dakayus Posted May 20, 2006 Share Posted May 20, 2006 So my mom really appreciates good quality sound. She doesn't want to pay out the HUGE bucks for la scalas or what not and I need something to do during summer. So I thought why not just make them. I'm not looking for much bass. Perhaps a 6.5" subwoofer or around there. I'm thinking about just using 2 horns and putting them in a box. I have not much knowledge about cross overs and such, but I did complete electro physics and I have soldering experience and such. I also took a shop class so I sort of know how to work with wood a bit. I'm looking to make book shelf speakers. Anyone have recommendations on how to start designing them or what not? Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay481985 Posted May 20, 2006 Share Posted May 20, 2006 partsexpress.com acoustive-visions.com adireaudio.com diysubwoofers.com bah there is more but ummm the easy way out, refurbished iFi... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Cain Posted May 20, 2006 Share Posted May 20, 2006 Been there, done that...... Back in the early seventies, I had some University S9 speakers. Folded plywood horn, three-way crossover, etc. Went from 60w Dyna tube amps to Phase Linear 400's. Hmmmmm... I guess the turning point was going from my South West Technical Products 100w amplifier kits to my first Phase Linear 400. If I remember correctly, both cost about $1 a watt. No more looking like a refugee from an Erector set. I even got the wooden cabinets and stuffed muffin fans in them. I was cool [H] And with more power...... Maybe I could use more powerful woofer? Got six Gauss.... Gave the two with the lowest free air resonance to a buddy...... He still has 'em in his home S-9's.... Replaced the Cobraflex horns with some Fiberglas radials that sorta fit in the cabinet..... Tried piezo tweeters as replacements for the HF-206..... Spent lots of time and money..... Wasted was more like it. Never again. While I note many of the mods that folks do here, I am not one to try that anymore. I read with admiration how they tweak things and mix'n'match components. I got that out of my system 30+ years ago. I figure that the average factory might be a little smarter than me. I'll let them do all the research and I'll just buy what works for me. I'm lazy, I guess. My next large cabinets were Industrial La Scala's in the BG version. Still got 'em. I've added subs (EAW SB180) and auxilliary tweets (JBL 2405) but I'll never try to build my own cabinets again. YMMV.... [au] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajsons Posted May 20, 2006 Share Posted May 20, 2006 So my mom really appreciates good quality sound. She doesn't want to pay out the HUGE bucks for la scalas or what not and I need something to do during summer. You can build a pair of La Scalas (or Belles) without spending huge bucks. They're easy to make. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajsons Posted May 20, 2006 Share Posted May 20, 2006 Been there, done that...... Back in the early seventies, I had some University S9 speakers. Folded plywood horn, three-way crossover, etc. Went from 60w Dyna tube amps to Phase Linear 400's. Hmmmmm... Maybe I could use more powerful woofer? Got six Gauss.... Gave the two with the lowest free air resonance to a buddy...... He still has 'em in his home S-9's.... Replaced the Cobraflex horns with some Fiberglas radials that sorta fit in the cabinet..... Tried piezo tweeters as replacements for the HF-206..... Spent lots of time and money..... Wasted was more like it. My next large cabinets were Industrial La Scala's in the BG version. Still got 'em. I've added subs (EAW SB180) and auxilliary tweets (JBL 2405) but I'll never try to build my own cabinets again. YMMV.... [au] Bill, Where are the S-9's now? I have an S-8, and been looking for another one (and getting ready to build a pair of Deans). What do you think of the S9's? Armando Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Cain Posted May 21, 2006 Share Posted May 21, 2006 Bill, Where are the S-9's now? I have an S-8, and been looking for another one (and getting ready to build a pair of Deans). What do you think of the S9's? Armando I'm not familiar with S-8's. And I haven't found anything on the Internet about that old University gear. It's as if it never existed. If you have links, let me know. My four (highly modified) S-9's were traded out in 1979, after I closed a disco, in Pittsburgh. I have no clue what happened to the cabinets. In 1973 you could order unloaded cabinets in clear unfinished birch. They weren't that expensive ($150?) and were very high quality. Hell, I think I paid less than $700 for a new pair of S-9's in 1971. And the dealer sold me a pair of Dyna MK II's for $100, complete with pre-amps. It was sort of a shame to paint the cabinets black...... But when you haul things around they get banged up and black spray paint hides a lot of damage. The S-9's were loud as hell. The Cobraflex horn looks funky, but was surprisingly good. I suspect the driver was the same as the K-Horn. (T-30?) The HF-206 tweets were damn good with a phase plug to help dispersion. But the S-9 has the same natural limitation as the La Scala; the small mouth opening of the woofer horn. I personally think the S-9 is a more efficient design; the horn seems about 50% larger than a La Scala. The La Scala is only 24" x 24". Looking back, the JBL double scoops were the hot ticket in that era for good PA bottom end. But for listening at home, I don't think you'd have any problems with the University's. You can always get great, cheap subs these days that did not exist back then. In 1980 or so, I picked up the (4) LSI's after