TheSoundBroker

---------------- On 4/15/2004 9:44:03 AM imahawki wrote: Now here is the one problem I mentioned earlier that I really want some comments on. The sales person used the DD (I am 90% sure it was DD) track of Jurassic Park III and the scene (forgive me, I’ve never seen the movie before) where the T-Rex fights some other dinosaur. When the people arrive (this is before the fight), they see this one dinosaur on the ground, and Grant says (relax, its dead) and right then, the T-Rex that they didn’t see munching on the carcass pops its head up. Now, you should all know that signature T-Rex scream that both pierces the ears and works the sub at the same time, right? Well, when that T-Rex screamed, there was very audible tweeter distortion. It was bad. I listened to it several times to make sure that’s what I was hearing, and I heard it on both the RF-25s and RF-35s. But, A) I’ve never heard this track before, and maybe there is some distortion on the DVD (hey, I’ve seen it before), and this store is the equivalent of a Best Buy where people can walk in and out, change settings, turn gear up way too loud and damage it, etc. I would say the track was peaking at about 90-100+dB when the distortion occurred but I’m not sure. I could make it go away by turning it down. Like I said, the salesperson had it turned up louder than I listen at home for sure. I wont tolerate spending that kind of money on speakers that have horribly audible distortion at below reference levels, but who knows what was actually happening with such a sketchy setup. ---------------- You probably heard the amp clipping. Even though the Klipsch are efficient, that doesn't mean you can't run out of power. Given the level the speakers are capable of and your other impressions, it is unlikely the tweeters overloaded. If it was a large space, and the salesperson had the levels turned up high, the little Denon just simply hit the stops...particularly if they had the speakers set up to run full range without a crossover. We run some pretty hefty equipment here (Bryston 9BSST, 14Bsst (you ought to hear 1Kilowatt thru a pair of RF-7's!), 4Bsst, Powerpac 300's, Theta Dreadnaught) and we have that film. I tried it out and couldn't reproduce the problem on our RB-35's which use the same driver. Kevin The Sound Broker Authorized Klipsch Dealer Oxnard CA

---------------- On 4/17/2004 10:47:53 AM texas42 wrote: I've been contemplating a purchase of these versus a Heritage pair of Chorus. Unfortunately, the dealer in my area wants full markup. Are their any internet dealers that would offer a more 'competitive' price? I would also consider a nice used or demo pair. Any ideas/thoughts appreciated. I already have the RC-7. ---------------- Just so you know... Klipsch just went after a bunch of internet based dealers who were selling product unauthorized (read cheap). They have all been shut down. Dealers are very aware of this. Unless Klipsch gives their permission or you are willing to drive to another dealer's showroom, they will probably not sell to you. We are all in business to make money and if they are smart, the local guys should want to keep your business. Your best bet is to call them back and speak with the manager or the owner. Let them know you intend to make a drive and buy it from somebody else and ask them if they will accept a FAIR offer. Let the local guy (who is obviously sensible enough to sell Klipsch) make some money and be reasonable about things. The guys who call and tell me they will buy current hot product if I will sell it for 40% off hear "click". Kevin Enderle The Sound Broker Authorized Klipsch Dealer Oxnard, CA

---------------- On 4/11/2004 5:37:26 PM m00n wrote: Kevin, It's not that I ever felt as though I had anything wrong accousticly, my issue was that I don't like surrounds that are A) in front of me in back of me. I like my sourrounds to be on the sides of me. With that said, I do like having rears as well. I'm aware that having multiple surrounds is going to cause some problems. However, as I have mentioned in the past, I plan on accepting some of that. Oh... just read your email... No i have not treated the first and second reflection points yet. I have been working with someone who shares your views on my room. He too has been beating me over the head with the "NO DUPLICATE SURROUNDS" stick. You two should get along very well. I do plan on doing more accoustic treatments. I want to work on first and second reflection points, however, artto was having me address bass issues first. He and I have been working on fixing excessive low frequeny issues. I have built some bass traps in the back of my room. Go to the Architectural area, there are two posts that will shed a lot of light on my situation. That is if you have the time. ---------------- Okay...just came back to the forum to check what is happening. No treatment of first and second reflection zones...gag...DUDE! You have to get them treated before you start changing equipment out! LFE treatment is damned important, but treating the first and second primaries is job number Uno when designing a system. Put DOWN the speaker mount! Everything is going to change when you get things treated including your rear channel coverage (comb filter effects). What will be horrible is if you get all new rears mounted...THEN treat... only to find out the new rears don't work and you end up having to go back to dipoles... which is what you had in the first place. Also, trying to measure with uneven response is the way to madness. Treat Treat Treat! Kevin The Sound Broker

