kramskoi Posted September 1, 2006 Share Posted September 1, 2006 my Klipsch theater solution is slowly evolving into something to be proud of. I'm now using the Synergy 6-1/2" sb-2's for mains "and" surrounds...moving the 5-1/4" sb-1's to the presence channels on the Yamaha...maybe i'll upgrade to the Klipsch reference series later.[] The big fish in the fryer, of late, has been a 2x15" critical-Q subwoofer based on the new TC-3000 drivers from TC Sounds. The previous sub, based on the Tumult 15d2 from Adire Audio, lasted all of three days.[] The latest design is a reference level/overkill approach...opposite firing...it's all about "headroom" and the consequent low distortion it offers. With a Q=.5, sloppiness will be kept in check and resonance excitation minimized...a definite concern, given the smaller room size (1800 cu. ft.) and layout peculiarities. The sub was inserted two days ago and testing/calibration is underway. Even with an ep2500 for the power in a 2 ohm load, the sub is surely amp limited...it probably needs one per channel, given the coil geometry of the drivers. Consequently, i'll be researching a more powerful amplifier, perhaps from the Qsc line... SUB NOTES: 5.4 cu. ft. internal (22.5x24x29.5) ~200 lbs. (110 lbs/ cabinet, 90 lbs/ drivers -TC-3000 15") 1.5" walls, 2.25" baffles, (7) .75" braces (1" foam lining) behringer FBQ2496 for sub EQ behringer ECM8000 mic (calibrated) w/Rolls mp13 (phantom power) Performance (so far, with EQ and NO clipping): Master and Commander (ch4): 113 dB @ 3.5 meters (30 Hz barrage after "silence on deck") (118 dB without EQ) Star Wars II "first fly-by": 114 dB @ 3.5 meters (30-50 Hz range) (119 dB without EQ) 18Hz sine wave (REQwizard): 112 dB @ 3.5 - 6 meters (10% 3rd HD) Black Hawk Down "F....Irene": 111 dB @ 3.5 meters (5-20-30 Hz signal) Once i find the limits of "the amplifier", i'll proceed from there... pictures... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkside Posted September 2, 2006 Share Posted September 2, 2006 Very nice! Looks very well made and must be awesome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay481985 Posted September 2, 2006 Share Posted September 2, 2006 Very nice.... I think I will do two TC LMS 5400 in the near same parameters with a Crown Xti 4000. I have been in the works to get LMS 5400 production #1 and #2! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gigbyt Posted September 2, 2006 Share Posted September 2, 2006 How much power can these drivers take? i have a crown k2 and am interested in copying your design. would the k2 have enough power or would i need another k2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkside Posted September 2, 2006 Share Posted September 2, 2006 Jay, how much money do you have to spend on speakers? Aren't you in college??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kramskoi Posted September 2, 2006 Author Share Posted September 2, 2006 How much power can these drivers take? i have a crown k2 and am interested in copying your design. would the k2 have enough power or would i need another k2. better make it one K2 per channel...peak for these drivers is 2.5kW and 1kW continuous...lots of coil in the gap...adding the second driver, i've halved the excursion but, wired for 1.4 ohms, i can clip the ep2500 with ease...the SWII "first fly-by is recorded so hot that i can't get past -10 MV without clipping...and the output is 118 dB @ 3.5 meters with EQ...The ep2500 has gone about it's duty even though it's running a shade less than 2 ohms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay481985 Posted September 3, 2006 Share Posted September 3, 2006 kramskoi, did you stuff the enclosure also? And darkside, I worked for a bit and have some money left over. Heck I have my tax return from last year so I am happy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kramskoi Posted September 3, 2006 Author Share Posted September 3, 2006 stuffing? we don't need no stink'in stuffing...lol[] Seriously, the sub was lined with 1" foam (from Walmart) between all the braces (tedious job btw) and that's it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay481985 Posted September 3, 2006 Share Posted September 3, 2006 well stuffing acts like the box is bigger then it really is making a lower qtc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted September 3, 2006 Share Posted September 3, 2006 Dang, that's some crazy performance...how much EQ are you implementing on the BFD? I'd love to see some raw response measurements. As far as the K2....that is one amazing amplifier. I wouldn't be surprised if you found it to be enough for your tastes. You can definetly overdrive them (within reason) without the sound going to crap too fast. Another amp to consider would be the XTi4000 - which will have some onboard processing and 1200W per channel into 4ohms (400W more than the K2). And though these drivers are capable of handling so much more power, I would seriously question their distortion levels when you start cranking them. Distortions from the spider and surrounds, chuffing from the insane driver speed, and power compression just to name a few. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kramskoi Posted September 3, 2006 Author Share Posted September 3, 2006 Dang, that's some crazy performance...how much EQ are you implementing on the BFD? I'd love to see some raw response measurements. As far as the K2....that is one amazing amplifier. I wouldn't be surprised if you found it to be enough for your tastes. You can definetly overdrive them (within reason) without the sound going to crap too fast. Another amp to consider would be the XTi4000 - which will have some onboard processing and 1200W per channel into 4ohms (400W more than the K2). And though these drivers are capable of handling so much more power, I would seriously question their distortion levels when you start cranking them. Distortions from the spider and surrounds, chuffing from the insane driver speed, and power compression just to name a few. with the fbq2496, i'm using two shelving filters, among others: 1) 20 Hz (Q=.182/ + 6.5 dB) 5 octaves 2) 130 Hz (Q=.182/ - 7.5 dB) 5 octaves This models +/- 3dB from 20-130 Hz (1/2 space, 1 meter) and gives an 8dB/octave roll off (.5Q) ...the box Q=.518 so i'm sure i'm right at .5 with the 1" foam added to the enclosure. In-room, it's linear to < 10 Hz The ep2500 is no slouch btw...i have the quad voice coil wired for 1.4 ohms DCR...so the amp is seeing a little less than 2 ohms in operation...no problems so far...i was able to push the SWII "first fly-by" to 118 dB @ 3.5 meters...it starts clipping at 119 dB...quite thunderous 30-50 Hz range!...and if i switch out the BFD, it adds 4-5 dB to that...i'm guessing the rat shack would be useless at 1 meter or less...i'll check this out... I had a single tc3k powered with the ep1500 (bridged 4 ohms) and it would clip on the same scene at 114 dB...so i've increased headroom and halved excursion, though this application is still amp limited with 1200w/channel...the drivers just want more, though there is only about 3 dB left to find with a second ep2500...i guess 121 dB at the seats...at this level of output, it's hard to justify...i probably prefer to keep the reduced excursion/distortion and call it a day *wink...the dual will chew on a single ep2500 all day long...and safe with no high pass filter On Master and Commander, i'm still trying to find the limit of output for the 30 Hz barrage...113 dB is not the limit, just a quickie. I did find an air leak around one of the connectors...it was with a 10 Hz sine wave @ 110 dB...so once i've sealed it, i'll take some new readings Mechanically, the TC-3000 is pretty quiet at speed, with the high roll surround, and now i won't need to drive as hard using two...I have'nt noticed any power compression, rather, i have'nt noticed sub spl lagging behind the MV with program material, the amp goes into clipping first...a very good sound signature with this subwoofer, as it is .5 Q...it absolutely will not boom...i'll be sure to post more data as i experiment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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