Fast1

You are fighting near the same problems as me and with a similar room setup. Just walking the room, you can hear the standing waves in the corners very bad. I would NOT say I have TOO much bass at 30hz and everyone tells me it should just about hurt with my sqft and setup. The windows shake but that is about it. I am convinced I have some serious wave cancelations in the room. My 18 runs clean up to where I think it gives up. I can see that woofer going for it but I don't think the sound in the room matches the work it is doing. I really think an SPL meter can really help. I never bought one but will soon. The way I look at it, if I can determine exactly what freqs are in the dip, I can study the dynamics of the room and figure out what is causing the dip. It is also needed to properly tune an HGS with an EQ. I know the dead spot you are talking about and had to rework my room for that reason. Dead spot right on top of the Lazy Boy ain't cool!!! I see that as a pure learning experience in modes and nodes I guess. I plan to take my HGS to my brothers theater that we designed to see if it will work better with our theoretically sound improved room. If it lifts his roof, then I know it is just my piss poor room.

You know, the very first day I got the 18, it started doing that and I called the guy at Velodyne. He said the gain was just too high on the amp and the speaker was trying to over-travel and the servo was doing it's job. I pulled the gain down to maybe a 1/4 and it does not happen anymore. I am very observant of that though and understand it can blow things up. The subs dbs seem to fall off anyway so I don't think I am sacrificing output (I hope). I could sure be happier with things below 30hz though. Maybe 2 18s will get the job done. I am also sitting on a subfloor with a crawl space and not in a corner with the sub so that might be hurting me a bit. I am suffering the same problems as you with dead zones in the bass. I will not be in this house much longer so not too worried I guess.

NOw you have me worried about my Velodyne crashing. To this day, it has run flawlessly and I do nothing but torment it. Mine is the Older but yet, identical FSR18 with the piano finish. Any ideas what is failing and if it can be curbed in any way? Does it cause speaker failure when it happens?

I am really curious as to why you want to get rid of your Velodyne?? What don't you like about it? I have one but have not heard any other 18s to compare to. I am looking to compliment it with another HGS15 for more punch. Just curious.

Now you have me itchin to try something else to see where my noise factor will be. The whole time I was pointing at the amp because the noise only showed up when I brought the amp in. After only a few tests, it is damn interesting. I heard the Yammies are pretty "to the point" on sound and not smooth with the Klipsch gear. Is that not the case?? I would be looking to use the receiver for 3-4 channels of surround and still run the mains with the Rotel if I can get by with it. I was kinda planning on pre/pro but who really needs 300 watts/chx5-6 for a movie? Klipsch is so sensitive anyway. Thoughts?

I firmly agree. I generally try to find year old models or something. So do you think the receiver can hold it's own against a pre/pro system? OH, along the receiver lines, should I be staying with the Denon line or should I look at something else? I looked real hard at Marantz before because of the feedback on warmer sound. Any thoughts?

Yes, direct mode on the receiver does indeed lower the noise problem. Maybe I need to upgrade my preamp setup. So are you thinking that a high end receiver can hang with some of the quality preamps out there? I guess my brother is running an Outlaw. It seems to lack features like you say, but does everything that is really needed. I meen, who really uses all 200 of the dsp modes on a receiver anyway. Fun for about 30 seconds but is about it for me. PLII seems to work just fine for analog inputs. So have you heard anything about these devices that attach to the speaker cables and are supposed to reduce noise?

Yeah, I have tried different outlets and I am on about the cleanest one. I know the hiss I am getting though is not AC line induced. I thought those Monster units were supposed to "clean" the power? I wonder if they even suppress transients?

You are a familiar face here. I have not been on in a while. Just busy I guess. Anyway, I always hear that the Klipsch is solid when setup properly so maybe I am not there yet. I plan to call Rotel and see if the engineers can tell me what I can upgrade in that tank to improve sound. I just hate hearing that it is close to this and near the quality of that, that little bit might me what my ears seek. Dunno. I do know that the " line conditioner" by Monster did squat but look cool. There is a little AC line noise at times in the house and that did nothing to help it. If there are impedance issues, what can be done to correct it? Do you think that old Denon is in need of upgrade? I guess I can grab my bros preamp and try that. What about these noise suppressors I hear about? A joke?