Own my own audio and home theater biz the past couple of years. I must be out of my f**king mind! Kevin The Sound Broker Oxnard CA

---------------- On 3/23/2004 5:48:16 PM Trooper wrote: Klipsch THX Ultra2 speakers. Should be out very soon. ---------------- They are now out. Limited numbers. We have a set on order...can't wait! Kevin The Sound Broker Oxnard, CA

---------------- I also dissagree with some things too. In any system, take the left, center, and right speakers, assuming eveything in them is the same... (Some refer to this as timbre or "matching" they will kick butt a company designed center. We spend all this money to get a smaller footprint, so most people can put the center speaker in a cabinet. BS! For the ultimate sound, you have to have a match all accross. If THX means nothing.. And to many people it is a scam...LOL At least THX REQUIRES this for smooth sound/ L,C,R accross the screen.)Other than Q man 99.99999% can never afford, let alone build a center cabinet so the K horn will fit or work. ---------------- In most circumstances, using an identical center channel, tonally and power response wise, is an ideal, no question. However, there are circumstances where a smaller center with an ideally matched mid/top tonal balance can work to your advantage. The RC-7, because it uses a truly identical horn, is one of those speakers. One area I've found this to be especially true is in narrow rooms. Primarily because an identical, closely spaced center does cause comb filter effects and a closely spaced first and second primary reflection point all at identical energy levels which can create a very defined null in the middle (exactly what is happening in this room near as I can tell). This can be alleviated somewhat by acoustically treating both primary first reflection points...but getting the upper midbass drivers at a different physical and slightly different tonal level than the others can also pay benefits. The balance is between the tonal problems caused by comb filtering from three closely spaced centers, vs a slightly different tonal balance shift between the three and only experimentation will tell. The power issue is why I suggested dedicating the RSW-12 to the center. You will note that the ITU-R standard for film soundtrack production and the THX standard assumes one thing...a WIDE room (with a 110 degree offset spacing for the *rears* in the ITU-R layout, you have no choice!). There is no way RICK (sorry 'bout getting the name wrong guy!) will be able to meet the standard in a 10' wide x 23" long room and thus some compromises are gonna have to be tried. Having a fairly wide room also allows you to space out and control the primary and secondary nodes fairly easily...but a narrow room is going to give you much bigger problems. You'll note that this was a suggestion to try! Doesn't aways work out...but it has solved several problems we've had in installs. We sell a fair amount of PMC Reference...the speakers that a pretty large percentage of the best film houses are using in multi-channel production, and they found a horizontal layout to be best with their center...which is identical, but uses a single woofer horizontal layout (check my website to see a picture of an IB-2C and you'll understand). It gives the center an identical power and tonal output...but a slightly different polar response pattern which is what we are looking for here. I'd love to see Rick borrow an RB-75 bookshelf speaker from his dealer to try as a center as well...probably a bit closer in power response to the RF-7's but also with a different polar response in the midbass. Surround wise...I still suspect the layout I suggested may end up giving Rick better rear field coverage. I still suspect the null zone from the rears is what caused the ititial problem he had (a big hole) with one set of RS-7's on the sides only...adding a second set put too much energy in back and created too many nulls and too much splash. Since the *goal* is to get the best coverage for every seat in back while still causing the least number of acoustical problems (or at least the smallest number of predictable ones!), I'd still like to see him try the RS-7's on the back wall to see if his coverage evens out for his back row, then position the sides to even out the energy response where there are some nulls. The best thing is...he has all the speakers there he needs to try all of this out! Kevin The Sound Broker

