Ctiger2

Stan, OK, gotcha. Have you ever heard the AR9's? They're much bigger size than the AR3's. They don't have the added ambiance coloration of the Khorns which I feel gives the Khorns an even larger sound, but they sound just as big if not bigger than them.They sound like huge AR3's with no boundaries. I've read about people getting them dirt cheap on the net. If you like the AR sound. I think these might be the pinnacle of AR. Roy Allison designed. Check out the pic below. From Left to right, AR3, AR9, AR4x, Tannoy Monitor Gold 15", Klipschorn.

Double Post, Server Crashed on me [H]

Hi Stan. Interesting observations. I know what you're getting at, but, if you are there, aren't they really here then? [*-)] My experience would be as follows: Klipsch speakers add a coloration which I affectionately refer to as ambiance to all playback. So, if you're listening to a studio recording the added ambiance makes it sound live. If you're listening to a live recording, the added ambiance make it sound live X 2. The AR's are more faithful to the recording. If it's a studio recording, it sounds like a studio recording. If it's live, it sounds live.

I apologize for slightly hijacking this thread. If I feel so inclined, I'll start a new thread at a later date. Enjoy that music!

I hear what you're saying... Now, have you ever listened to one of the sealed box design speaker brand like KEF, AR, KLH etc. type speakers right next to your Klipsch? The sealed box designs will sound Dull, closed in, some say boxed in, highs rolled off etc. But, as you listen to them over time you slowly realize the Klipsch are actually bright and the horn colorations become so obvious it's frankly kinda disturbing. The AR's are a very neutral (non-colored) sounding speaker. Everything played through the Klipsch will start to sound like it's coming out of a megaphone. That's the horn coloration and all the Klipsch I've owned have it. It must be the Klipsch sound. My first AR purchase back in Dec '07 was a pair of AR4x for $50. These are tiny bookshelf speakers. I put them side by side with the Khorns and cut them loose. At first they sounded dull & boxed in, just like I read they would. However, the bass was truly amazing for such a small speaker. In fact, I still really can't beleive the bass that comes out of these tiny tiny speakers. It's near Khorn bass and it makes no sense to me. I started playing with the volume on these little speakers and I could just keep turning them up up up and they just don't distort and they are never bright. The only real problem with the sealed box design is that you'll need gobs of good power to get them to their full potential. With my Klipsch I start turning them up up and next thing you know they become unbearable to listen to, literally shouting you out of the room, and you have no choice but to turn them down. It's really been a gut wrenching discovery for me over these last eight months or so. And, it's more or less been a slow unconcious realization as well. What I thought was good sound has been turned upside down and I think I've been in denial for quite a while now. I'm still on the fence debating whether or not to actually part with my beloved Khorns. It's internal strife at it's finest. [*-)] I think that's why I started browsing these forums again. Looking for something, answers, not sure. I don't think Klipsch are bad speakers at all. I've just come to the conclusion that they're best for Classical & Jazz at low to moderate low volumes. They sound quick, detailed & dynamic. I guess that's the whole fun of this hobby. New discoveries etc. Some good, some bad. I guess my main point is that Klipsch speakes are colored sounding. Some may like it, some won't. But, they are colored and I'm not so sure I like that sound anymore.. It's pretty strange, but I'm angry about this realization. I'm not sure who or why or what to be angry at though. Maybe those d*mn AR4x's I should smash up. []

I currenlty own Khorns, Tannoys & a 4 pairs of AR's. All powered with Mac tube/SS gear depending on speakers required load. It's when you throw all these different types of speakers together in one listening room you can really hear the differences. Switching between them is very interesting stuff. All the speakers present the music very differently. It all comes down to personal preference and there's nothing wrong with liking Klipsch speakers. I've owned a pair for 15+ years now. []

I've owned my Khorns for 4+ years now and I still own them. Yes! Garbage in, Garbage out. (especially with Klipsch, very sensitive to this kind of stuff) I guess my comments were based on how the music is recorded/mixed/mastered etc. Some of it is done much better and will therefore sound and image better regardless of the speaker.

