Re-thinking SET

[Erik Mandaville]

Craig:

"I'm not going to comment about the SET stuff."

There isn't anything wrong with commenting about SET, PP, solid state, rectifiers -- ANYTHING. What isn't good is telling people they are wrong because they happen to prefer something over something else. Same is true for cap and resistor brands; all of it.

Comment away unless it involves harmful criticism or personal attacks. Otherwise, maybe it IS best to just hold one's tongue and leave it alone.

Erik

[Cody_Mack]

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I know that folks tend to affiliate into different camps as far as amps go, and I have been a big SET fanatic for the last five years, but this SS Nikko is freaking me out a bit. It really does sound great; good enough that I could live with it as my only amp.

This is just the first step, Paul. How about a nice CD player and some new CDs? Contrary to your previous takes, there are tons of great music recorded after the 1980s and digital audio is sooooo much better than that we first experienced in the early 80s. Enjoy the music!

Rick

[NOSValves]

Craig:

"I'm not going to comment about the SET stuff."

There isn't anything wrong with commenting about SET, PP, solid state, rectifiers -- ANYTHING. What isn't good is telling people they are wrong because they happen to prefer something over something else. Same is true for cap and resistor brands; all of it.

Comment away unless it involves harmful criticism or personal attacks. Otherwise, maybe it IS best to just hold one's tongue and leave it alone.

Erik

Why thanks for the permission Erik [] I think my opinion on all things SET are pretty well known around here and they haven't changed a bit after hearing countless numbers of them from a basic Bottlehead kit to higher powered SET amps costing over 10K now.

Just to make it clear. I think top quality SET amps sound darn good with certain types of music and to many people. For me they just are way to limiting. I listen too many different types of music and varying SLP levels so SET just can not cut it for me. If someone else likes it that just fine.

99.9% of the SET versus _ _ _ _ _ problems I have had with other members here has always been when they start professing it does things it can't possibly do. I think I often get blaimed for a certain other persons posts just because we happen to be freinds. I don;t recall ever spouting the 20W minimum line. Heck many of the amps I rebuild and love make less power the 20 watts. I've just never found a 1, 2 or 3 watt amps that floated my boat including the mighty Moondogs which I have heard.

Craig

[Erik Mandaville]

Craig:

"I think I often get blaimed for a certain other persons posts just because we happen to be freinds. I don;t recall ever spouting the 20W minimum line. "

I wasn't blaming you for anything, and I didn't say you spouted, erupted, gushed or otherwise expressed anything about the famous 20W minimum. I was simply referring to your not wishing to comment on SET, and was merely offering an opinion about what (in my opinion, of course) is appropriate and what is less so.

Gotta get the fajitas marinated and grill going! It's an amazingly beautiful day here in Houston!

Have a good rest of Sunday,

Erik

[oldbuckster]

I Miss Parrot................this thread is made for him...............

[sfogg]

"La Scala veterans, how do you achive the best bass from your system?"

Subwoofers. Doesn't matter what amp you put on them, they are still going to roll off too early for some people.

A good pair of subs crossed at say 70 or 80hz to the LaScala's would really free up some extra power for most SETs. With the SE OTL I had about 5dB more output (peaks in the high 90s) when the Las were crossed over compared to run full range.

Shawn

[jacksonbart]

Its so sunny here, I don't believe in sunglasses so I brought a sombrero.

[oldbuckster]

Its so sunny here, I don't believe in sunglasses so I brought a sombrero.

How does it stay on in the Vette ?

[Coytee]

La Scala veterans, how do you achive the best bass from your system?

I just turn mine up louder

[]

[jt1stcav]

Gotta get the fajitas marinated and grill going! It's an amazingly beautiful day here in Houston!

Have a good rest of Sunday,

Erik

Wish I could say the same here. The storm that's affecting the entire eastern seaboard is still whipping up bands of heavy rain, lightning, and wind one minute, then it clears up for awhile, and then gets dark and windy again. The rain has stopped and there's a break in the clouds and the sun's shining, but now we have major wind gusts! At least it's not as humid as it was yesterday.

Erik, save a fajita for me, will ya?

[mike stehr]

If you want more more bass, you need a bigger output transformer.

[jacksonbart]

Its so sunny here, I don't believe in sunglasses so I brought a sombrero.

How does it stay on in the Vette ?

If I go real slow it works ok, but once my speed increases the distortion from the air cause it to fly off. I think I might try a modern SS amp, I mean I will switch to sunglasses.

[oldbuckster]

Jackson...................Your still DA' Man.......Snowing since 4:00 am...........No Porsche this week...........Damn........

[pauln]

Thanks for all the comments and ideas.

