srphelps Posted July 7, 2007 Share Posted July 7, 2007 does anyone know if the synergy sub -12 has a paper or plastic woofer in it and if it is paper does that make it not a very good sub?? thanx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted July 7, 2007 Share Posted July 7, 2007 I'm pretty sure it's paper, which happens to be one of the easiest materials to work with, not to mention extremely effective at its job. Though there are certainly more important things to be worrying about than the type of material being used for the diaphragm. Are you considering the purchase of a Sub12? I know it's the Klipsch forum, but I honestly feel the Sub12 is by far one of the best bangs for the buck on the market right now. If you spend a bit more, I think you might wanna steer in a few other directions before coming back to the Klipsch lineup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srphelps Posted July 7, 2007 Author Share Posted July 7, 2007 yes i want that sub to finish my system. me i worry about everything. electronics are very pricey in my world so i try to get it right the first time.thanx for your input DrWho Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted July 7, 2007 Share Posted July 7, 2007 I just noticed your sig... So are you going to stop at 5.1? Or do you plan to fledge out to 7.1 in the future? I think the Sub-12 will be a perfect match to your setup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srphelps Posted July 7, 2007 Author Share Posted July 7, 2007 5.1 sounds awsome to me plus i don't think i have room for 7.1 or what ever else there may be.and if i may be so bold. I read stuff on this forum every day and i think there are some smart people in here. but i have read on this sight about BOSE still using paper drivers and how far behind the times they are.so thats why it kinda cought me by suprise so i thought i would ask and see what happens.sometime 2+2 don't seem to equal 4 LOL thanx DrWHO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Professor.Ham.Slap Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 Well, yes, Bose does use inferior products for the price they charge. However the products are not inferior because they're using paper woofers in their system. It more comes down to the way it's done. For example, the motor structure in the cubes is alright for mid-range, but is complete crap for over 15khz so therefore no high end detail. The bass is also missing from the system due to the use of 5.25" drivers for a subwoofer. My center channel has 4 6.5" drivers. Figure that out. And correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the driver material on the Krell Master Reference Subwoofer is paper as well, and that is the godfather of all subwoofers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted July 10, 2007 Share Posted July 10, 2007 Paper,yes it uses a paper cone.Paper cones inferior...not at all.Very light weight and rigid great for speaker cones. The main worry would come from the fact paper absorbs humidity and may lose its rigidity over time.This would be true in a very humid environement. Krell MRS being the godfather of all subs...far from it. It uses TC Sounds 15" drivers enclosed in a tiny cabinet and these drivers are not even at the same level the LMS-5400 is. The MRS may be the godfather of compact subs,and even here the JL Audio GOTHAM probably pits the MRS to the wall. [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cody1382 Posted July 10, 2007 Share Posted July 10, 2007 Whats the go with the down firing system i heard someone say that after awile the driver can sink down or something of that nature Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BobG Posted July 10, 2007 Share Posted July 10, 2007 The material is a fiber reinforced paper which is a great material. It has chemicals in its mix that make it resistant to absorbing moisture from the air. Because the driver is designed to be down-firing, any gravity induced "sag" is compensated for in the suspension of the cone. If you were to take a driver that was not intended as downfiring and use it that way, this might be a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cody1382 Posted July 10, 2007 Share Posted July 10, 2007 What are the pro's an cons of a down firing sub the sub12 is the onlyone ive had the chance to listen too do many other people make them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted July 10, 2007 Share Posted July 10, 2007 The only disadvantage to down-firing is that you have to deal with the extra force vector pulling the diaphragm down. Basically, the suspension needs to provide an equal and opposite force to cancel out the gravity. This is pretty straightforward when the woofer is at rest, but quickly becomes an issue once the cone starts moving a lot. Basically, the stiffness of the suspension changes as a function of cone-excursion. This is true for all subwoofers, but the trick with down-firing systems is to maintain that equal and opposite force through the suspension non-linearity. Long story short, down-firing systems tend towards more distortion. Worst case I think it's on the order of 6dB, but I could be mistaken. However, in a well-engineered design (like I'm sure Klipsch is capable of), these distortions can be kept at levels where other distortions are going to be more prevalent. I think one advantage to down-firing is that the sub is less likely to walk around. In systems like the Sub-12 where the overall system tends to be lighter (smaller magnets and smaller amps), I would imagine cabinet rocking could become an issue. But make the system fire down and the only direction the sub can move is up and down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 Very good explanation Dr Who. Lighter(weight) subs when downfiring will not move around and this in turn does not produce parasitic noises. The Sunfire/Velo and other tiny subs all suffer from noise created my the rubber feet sliding on the floor(at higher SPL). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 "Long story short, down-firing systems tend towards more distortion. Worst case I think it's on the order of 6dB, but I could be mistaken. However, in a well-engineered design (like I'm sure Klipsch is capable of), these distortions can be kept at levels where other distortions are going to be more prevalent." Doc, good explanation, but what is 6db of distortion? Isn't distortion normally expressed as a percentage? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Adams Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 The only disadvantage to down-firing is that you have to deal with the extra force vector pulling the diaphragm down. Basically, the suspension needs to provide an equal and opposite force to cancel out the gravity. This is pretty straightforward when the woofer is at rest, but quickly becomes an issue once the cone starts moving a lot. Basically, the stiffness of the suspension changes as a function of cone-excursion. This is true for all subwoofers, but the trick with down-firing systems is to maintain that equal and opposite force through the suspension non-linearity. Long story short, down-firing systems tend towards more distortion. Worst case I think it's on the order of 6dB, but I could be mistaken. However, in a well-engineered design (like I'm sure Klipsch is capable of), these distortions can be kept at levels where other distortions are going to be more prevalent. I think one advantage to down-firing is that the sub is less likely to walk around. In systems like the Sub-12 where the overall system tends to be lighter (smaller magnets and smaller amps), I would imagine cabinet rocking could become an issue. But make the system fire down and the only direction the sub can move is up and down. From personal experience that is NOT TRUE! When I had my Sub12 in my den system with the rubber pad thinggies on the sub's feet, I could get that sucker to "walk" quite easily. Granted, the floor in my den was tile, but not so smooth as to make the sub move easily. It would take some firm pushing pressure to move the sub across the floor. Yet play some bass heavy music or movie and there she'd go on a walk-a-bout. One minute I could see the sub just poking out past the end table and 5 minutes later - gone. Kinda freaked me out at first. LOL....... Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 Tom, Wanna race subs? I have my current champ the Sunfire D8,it may be tiny but it will beat your Sub12 in a race...across the room. [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sivadselim Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 Wanna race subs? I have my current champ the Sunfire D8,it may be tiny but it will beat your Sub12 in a race...across the room. []You've gotta give him a couple of "sub-lengths". [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted July 12, 2007 Share Posted July 12, 2007 My former champ(dancing across the floor) was the Sunfire Junior(sold)...it could dance...break dance and salsa on the floor! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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