OK, the hiss is much less noticable when bypassing the 1090 and using the amp in the receiver. The 7s are dead silent when volume is all the way down. When volume is all the way up but no source material is playing, I get a little hiss but what I would consider tolerable. I guess I can trace it to source material, BUT, my brother has a Paradigm system with NAD amps and it is silent with the same material. Acoustical presentations are my problem as well as HT because you just need a dead silent noise floor for quality listening. I guess it may be possible that the receiver is causing this and by using the preouts, it has noise. The 1090 s/n is 125db. I have heard the 1090 can be noisy but not real sure what is causing the noise but sure sounds better without the amp. Maybe it is just "amplifying" the problem.

I use my system for both HT and 2ch. My mains are the only thing external amped at this time with the Rotel 1090. I have an obvious hiss at higher sound levels. I am wondering if there will be any mods for the amp, cabling, or otherwise to correct the noise or if I need to find another amp? On that note, what is recommended for these 7s? Needless to say, I like to make these 7s scream but I also am looking for quality sound and I would say right now, it is damn loud but could be MUCH more refined and detailed. Are tubes the way to go? can I still get crystal clear highs for HT or should I stay in the solid state area? I am wondering if my older Denon 2803 receiver or Pioneer Elite dvd player are hurting me in the quest for more detail? Do I need a real preamp first? OH, I did not the 7s' crossovers with film and foil caps and did the resistor mod as well. I should also note that I have never been happy with these 7s in the mid bass area. I run Velodyne 18 sub with them so it seems like I get nice lows and nice highs but the mid bass just seems flat. Am I asking to much of what I have? Maybe I need two pairs of 7s to get it done

I agree, nice setup. I was really just kidding on selling the FSR. I figure is someone wanted to pay ou the nose, I would happily buy a DD. I like it and probably won't part with it easily. I would like to play with a Klipsch 15, but I tried one before and was not happy. maybe needed more setup though.

Actually I am thinking of buying another FSR. Why not. Everyone seems on a mission to figure out why I want another but many on this forum own more that one. Don't we call this a double standard? I have heard many systems with multiple units and I think impact is what is most inhanced.

Sorry, the FSR is not for sale. however, I guess if everyone is ready to but, maybe we should start the bidding. Say 1500 would be a great start. That is what it would take to match it in performance.

Thanks for the reply formica and thanks for the backup "the ear". I have been rounds with this guy. I think he enjoys ruffling his feathers. I am a great feather plucker. Nice to hear also that you enjoy some solid bass as I do. I guess I grew up to appreciate quality sound no matter is quantity. Sometimes just bragging rights bring a smile to my face.

By the way, we have seen problems with dimmer switched here. they induce a noise in the ground loop. Need a filter to get rid of it.

The first thing I would do to eliminate the power source it take it to a friends house and power it up. If it hums without an input plugged in, I would say the power supply took a hit. Tough to say. B

Well I guess you know that you don't actually hear 15hz anyway. The human body responds to this frequency as pressure pulses which also means the simplest things like air movement over the hair on your arms and yes the nose and sinus cavities helps the body to decided whether there is really any frequency or compression wave at all. This is also the reason some people get sick when introduced to LF waves. An upset of in and outer ear equalibrium.

Well in my area of expertise, there is no replacement for displacement. I guess since the human ear (and other senses) are not as sensitive to very low frequencies, I want to add more in the 15-25hz area. As I educate others with my high output motors, some times we must use throttle restraint or in this case volume restraint. I want the extra headroom and will more than likely enjoy just trying to rattle my roof trusses for fun from time to time. Never the less I think everyone is so concerned about why. One must realize that if I obtain an overwhelming amount of sub bass, I can just --turn it down--

Ok my next question is if anyone can give an opinion of quality bass from the Velodyne vs other comp lines? I hear about the svs and sunfire. I guess my thing with Velodyne has been that servo to control distortion and I know they sound pretty clean on the bottom. My room is I think 14x35 or so. I am already sure that I will need another 18" or so for the type of output I want. I hear about the infinite baffle units, who has them? Are they for me? Size is no biggy for me. Thanks.