I still own and use Khorns every other day. Was listening to them last night. Over the last 15+ years I've climbed the Klipsch ladder from 4.2's to Cornwalls to La Scalas to Khorns. I didn't and don't really have a lot of experience with other speaker brands. Early this year I started dabbling with some different speaker designs to see what was out there. I'd read a lot about the AR speakers and started trying them out in my system. The AR4x's are like $50/pr and very small so it wasn't a huge monetary investment. It was then that I finally started realizing what people meant by horn coloration. Horn coloration is phrase a lot of people will read and have no idea what it really even means. You need to audibly experience it for yourself to truly understand. It's really strange because I've always thought I would take the Khorns to my grave. Frankly, the thought of selling them, and my reasons for doing so, has been a hard thing mentally to come to grips with. I'm just saying to anyone looking at purchasing speakers would be doing themselves a disservice to not try some of the sealed box designs like old KEF, Advent, AR, etc. Especially if you listen to hard rock/rock music. I've come to MY conclusion that Klipsch speakers are meant to be listened to Classical/Jazz music at low to moderatly low volumes. All IMHO. YMMV []

I've owned Cornwalls in the past powered with MC30/C22/Vinyl and they were way too bright for me as well. I tried using rope caulk on the mid horn but that didn't do the trick. The mid horn is smallish and delivers a pinched & colored sound. I have read online that using 2-ply tissue taped over the mid horn seems to help tame it down a bit. I never tried it with mine when I had them though.

At 100Hz I don't even consider the La Scala's full range speaker. The are mostly lower freq midrangey sounding. I never used mine with a sub. I just sold them and bought Khorns instead. That Khorns solved the bass problem. Yes, La Scala's will image better than Khorns. Typically, the smaller the speaker, the better the imaging. Also, the La Scala's benefit from the placement issues that the Khorns have. They don't need to be plopped into corner. So their imaging factor benefits from that as well. I've come to beleive that horn speakers in general have a really hard time imaging because of their inherent design. The horns are just too directional for them to image well. With my Khorns, I do get some decent imaging at times, but that seems to depend on the CD/LP being played..

Hi, I had '89 La Scala's that were replaced by 1980 Klipschorns. The Klipschorns are now out the door as well I think I'm done with the Klipsch brand. Ever since I bought some AR speakers I started realizing how much coloration these horns actually produce. And I don't like it... I guess ignorance was bliss... for a while.

I currently run my Khorns w/MC30's with good results. I've run them with SS MC2505 also with good results.

Yea, I sold my La Scalas a while back and haven't looked back. What was that bass lady commercial they used to play in the 80's? Oh yea... "Where's the BASS!!??"

It's a tough dilemma. The La Scala's have WAY WAY better mids than the CW's. But, they are VERY VERY bass shy... The CW's mids are pinched and sound like someone's shouting SHOUTING at you. But, they have more bass... Frankly, I'd pass on both and waith for a pair of Khorns if Klipsch is your thing....