becoming familiar with Klipsch Industrials at Chujko Brothers. The Fiberglas and aluminum trim made a lot of sense to me, by then. And the splits made portability a little better. Plus, I could stack them two high. I didn't need to stack tables and then hoist a speaker on top of THAT to project over a crowd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dakayus Posted May 21, 2006 Author Share Posted May 21, 2006 what's the approximate costs to make a la scala? Oh yeah would you guys recommend using actual wood sheets or mdf and veneer it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dakayus Posted May 21, 2006 Author Share Posted May 21, 2006 Been there, done that...... Back in the early seventies, I had some University S9 speakers. Folded plywood horn, three-way crossover, etc. Went from 60w Dyna tube amps to Phase Linear 400's. Hmmmmm... I guess the turning point was going from my South West Technical Products 100w amplifier kits to my first Phase Linear 400. If I remember correctly, both cost about $1 a watt. No more looking like a refugee from an Erector set. I even got the wooden cabinets and stuffed muffin fans in them. I was cool [H] And with more power...... Maybe I could use more powerful woofer? Got six Gauss.... Gave the two with the lowest free air resonance to a buddy...... He still has 'em in his home S-9's.... Replaced the Cobraflex horns with some Fiberglas radials that sorta fit in the cabinet..... Tried piezo tweeters as replacements for the HF-206..... Spent lots of time and money..... Wasted was more like it. Never again. While I note many of the mods that folks do here, I am not one to try that anymore. I read with admiration how they tweak things and mix'n'match components. I got that out of my system 30+ years ago. I figure that the average factory might be a little smarter than me. I'll let them do all the research and I'll just buy what works for me. I'm lazy, I guess. My next large cabinets were Industrial La Scala's in the BG version. Still got 'em. I've added subs (EAW SB180) and auxilliary tweets (JBL 2405) but I'll never try to build my own cabinets again. YMMV.... [au] ummm... what? Sorry I don't quite get all of the jargon. I don't know what s-9's are nor gauss or free air resonators etc. and what is ymmv short for? I was actually thinking of using la scala horns and drivers but designing my own cabinates using some of my physics knowledge and 3d studio max. *I don't like auto cad* I suppose I'll be doing the designs and taking pictures and asking people how they think it would work. I do what to know what does the 15" driver look like on the la scala and where is it positioned etc. I know what the tweeter and mid looks like and the positioning but not the rest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay481985 Posted May 21, 2006 Share Posted May 21, 2006 what's the approximate costs to make a la scala? Oh yeah would you guys recommend using actual wood sheets or mdf and veneer it? real wood is not suitable for speakers as they have voids, grains etc. At the very least use mdf or void free baltic birch. MDF is 25 dollars a sheet 49X97X3/4 Baltic birch void free are 5X5 sheets and cost around 50 dollars. Void free baltic birch is good and strong and takes screws well when you pre drill mdf can split and such much to easily when screwing even when pre drilled and countersunk. Though it is cheaper and the prefered wood to use in speakers. MDF is a composite, think sawdust and glue in a slurry and pressed and heated to form void free no grain pieces of wood. It is heavier than oak but does dent easily. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Cain Posted May 21, 2006 Share Posted May 21, 2006 ummm... what? Sorry I don't quite get all of the jargon. I don't know what s-9's are nor gauss or free air resonators etc. and what is ymmv short for? I was actually thinking of using la scala horns and drivers but designing my own cabinates using some of my physics knowledge and 3d studio max. *I don't like auto cad* I suppose I'll be doing the designs and taking pictures and asking people how they think it would work. I do what to know what does the 15" driver look like on the la scala and where is it positioned etc. I know what the tweeter and mid looks like and the positioning but not the rest. Such confusion is not surprising. S-9's were a speaker manufactured by University. It was similar to the La Scala in that it had a compression chamber for the 15" woofer that loaded through a slot, into into a folded plywood horn. They were also a three-way system with (I believe) a rating of 50 or 75 watts. Damn efficient speakers. I got them because they were three-way and the VOT's were only two-way. (Altec Voice Of the Theater) Gauss was a brand of woofer. They could handle a LOT of power, comparable to other brands at the time. Didn't mean they were necessarily better. But, hey, bigger is better, right? Free air resonance can be used to match drivers. Since my buddy wanted to upgrade his home S-9's and I wanted to upgrade mine, I ordered six woofers. He took the two that had the lowest free air resonance, and were closest in frequency. Mine were for PA work, so it was not as critical. See http://www.installer.com/tech/fstest.html to see how that is done. It's pretty simple. He also used aquarium filter Fiberglas to load the compression chambers. I never did. I figured that nobody would ever hear the difference. YMMV represents Your Mileage May Vary. [au] Now that you have all the answers, be sure to keep us abreast of your La Scala project. I'm sure it will be swell. Hell, with a little Physics, a couple of pictures, and some well-founded opinions, you can pert-near build