mikebse2a3
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Posts posted by mikebse2a3
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second page
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hope this is better
front of brochure
This brochure's comments show how all klipsch models were based on the khorn and the compromises that each had so to give us the most sound of the khorn for the design goal PWK had for each model.
khorn- full range and least distortion
lascala- less bass extension but low distortion of khorn within its range
cornwall- bass extension second only to khorn but will have higher distortion(compared to Horn loaded bass) due to direct radiating woofer
Life and Compromises!
PWK really took care of us: All these speakers are great and PWK gave us these different models to fit our needs while still trying to provide as much of the khorn performance as possible.
Thanks PWK!!!
mike
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thanks heresy2guy and firefighter
Arkytype thanks for the info.
I'm going to try to post a sales brochure from I believe from 8/83 for those who like to see these things.
for some reason I get a time out message when I try to upload some of the files so I've reduced the resolution and hope its still readable.
mike
EDIT: SKIP THIS FILE TO BIG
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this one is from the owners manual that came with some lascalas
the belle klipsch is on this one.
mike
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forteII brochure back
mike
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forte brochure front
really hard to get this one to load hopefully the resolution is good enough.
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chorus brochure back
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chorus brochure front
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quartet brochure back
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quartet brochure front
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For those interested here is I believe a late 1989 brochure matching the previous khorn brochure showing what looks to be a lower resolution measurement which looks alot smoother than previous graphs.
Please don't look at this wrong, even if it is a lower resolution. To me klipsch is like all manufacturers who have to choose how best to present their products considering that the average consumer isn't going to know exactly how to read these graphs other than to think one looking more flat and smoother is better when in reality most the competition isn't giving you the resolution that klipsch has been.
I believe klipsch has been one of the most honest and least bullsh*t manufacture of speakers out there from all the dealings I ever had with them.
mike
PS: I might have some of the other brochures asked for earlier if someone still wants them posted but I need to go to bed now(man sometimes I get really caught up in this great forum thanks klipsch) so I'll check in tomorrow.
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here is another khorn brochure I believe made in late 1989
notice how this freq. graph is even smoother than the other ones.
I believe the meaurement resolution was lower which causes a smoother looking responce. believe it or not but klipsch actually published higher resolution graphs than most speaker manufactures I've seen.
bottom line don't take these types of graphs to seriously because they are very limited in what they can tell us. graphs only hint at what a speaker might sound like because once you put it in a room the responce is so altered by the room. thats why the room its installed in is so important because most rooms drastically alter the responce that you see in these measurements. You are for better or worse always listening to the speaker/room system and not just what you see in these graphs.
mike
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here is a copy of the equal loudness curves.
mike
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here is a graph I made years ago with the lascala(red) imposed on the khorn(black) graph. these where from different brochures than ones previously posted. notice both are referenced to 0db but are the same otherwise to the previous post.
notice how the lascala shelves down quicker than the khorn starting at 60hz. doesn't look much different to the eyes but as anyone who has heard lascala versus khorn their is a definite decrease in lower bass to our ears. it just shows how these kinds of graphs can't tell us everything about how something is going to sound to us.
if you look at a graph of the equal loudness contours my understanding of the way we percieve sound levels is say at 1khz a 10db increase in spl will sound approx. twice as loud to us where as at say 30hz about 5db increase will sound twice as loud to us.
to me the lascala sounds great but because of the shelving effect its perceived as less bass than a more flat responce across the freq. spectrum.
mike
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hey jdm56
Glad you found something that fills your needs so well.
The B&W speakers I've heard sound really good and I can see why someone would like their sound.For me its klipsch number 1 for the sound but also the quality of their products and support(simply a great company/people).
Enjoy and stay and continue to join in this forum because its important to have all opinions.
mike
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shiva
thats good info from tony so try some of the contacts he suggest I wasn't able to connect to the address for Jon soderbegt for some reason.
also checking for the class operation switch is a good idea.
I do remember forte building a class AB version of this amp so I'm thinking there want be a switch though.
good luck
mike
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hey shiva
one thought that did come to me although if both cannels changed at different times it couldn't be the problem but check if you haven't yet. Some componets have a switch to reconfigure the pwr supply transformer to except different AC voltages so lets make sure (if yours has one) that its not gotten accidently changed and is in the correct position.look around where th AC cord comes into the amp on the back and if your inside follow the wiring to the transformer.Most likely I would guess you want have a switch but I wouldn't want to overlook such a simple possibility.
AS far as locating the bias circuits by site that would be difficult because most of the componets will look the same as others on the boards. If it does have a control to set bias you might recognize that on the board but it might not even use a control depending on how the circuit is designed.
If you have a digital camera and want to try to take some pictures of the boards and amp so we could see more what you see
but its probably going to be difficult to solve any problem without a schematic/specs. If one channel was working correctly a tech could compare the channels and maybe find some problem but with both the same thats probably not possible.
Sorry wish I could be of more help but without information avaible to you it would be very involved to try to trouble shoot this problem and you still would need to know what levels to set the bias if its adjustable by you.
mike
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Thanks shiva,
Sorry but I live in East Tennessee.
From your description it sounds like this could be a dual mono design on one chassis in other words two completely seperate amps in one box.If thats the case and they did cool down at different times then it looks even more likely there might have been a change in a componet in the bias circuit. Since both have the problem the same way it would be possible that there is a componet that fails more commonly in this design. Sometimes a manufacturer specs a componet's tolerance (like say a resistor) to closely and over time they can fail.When componets fail in a bias circuit it would be possible for the amp to run cooler or to over heat( which if the amp has some fail safes built in will cause the amp to shut down to protect itself (like a Hafler DH200/DH220 design.
I believe Nelson Pass designed some of the forte amps- if my memory is right. Do you have any literature on the amp at all?
Are they still in business? I haven't seen any in a long time.
I was just trying to think how we could maybe see/get a service diagram to maybe help track your problem down.
If I can think of anything else I'll try to get back with you or if you get more information let me know.
mike
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Hi shiva
I'm not familiar with the design of the Amp you've asked about so maybe someone will respond that has actually some experience with it but to try to help you out some I've got a couple of questions.
1st question: Did both channels start running cooler at the same time?
2nd question: You are saying that as far as sound everything sounds OK to you?
I would run test on the power supply voltages if both channels went cool at the same time. (this assumes the pwr supply is common to both channels)
If the amp still sounds ok but runs cooler than normal then I would think the output transistors bias points have changed and for both channels to be like this at the same time would make you look for things that are common to both channels like the pwr supply if the channels share a common pwr supply.
If one channel started running cool first then the other one sometime later then I would look at the Bias circuity of each channel for problems. Some designs use a bias control that can become dirty or bad after years and cause a shift in the bias settings as well as other componets in the bias circuity could have failed.
To really start to check this out properly you really need a service diagram and specifications to know if the bias is really off and what value to set the bias when the problem is located.
Again without a diagram of the amp its hard to help more and what I've said is some general thoughts based on some common ways amps have been designed.
Again hopefully someone will respond that is more familiar with this amps design and can offer more specific help.
mike
Check out these 1980s spec sheets
in 2-Channel Home Audio
Posted
page 8