Re-thinking SET

[sfogg]

Erik,

"but it's possible someone might like a vented design more than one that's sealed."

Of course. Vented subs have their positives too.

But for a guy that has held subs in poor regard (PaulN) I think a good sealed sub is a safer suggestion for music. For example some of the SVS subs don't make it up to 80 or 100hz very well. That will make integration with a Las harder. For a K'Horn that gets down deeper then a Las that rolloff of some of the SVS subs is not an issue.

"If you have a chance to try both, that would be ideal, but subs don't really lend themselves to more size-convenient auditions like electronics."

True, but with many of the factory direct companies (such as SVS and ACI among others) it is possible to audition then at home. Which with subwoofers is really the way to do it since the room has so much of an impact on their performance.

Shawn

[Erik Mandaville]

Shawn:

"For example some of the SVS subs don't make it up to 80 or 100hz very well. That will make integration with a Las harder." That's what I was thinking, too. Even though the Klipschorns might be better in that respect (for use with a sub), there are times I wonder what a good sealed design might be like. I've liked sealed inclosures in the past for their generally tighter and sort of clean bass response (I know those descriptions are hard to pin down sometimes....).

"with many of the factory direct companies (such as SVS and ACI among others) it is possible to audition then at home. Which with subwoofers is really the way to do it since the room has so much of an impact on their performance."

Sure, that's a good point. I was just trying to imagine having a pair to be able to A/B back and forth for a more direct comparison, but something like that would still be possible with companies you mentioned. People at both SVS and ACI have always been really friendly and helpful.

I still wonder about what the La Scalas would have been like with a pair of Oris horns and the Lowthers. That's why I first got them, but liked the sound so much I left them stock -- until one day I woke up and decided to sell them so I could purchase the Klipschorns. I still really like La Scalas, despite the fact that they don't have quite the low end response of the K-horns. They suited my listening height better; I sometimes feel like the Klipschorns are firing over the top of my head, because things seem to pull into sharper focus during the stand up part of the famous stand-up/sit-down test.

Erik

[maxg]

Good sealed design capable of hitting 100 Hz when required with ease is the REL Strata series. 10 inch woofer - nice and quick - perfect match for Heresies but I have never tried it with horn loaded bass.

I have heard them with Lothers (a pair of them actually) and it really was a seemless integration to my ears.

[kev313]

I used to like the bi-amping. Now, not so much. One of the problems all along is finding two amps with similar tone. And, assuming one of them is going to be "bigger" amp like an SS amp, and one is small like an SET amp, that can be a real challenge. Most of what is coming out of the "woofer" section of a La Scala isn't bass, but rather lower midrange. Remember, that thing is putting out a lot of output right into the 1KHz region. Crossing over at 500 or so Hz is really almost smack dab in the middle of the vocal ranges. So, you have for example, a SET amp doing the vocal and a big SS amp overlapping it for a significant part of that range. Putting aside all the FR and SPL charts and issues, this disconnect in tone balance (voicing to some) can be really bothersome for some people. It got that way for me. It's very simlar to what happens adding sub-woofers to systems - loss of "character" occurs, things sound more dramatic and yet less real, if that's possible. More dramatic meaning the "sounds" have more impact, maybe even more dynamics, but the overall tone of the music sounds more like a collection of speakers spitting out various sounds that your brain attempts to reassemble as a cohesive experience. Just another perspective.

That's a really good point, Mark. In my case I am crossing at either 160 or 180Hz on the Oris system. That eliminates at least the problem of crossing over in the vocal range and, largely, issues of tonal balance.

[maxg]

Dont know that unit Mark so I cannot comment on it. Does it have settings for X-over and volume? Might be a case of adjustment - or moving it - possibly out of the door.

The Strata never thunked - but it never cost $450 either - even used to the best of my knowledge.....

[sfogg]

Mark,

Room placement has a large effect on a subwoofers performance. Spend time trying numerous locations if you can.

Have you tried the inverse trick? Put the subwoofer in your listening position and play music. Walk/crawl around the room with your head at the same level as where the sub would be. When you find a position where the bass sounds best move the subwoofer to that location and then see how the bass sounds at the listening position. This trick doesn't always work but sometimes can be useful.

The other thing to try... move the subwoofer outdoors. If it is still thunking it is something in the sub itself. If that tone goes away it is some form of room interaction. At that price I doubt it has it but if it has parametric EQ built in that can be helpful in taming some room boom.

Shawn