Looks like they're getting some good pre-release feedback: Ive heard a lot of Blue Note originals and myriad reissues over the years, but based on the sample test pressings heard so far, noneand I mean noneconvey the intensity of living, breathing music-making the way the Music Matters Blue Note series does. The sense of air, texture, and dynamic pop in these grooves is astonishing. The music, of course, speaks for itselfand bravo to Music Matters for realizing that the original graphics and Francis Wolff photos are an equally important part of the Blue Note vibe. I cant wait to see the finished products. Wayne Garcia, The Absolute Sound Theyre BIG and open and definitely work in stereo because theyre not hard left/right stereo. The cymbals are so "chimey" and the skins so open! Even Rudy's typical boxy piano isn't too bad. These are going to be really good....!!!! (Real time reaction after hearing his first test pressing of Horace Parlans Speakin My Piece LP.) Michael Fremer, Stereophile, www.MusicAngle.com As nice as they are, the RVG editions of the Blue Note catalog are about to be blown out of the water. A couple of long-time record industry jazz experts a producer and a prodigious collector have teamed up to release several dozen classic Blue Note sessions in definitive 2-disc 180-gram 45 rpm LP limited editions via their new company, Music Matters, Ltd. (musicmattersjazz.com). Weve found some real gems combing through the catalog, says producer Joe Harley. So dont expect the expected, but look for many overlooked titles in this series. Each gatefold package will contain two LPs they need double the vinyl real estate at 45 rpm and will be lavishly and generously decorated with dramatic Francis Wolff photos from the sessions, acquired with the assistance of producer Michael Cuscuna of Mosaic Records. Weve brought in Steve Hoffman and Kevin Gray to do the mastering and we are working with the original stereo mixes. By the way, these are the masters that were used to mix down one generation to make the mono versions. Knowing that all the figures involved in this project are incapable of performing at less than 1000 percent, these Blue Notes, with first-batch titles by Art Blakey, Lou Donaldson and Horace Parlan arriving at retailers as you read this, should provide new insight into the way this music was originally intended to be heard. Its as though the Holy Grail of jazz has finally been presented in high definition Technicolor. Examples Ive heard live up to the hype: the sound is jaw-droppingly dynamic, alive and holographic with none of the high-frequency tilt many have complained about in regards to the RVG remastered CDs, but rather, a satisfying balance from top to bottom, and an unbelievable soundstage, such that I could swear the musicians were playing several feet past the limits of the two speakers themselves. These allow you to actually hear INTO the music, as well as be enveloped by it. After hearing your first of these, youll develop the Lays Potato Chip Syndrome you wont be able to stop at just one. Mike Quinn JazzTimes, November 07 www.jazztimes.com Music Matters to These Guys The buried treasure for those who frequent garage sales in search of LPs are jazz titles from the '50s and '60s, especially from Blue Note Records. Some Blue Note LPs command big money on the used market because their sound quality is considered definitive. But a new music label is working to challenge this notion, reissuing classic Blue Note titles on super-quiet 180-gram vinyl in the most authentic way possible. Music Matters is the creation of industry veterans Steve Hoffman, Kevin Gray, Joe Harley, Ron Rambach and Michael Cuscuna. Not satisfied with producing just another series of reissues, the Music Matters team decided to create LPs that would improve upon the originals in terms of musical fidelity, pressing noise, and packaging quality. Each will be a 45 spread over four sides, and the gatefold packaging will use the original cover artwork and include unpublished pictures from the recording sessions. Such attention to detail doesn't come cheap -- $50 per title -- but once you see what an original mint copy of Hank Mobley's Soul Station or Dexter Gordon's A Swingin' Affair costs, you'll think these two-LP sets are more than reasonable. The product of first-generation analog master tapes, the Music Matters reissues have a refined sonic pedigree. Collectors and audiophiles prize the mono versions of Blue Note LPs for their supposed sonic authenticity, but, as the Music Matters team discovered, the mono tapes were often derived from the stereo masters. Therefore, many of the reissues will be in stereo, not mono. From the Music Matters website: "To our collective surprise, when listening to the master tape, the stereo was greatly preferred to the (summed) mono." The audio equipment used for mastering and playback is some of the finest available, right down to the isolation products, which come from Silent Running Audio. Music Matters has an ambitious schedule planned: six initial releases, then two titles each month through 2009. There will be 63 titles in all, and they comprise a cross-section of the most important music from the golden age of jazz. Look for the first six titles -- Art Blakey's The Big Beat, Horace Parlan's Speakin' My Piece and Us Three, Kenny Drew's Undercurrent, Lou Donaldson's LD+3, and Hank Mobley's Soul Station -- later this year and in early 2008. Only listening will tell for sure, but the Music Matters reissues have all the outward signs of being the finest LPs available and becoming collector's items themselves. Maybe it's time to hold a garage sale of your own.... Marc Mickelson, editor www.soundstage.com September 19, 2007