---------------- On 4/11/2004 1:53:05 PM dr-dezibel wrote: my room is not very big, about 18 x 11 ft. The distance to the main speakers will be about 9 ft. What's better: buying a reference 7 system (rf7/rc//rs7 without sub) or a rf35 system (with sub rw12). Opinions? Any other suggestions? ---------------- If your room is acoustically treated, you *could* get away with an Ref 7 system...but I'd suggest an RB-75 system with an RSW-12 subwoofer (RB-75/RC-7/RS-7. This gets you the bigger compression driver of the RF-7 but in an easier to handle package that won't put out quite so much upper bass energy. The RSW-15 sub is too much, so an RSW-12 would help to fill in the bottom end very nicely. If your budget is a bit more flexible (read bigger!)you could go with one of the new THX Ultra 2 packages (3 KL-525THX in the front, a pair of KS-525THX in the back and a single KW-120THX with a KA-1000THX. All the mains are designed for an 80hz THX crossover meaning they will be a bit easier to tune into a smaller space. That system is going to come in just under $7000. Kevin The Sound Broker

As a new Klipsch dealer who just recieved a complete Reference 7 system and a complete Reference 35 system a few days ago and with a THX Ultra 2 system on order we had the same concerns about harshness. The Klipsch speakers definitely do have a break in period...about 40-50 hours according to the rep. More so with the bigger compression drivers (Heritage, THX Ultra 2, and RF/RC/RB-7) and a bit less with the smaller ones. This is NOT unusual, most speakers do...but with the sensitivity of the horns, you'll find that any harshness inherent in most unbroken in drivers is a bit amplified with a horn...but not to fear, it will smooth out and already has started in ours. We also find that the larger compression drivers are a bit smoother overall than the smaller ones. Less distortion and power compression is a possible reason, but then again we have more hours on the bigger units (wouldn't you!). One thing that is important is that you use good electronics with them and adequate power. Because the Klipsch are so efficient, people have a tendency to think they can use lesser electronics and this is definitely NOT the case. Because they are so efficient and revealing, they actually need better electonics. Power wise, the smaller speakers can get away with less horsepower, but we are finding the bigger Referece 7 system to want some juice. We are driving the Reference 7 system with an all Bryston amp setup (4BSST on the RF-7's, Powerpac 300 on the Center and a 9BSST for the rears with a Bryston SP1.7 or a Theta Casablanca III/Xtreme Dac processor on the front side. As for the room... Acoustics are vitally important. Consider doing some basic room acoustics treatment...it will pay huge dividends not only with the Klipsch, but with practically every speaker system you can imagine. Basic treatment with a foam based system will run you under $500 but it will be like doubling your speaker budget. It IS possible to do it without making the room look like a recording studio...we've had several of our clients do a foam treatment system with a fabric stretch system, this is cheap and very effective. If room acoustic treatments are a no-go, then do what you can (the area rug is a good idea to help tame the primary reflection zone off the floor) and know that what will work best is a speaker with controlled dispersion (Klipsch) driven by *good* electronics without any edge to them and good copper cables...preferably bi-wired. Placement will be vitally important to help minimize standing waves. You may want to consider going to an RF-7 because it is going to be a bit smoother with the bigger compression driver and the fact it has more bass output may actually help to smooth the low end in the room (sounds counterintuitive!). Another combo would be an RB-7 bookshelf speaker on some stands (same larger compression driver as the RF-7) and a RBW-12 sub. The sub will only incite one set of standing waves, will be easier to tune with positioning and can be adjusted electronically (we suggest using a Rane PE-17 single band parametric EQ which has solved many a bass problem for our clients). Kevin The Sound Broker Oxnard CA