Whyers Posted October 12, 2006 Share Posted October 12, 2006 I just picked up an RSW-10 on ebay ($400, 8 mos. old in great shape!) and I've never used a sub. I'm pairing it with a nice set of Lascala's (89's, AL-3 crossovers). In researching here on the board, it looks like I probably need to get a new amp with sub-out and/or a pre-amp but I'm also looking at tube amps given the Lascala's... Would the right fit perhaps be to find a tube amp/pre-amp with sub out? Any suggestions? It's an all music application in a space about 30' x 20'. I sure appreciate your help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyKlipschFan Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 Obviously, if you have a good pre amp with a sub out your 3/4 of the way there.. x it over at about 60 - 80 htz where it feels good to you as well .. Then bring it up till it is in the mix...not boomy... and you may find yourself in audio nirvana. Using it for HT is another issue all together. Look for threads on radio shack meeters and I would not go tubes at all. (Besides $$ issues for 7.1 sound too. ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest " " Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 "tube amp/pre-amp with sub out?" If you find one, would be intrested in an update. Sub-woofers were not very popular during the tube-era due to the inability of LP's to extend down into the lower octaves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mas Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 As previously mentioned, the only preamp/receivers with a low pass 'subwoofer output' are the new multichannel x.1 receivers. I fear you are looking for that which is not available. You are welcome to try it, but given the choice, I would use SS amplification for the subwoofer/bass frequencies. If you are using a traditional mono or stereo preamp and amplifier you are going to need either a sub with a built in crossover (which you mention that your sub lacks...) or a separate crossover to split the bandpass of the preamp out into LF(lowpass) and MF-HF (highpass). In this case, the crossover will split the left and right channels into LF(lowpass) & MF-HF(highpass), with the Left lowpass & the Right lowpass going from the crossover to the sub's L&R inputs, and the Left and Right high pass going from the crossover to the amplifier's L & R inputs. An advantage of using a discrete 2-channel stereo amplifier and a 2-channel crossover is that you have discrete lowpass signals. And while some may THINK that they cannot localize a low Q signal (especially if they are used to the summed LFE output of a multichannel receiver), any material where the bass has been panned in the mix WILL be able to be localized as such IF you are using 2 spaced subwoofers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whyers Posted October 13, 2006 Author Share Posted October 13, 2006 Looks like I have some homework... I'll let you know if I find any quality tube amps/pre-amps with sub out. The 2-channel separate crossover is probably the solution, great explanation Mas. I've seen some wiring diagrams for the crossover so I think this is doable... no home theatre application, just really great music room, complete with drum kit :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whyers Posted October 14, 2006 Author Share Posted October 14, 2006 OK, looks like Jolida makes a really nice line of integrated (tube pre-amp, solid state amp) with a sub-out option. Really great reviews and the price isn't over the top, probably around $420. Puts out 100W per channel (and they had some jargin about 1 tube watt = 3 or 4 solid state watts...) ;-p Still looking around... any one have a Jolida or even this model? If so, how's the performance? I've read that changing out the stock tubes for Ei 12AX7 is a good idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mas Posted October 14, 2006 Share Posted October 14, 2006 Interesting! Its about time someone acknowledged the 2 channel market! Is the low pass output frequency selectable? Is it an LFE single channel or 2-channel stereo out? I guess I should look it up on the web instead of asking silly questions! Oh, and regarding the wattage statement - that simply means that a tube can output a much higher distortion signal than a transitor before it reaches saturation. So that tube 1 watt is equal to several watts of a HIGHLY distorted SS 'square wave' signal- conversely, that tube watt is incredibly distorted! And in the personal feelings department:[] And I don't care if it is 'tube distortion' (and no, it is not only even harmonic distortion!!!!), I still prefer a CLEAN signal operated in its linear range with either type of device, be it tube or SS, for accurate sound reproduction! If I want an effects generator I will buy a SansAmp or a fuss peddle! [] IMO, their comparison 'ain't apples and apples'. Tubes are great (and they are a personal favorite), albeit with the often expensive maintenance. (I know!! I am looking at replacing 2 matched quartets of KT66's - any one have experience with the Valve Art KT66 tubes??? (or in a pinch 6L6s) - OUCH!!!! ) But, in any event, let's compare clean output power to clean output power! In a multi way bi/tri amped system, I would still prefer SS for the LF and then tube for the mids and highs (but I am completely comfortable with a high quality SS compliment all around). Tubes just don't provide the tight bass response that a high quality SS amp does. (Don't bother arguing - I can't be swayed!!! [] ...Too many years dealing with SR and the big Crown & QSC SS amps and Threshold and PassLab amps in studio and home environments dealing with absurd bass boxes & loads.