Just thought I would chime in on this. Sounds like many people on this forum oppose strong car audio. I must also oppose the inconsiderate that like to show me how loud and inaccurate there stereo is while at the car wash and such. Now these types are up in the dumba** class in my book. However, there are those of us that enjoy a loud quality system in the car. After all, any of you spend much time in a car every week? How about that $50K sound system in the house? I play loud but respectfully turn down at stoplights and sensable places. Come on, many here run several 18" subs in the HT and most people wonder, WHY? Well as per me experience, some people like to hear their music and some like to feel it. On the larger car subs, I have heard many as car audio is more my forte. They are very inaccurate and slow. 12-15" is best for quality sound, but too many think, add a sub (or 3-4) and you now have a cool sound system. NOPE, you just have bass. You need mid bass and treble and make it all match. I really enjoy the mid range performance of 8" drivers my self on a 4 way system. The mobile concert appeals to me. Just my thoughts.

Actually DrWho, my plan is to build a home around my system. My plan is top secret as to the design because of friends that like to duplicate my work. I am just stockpiling my components and once I find the combo I like, I will not change for many years, maybe! I may sacrifice some acoustics to get what I want so I am real sure I won't have a bunch of these acoustic cylinders sitting around everywhere or something like that. Who knows where I will go from here with the design but plan for now will include all walls and ceiling to be concrete except the entrance wall. This is purely for sound insulation for the rest of the house and wil double as a saferoom for bad weather. This way my system and family will be safe!!

OK, the verdict is in. The sub operated fine and per Velodyne, the sub is not bottoming (they say is is impossible) the servo is agressively stopping motion on the woofer to protect it because I was over driving it. By dropping the Volume, I lowered the amps ablity to overpower the driver so it now operates within limits. I guess I figured I could drop this new 18 in the place of the old 15 with minimal tuning and I was wrong. I jumped to conclusions after only 1day with the new 18. Before, I would never run the xover on the 15 over the lowest setting because it pushed out fake sounding bass so I concentrated it on areas it work in. Also by running my mains full range and raising the xover on the sub, I have a nasty spike in frequency because of overlap. I now run the mains with the receiver xover set to 80hz though through tuning have found that xover to be pretty weak(probably 6db per octave) because a 10hz signal still plays (tries) on the mains. I am sure however that we are doing some good here and I may try raising the xover on the mains to 100hz just to test it. All in all the 18 barks with very accurate lows and I guess by running the sub very low on the xover, I was trying to make it undetectable by ear. I guess I enjoy very aggressive lows so I may buy another 18 later and run it very low on the xover so I can really pump that 15-25hz range. Question: can the SLP meter give valuable data at different frequencies to adjust settings for a flat response or will I need more equipment? Trying to better understand room spikes vs system tuning.

Well damn! I think we got it. Per your help and Velodyne, I dropped the volume on the sub which I thought was at 3oclock, but was as 12oclock down to 9-10 and raised the level input from the source unit and raised the xover to 80hz, made my speakers "small" on the source and Walla. I got out of that clipping with better output. I know you will say this is because of the 50-80hz range I boosted. I also have stayed with the "facing the E center" config as it did help with punch. I have not tested movies yet, but I know we are now getting somewhere. I think what was going on was that I had to run the CHT down all the way on the xover because of the weaker xover and FSR drops better at the mark you designate so my tuning error. Not sure of the xover in the source unit, but that will change. I am now happier, but still need to look at this room and see what I can do to better it and also take a crash course in room treatments. I will play tonight and let you know. Anyone know what SPL levels I should see with this unit?

I am very interested in this solfware you talk about. Where can I get it? Is this Harman Kardon you are talking about? Thanks