anything. And if you use a DriveRack and separate amps, you won't even need to design and build crossovers. See http://www.driverack.com [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajsons Posted May 21, 2006 Share Posted May 21, 2006 Bill, The S-8 is the deluxe factory built version of the S-9. Thanks for the info you provided. I won mine on ebay. The seller parted the S-8, I won the enclosure. Here's a thread about it . I would like to know more about your mods. Also, try www.hifilit.com http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/1/657137/ShowThread.aspx Dakayus, The S-8 and S-9 are huge speakers. You can build them but you're going to need extra large bookshelves (LOL!). They are single path horns, though, unlike the Klipsches. There are some forum members who had built La Scalas and Belles. Maybe the'll chime in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest " " Posted May 21, 2006 Share Posted May 21, 2006 6.5 inch woofer would probally get drowned by a mid and tweeter horn. if you are going to horn load the 6.5 woofer...cab size will grow quite a bit. total cost is a factor as well...don't rule out a good set of used speakers. I would start by looking at the sites mentioned in previous replies and finding a design for a pair that fits your room placement considerations, and usage expectations...then follow the model for the parts used in that design. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Cain Posted May 22, 2006 Share Posted May 22, 2006 Bill, The S-8 is the deluxe factory built version of the S-9. Thanks for the info you provided. I won mine on ebay. The seller parted the S-8, I won the enclosure. Here's a thread about it . I would like to know more about your mods. Also, try www.hifilit.com http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/1/657137/ShowThread.aspx The thread you referrenced was excellent. It has the benefit of 30 years of hindsight and lots of experience. My "mods" never seemed to make a great difference to me. I think the designers got it right, the first time. High-powered woofers, radial horns and different tweeters never seemed to make any significant improvement. But that was in PA applications. For the home version, aquarium filter fiberglas was added to the compression chamber, which might be of some help with certain woofers, to adjust for Fs. Other than that, I'd stick with stock. Of course, there will always be lots of folks who enjoy tinkering. I think every one goes through that phase. I did 35 years ago. While I may add auxilliary subs and tweets to my La Scala's, I won't be playing with the crossovers or drivers. The basic speaker is great. I'm just adding some lipstick. If I were to design my own full-range system, from scratch, I think a folded plywood horn would be the foundation. I'd like to see what might be designed, today, with an 18" or larger driver. I once used a Levan Horn, which was about 4' x 4' x 8'. It was VERY efficient, but not very portable. So everything is ultimately a trade-off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest " " Posted May 22, 2006 Share Posted May 22, 2006 there are a pair of university classics on ebay right now...if you want to take a peek. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Cain Posted May 22, 2006 Share Posted May 22, 2006 there are a pair of university classics on ebay right now...if you want to take a peek. Thanks for the tip. I haven't seen any there, before. Of course, I wasn't looking. I remember having a different tweeter than shown, yet it does look familiar. It was a much larger horn and had a phase plug. For some reason, I thought THAT was the HF-206, but now I wonder. After 30 years the memory gets cloudy. Maybe it was an upgrade I did when I loaded my four new cabinets? I see that horn in other University cabinets, for sale, but it seems as if it's used as a mid. Boy, am I confused. I guess I'll have to call my buddy who has the S-9's in his living room. Maybe HE can straighten out my memory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajsons Posted May 22, 2006 Share Posted May 22, 2006 The seller has been trying to sell those for over a year now. Here's a picture of one of those Classics, dated 5-17-2005. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajsons Posted May 22, 2006 Share Posted May 22, 2006 here's an HF-206. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest " " Posted May 22, 2006 Share Posted May 22, 2006 I have 2 of the HF-206's. one is new in a box that I opened. the other is in an open box, not sure if new. both check out ok on the meter...been meaning to connect them and hear them play someday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajsons Posted May 22, 2006 Share Posted May 22, 2006 what's the approximate costs to make a la scala? Oh yeah would you guys recommend using actual wood sheets or mdf and veneer it? Here's Tom Mobley's thread on building his Belle. Maybe this will give you an idea as to the simplicity of construction. Cost? That will depend on what components/mods you want to use. http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/thread/418466.aspx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajsons Posted May 22, 2006 Share Posted May 22, 2006 I have 2 of the HF-206's. one is new in a box that I opened. the other is in an open box, not sure if new. both check out ok on the meter...been meaning to connect them and hear them play someday. If you decide to sell them someday, let me know. I have all the as-built components for the Classic, except the tweeters. Armando Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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