(...and that is not to mention the SS dogs scattered amongst the scenery too! I mean, how many here aside from perhaps Duke or Colter have actually seen one of Bob Carver's 'Flame Linears' go up in smoke and flames or have modified their power supplies to prevent this!!?) (But please don't get me wrong, I would absolutely love it if someone wants to provide an additional NICE high output tube unit for me to play with on an extended basis! My Audio Research units do get lonely...and those NOSValve units do sound mighty tempting![]) Have I missed stepping on anyone's toes??? [] I would hate to leave anyone out!![] [] [] OK, OK, you can put away the cattle prod.....just tryin' to have a little fun....I'll go back to my room now... [][:$] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whyers Posted October 14, 2006 Author Share Posted October 14, 2006 OK, this is the ticket I believe... let me know your thoughts, I've already contracted for the purchase so if I'm making a huge mistake, please let me know... http://cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cl.pl?intatube&1165703721 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mas Posted October 14, 2006 Share Posted October 14, 2006 OK, playing devil's advocate...looking at the back, I see inputs for: AUX, Tuner, Video, CD, Tape1 Play & Record, Tape2 Play & Record and then a R & L speaker output and Ground. So unless that male AC receptacle can double as a SUB out, am I missing something? Are you sure there is supposed to be a separate sub out? Or have I misunderstood you? Otherwise, it looks to be a nice unit. I would love to hear one! I would make sure that there is a discrete Lowpass out, and I would also be curious at what frequency the internal crossover is set... Of course there is always the possibility that I am mistaken![] Take a look... http://www.jolida.com/catalogue/models/jd1501rc.shtml Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whyers Posted October 14, 2006 Author Share Posted October 14, 2006 In looking at the photo above (which is the actual unit), I'm seeing what looks like another set of outputs that say, I think, bass and ???.... in between the RL speaker outputs (right) and all the inputs (left).... waiting to hear back from the guy It definately is not the same as the stock photo which I originally had thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Posted October 14, 2006 Share Posted October 14, 2006 I just picked up an RSW-10 on ebay ($400, 8 mos. old in great shape!) and I've never used a sub. I'm pairing it with a nice set of Lascala's (89's, AL-3 crossovers). In researching here on the board, it looks like I probably need to get a new amp with sub-out and/or a pre-amp but I'm also looking at tube amps given the Lascala's... Would the right fit perhaps be to find a tube amp/pre-amp with sub out? Any suggestions? It's an all music application in a space about 30' x 20'. I sure appreciate your help. im just curious ,But how did you get it setup to sound good with your lascalas,Or do you even know its there..[] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Spinner Posted October 15, 2006 Share Posted October 15, 2006 Duke or Colter have actually seen one of Bob Carver's 'Flame Linears' go up in smoke and flames Aaaaahh...... Still using one..... nice sweet spot about 1/3 power is the key Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whyers Posted October 15, 2006 Author Share Posted October 15, 2006 [im just curious ,But how did you get it setup to sound good with your lascalas,Or do you even know its there..[] I haven't received the sub yet, being sent Monday. Please understand, this is in a work-space (day), listening room/drum room (night) application. During the day, the volume has to stay down and I'm not driving the LaScala's hard enough to produce any real bass, even with an EQ set to push the low's. So, it's hopefully going to help with the lower volume in that I can really address the lows separately and there will be more of them. I'll probably need two pre-sets, one for low vol, and one for high. In addition, the Jolida has a SS amp and will likely continue produce quick, condensed, bright mid's and hi's with the amazing horns and tweaters these LS's have. When I listen without others in the room, I listen very loud and I want every bit of frequency I can get... LS only get down to around 50hz, this sub drops that to 30 or so, allowing me to more effectively balance the boomy, mid-lows I get with the LS and push the lower bottom end from the sub with a crossover applied. I hope that makes sense. I'm really just following the best advice I've seen on the boards over and over... go with your ears... and I'm really just getting started... besides, at the price I paid for the sub, if things don't work out, I'll sell it and make $100 or so... With the new tube pre-amp, I'm hoping to gain a little warmth in the mid's and hi's as well. Hope that answers your questions. I've seen where folks say if you have the LS set up correctly, you don't need a sub; and that's great for their ears. Me, I'd rather have a Dave Weckl bass drum knock me off my chair than give me a gently massage.... and many of the artists I listen to are using 6 sting bass guitars and frigin' multiple percussion with oversized concert bass drums or tyco drums (huge Japanese behemoths)... they get DEEP... I think the sub will work out just fine... can't wait. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Spinner Posted October 15, 2006 Share Posted October 15, 2006 I have been using a single scoop for re-inforcement with my 'Scala's .... they Do need it ..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted October 15, 2006 Share Posted October 15, 2006 Duke or Colter have actually seen one of Bob Carver's 'Flame Linears' go up in smoke and flames Aaaaahh...... Still using one..... nice sweet spot about 1/3 power is the key Actually never had one of those cube amps (is this what MAS is referring to- the magnetic jobbies?) Used to use Carver rack amps for PA, nice and lightweight but MAN would they get HOT. Finally moved to Crown. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Spinner Posted October 15, 2006 Share Posted October 15, 2006 . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted October 15, 2006 Share Posted October 15, 2006 mmm Phase Linear- clean and ballsy! Good stuff Duke Did you see I got my HIP's? M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mas Posted October 15, 2006 Share Posted October 15, 2006 ...Never really had a chance to play with one of his magnetic field amps (the cubes).. What I was referring to were the older Phase (Flame) Linear 700Bs - not a bad amp for 350W perchannel hi-fi use especially if you didn't mind hot running loud humming transformers & BJT output configurations, but they definately had a 'few problems' when used for sound reinforcement. But 'back in the day' the reliable power houses were either the delightfully large and ridiculously heavy MacIntosh amps or the bulletproof Crown DC300 series Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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