is engineering Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DNTBY4N Posted October 19, 2001 Author Share Posted October 19, 2001 Thank you all. We will see how it goes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Isotope Posted October 22, 2001 Share Posted October 22, 2001 While I am a great proponent of Dynamat (and my car is several dozen pounds heavier to prove it) for damping irregular surfaces, I would have to recommend a spray on or paint-on product, like Noise Killer Blue or any similar product. Over in the Car Audio world, Rockford used to sell a kit for about $25 that came with a nozzle and a pre-pressurized can of dampener that would just about cover the insides of two average sized door panels, and would therefore probably do two horns, no problem. Definately worth a look. ------------------ Dr. Isotope: Faster than a speeding moth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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