I think Rick hit right on it when he quoted my comments during the SET/LaScala listening sessions - that I thought they "played all the bass I would ever want to hear". I think my real revelation is that the La Scalas have more clean clear and available low end capability than I thought, and that I like hearing it. Maybe since the general consensus is that the LS are bass shy I was listening to the SETs and assuming that the lighter bass was from the LS and not so much from the SETs.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

In spite of the combined limitations of the SET/LS, it does provide some of what should be there in the low end, and does it very well. Not being a real bass hound, and with the help of corner placement I have been satisfied for years. The big surprise is discovering that the LS actually have considerably more potential to offer in the low end and I am just finding out about it. [:$] And in spite of the idea that the LS are relatively bass shy, after playing the little Nikko amp I am sort of at the point now of thinking, "Now THIS is all the bass one would want to hear... or is it?". So by extension I need to further investigate to see just how much low end I would like that I have not heard yet.

I really appreciate all those who were quick to caution no fast moves. I tried bi-amping a while back one evening when I had the Teac chip amp for a while (SETs on top) and I agree that the matching of the different amp voices was off. There was more bass but the mismatch may have prevented or distracted me from really noticing the additional low end capabilities of the La Scalas at that time.

I have always been diehard hardheaded against using a sub, but that may be about to change if I can hear one that integrates well with the La Scalas. God bless the little Nikko; it may have served as a catalyst (as well as Rick's observations) to get me to improve my SET/LS system with a sub...

Having been anti-sub I'm pretty clueless but would like to hear anyone's experience with them and recommendations - particularly in a SET/LS system, and especially anyone using a sub with their Wright SETs and La Scalas. My Wright preamp has two sets of outputs... but don't some subs drive from the speaker terminals? Now I'm going to have to learn all about subs.

Pauln

[Duke Spinner]

Aaaaaaahhhhhh ...

the Parrot is laughing ......

took you a long time, and a lotta argument's to get .. Here, ....PaulN [*-)]

[filmboydoug]

No surprise to me you liked the Nikko more than the Pioneer. Nikko's for the most part had excellent phono sections. And while I can't say for sure on this particular model, it might be one of the Nikko models that were transformer coupled.

Now recap the Nikko and see how you like it. []

[kev313]

Aaaaaaahhhhhh ...

the Parrot is laughing ......

took you a long time, and a lotta argument's to get .. Here, ....PaulN [*-)]

Well...at least we can't hear him (no matter how many watts he is).

[sfogg]

"I have always been diehard hardheaded against using a sub, but that may be about to change if I can hear one that integrates well with the La Scalas."

Check out the ACI Titan or Force subs. ACI subs are very musical and I ran a pair of original Titan's with LaScalas and they mate well. Stick with sealed designs (ported guys will disagree) for best integration with the Las.

If you want to go the DIY route there are some very nice setups that are easy to build and sound good.

"My Wright preamp has two sets of outputs... but don't some subs drive from the speaker terminals? Now I'm going to have to learn all about subs."

Two outputs can be useful. With the ACIs you could use a pair of their passive high pass filters to your L/R amp and the other output to the sub itself. Yes, some subs can run off the speaker terminals and there are adapters to let you do that with any subwoofer. But if your amp is bass shy why would you want to run a subwoofer from that? Doing that also removes the benefit of high passing something like a SET and making its life easier by removing the deepest bass from it.

Shawn

[Mallette]

"And in spite of the idea that the LS are relatively bass shy, after playing the little Nikko amp I am sort of at the point now of thinking, "Now THIS is all the bass one would want to hear... or is it?". So by extension I need to further investigate to see just how much low end I would like that I have not heard yet."

Paul: My favorite bass test piece is the Franck "Chorale in A Minor." The recording made by Michael Murry at St. John the Divine is especially excellent in spacial, artistic, and technical areas and the big Skinner string stops bring tears to my eyes. Point is that the hallmark of the piece is the very quiet 32' tones about 2/3 of the way through that do not present themselves as an earthquake, but with real, tangible tonality. Properly reproduced you can hear transparently right through to the windchests. In spite of the fact these are at piano (dynamic term, not the instrument) levels, I do not think SET would be able to provide the degree of effortless power required to produce this transparency. ANY degree of strain absolutely destroys the experience.

Of course, their are also parts of the piece that require the reactor rods be pulled out 100%, but those levels aren't about finesse anymore than a nuclear airburst is about color temperature.

Dave

[Erik Mandaville]

"...Stick with sealed designs (ported guys will disagree) for best integration with the Las."

Dunno, Shawn. There's a big hole in one side of our SVS, and I'm inclined to think you are right. I don't disagree, but it's possible someone might like a vented design more than one that's sealed.

If you have a chance to try both, that would be ideal, but subs don't really lend themselves to more size-convenient auditions like electronics.

Erik