Coytee

I've just received my McIntosh 2102 and in several days will have the MC-30's in my hands (which is why I'm selling) I'm contemplating selling my Transcendent SE-OTL's which are DELIGHTFUL sounding amps. I bought them from Daddy Dee and Eric Mandville built one of them. I do not know who built the other. Perhaps those two can chime in if they care to about how these things sound. They're not going to rip your walls down but they DO sound soooooooooo nice. Anyways, I've got $1,500 in the PAIR of them (bridged at 4wpc) so it'd be two amps, tubes & plug wires for the price. I'm not looking to gain on them, but think for as pristine condition they're in and the price for them, that $1,500 isn't a bad deal. To buy a kit will set you back $799 PLUS the time or expense of having them built. If you buy factory units, they will cost you $1,249. (per unit). So you can essentially get a pair of them for the price of the kits. If no one has any interest, no bother to me, I might put them up on ebay in week or two. If Tigerwoodkhorn wants them (as partial towards the Tiger wood Khorns), I'll agree to that in a heartbeat, bump him to the top of the list and deal with the balance somehow, later. (no pressure [6] [6]) Their website, which I'm sure 99% of you know is: http://www.transcendentsound.com/single%20ended.htm

*Man are you going to have fun MC30s and MC2002 can't wait to see what you think about these units!* Just so there is no confusion, I'm not getting the MC2002, I'm getting the MC-2102 and have contemplated the 2200 (If I have the number right) pre-amp. The 2102 was supposed to be delivered today (monday) but no sign of it so I guess it's going to be a day late with the Christmas rush.

*I thought that these require very little power and one didn't want too much. It's sounding like I have things a**-backwards? I want to try to understand this as our HK AVR-435 is so new that I 'might' be able to return it without a restocking fee? Should I have gotten a beefier version* As for returning the HK, I have no idea & will leave that advice to others. With that said, the range of power "requirements" with these is (imho) all across the board. I've heard them with 2A3's and a 400 wpc on the other extreme. BOTH amps sound great under different circumstances. I for one, like the idea of two amps, one low powered for more of a background listening with company over, and a higher powered amp for when I want a LOT of controll over the bass [A] If perchance, I can find a single amp that will do both, then I'll be just that much happier, until then, I'm content with two different amps and a A/B switch.

hmmm... do I understand this... Meagain is in search for a great new speaker. She has no evident access to a Khorn. A forum member has offered to let her hear his system yet no apparent contact has been made. blah blah blah... now, all the sudden, she pops up with a picture of the BACKSIDE of a Khorn without ANY comments of "whoopee, I'm going to go audition..."?? Furthermore, just how many of us would go audition a pair of speakers and in the process of doing so, see the conversation heading to us being able to see the backside. (who has she found with them since she's evidently not taken up anyone here on offer?) Now, what are the odds of a happenstance audition somewhere, THEN seeing the backside of them and THEN having a mechanical problem back there (potential chip on horn). I don't know (nor really care lol) if she's real or not. I just find this sudden insertion of a seemingly cracked horn out of nowhere, rather interesting.

In North York Ontario, Ebay listing that's expired. http://cgi.ebay.com/Empty-cardboard-KLIPSCHORN-boxes_W0QQitemZ5838692424QQcategoryZ61378QQtcZphotoQQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem Guy WILL ship them

Fresh milk helps wash down burnt eggs []

I DO wish you'd sell them because every time I read this I get a "hankering" and every time I've had a hankering, it's resulted in my wife getting angry with what I've brought home. There was recently a set of Khorn boxes on ebay. I think they were in Canada and the guy wanted a local pickup because he didn't want to drag them to post office to get a shipping quote, then drag them back home to inform potential buyers to only then, have to drag them BACK to the post office. I'd guess someone could send him enough cash to make the trip worthwile to post office. perhaps send him a follow up check for balance, or he could send refund check. I've got a Sister in law who lives in San Diego but is going to be moving back to Tennessee "soon" (??). How far out of the way is it to drive from San Diego to Vegas & on to Tennessee? It's been discussed for ME to fly out to her place, help her pack & help her drive everything home. Although Rosewoods have been my dream (ya, thanks Danny! lol), these sure are pretty too. The false corners are NOT included, nor are the fancy networks, correct? Just base Khorn with full trim (sides) and stock network? And the first $2,500 gets the package? or do I misunderstand something? ?

Earlybird? lol Thanks for your help!!! (everyone) Now I have a managable situation, rather than an issue.

Morning update: Seems I'm double doomed! Since I've been having issues with my left side speaker fuse blowing, I figured this OTL issue was the left side. I stuck a wire on the input lead and held the other end in my hand. Put my multimeter on "0.5 DC mA" setting" After fidding around, realized meter wasn't zeroed so I adjusted it in. ok, on the left unit, with the unit turned on, nothing registered as best I could tell. I then turned unit off and the needle climbed up to perhaps the second mark. It took a several second delay and the climb to "2" was slow but distinct. Figuring I had my villan, I thought it best to also do the right amp. Went through same proceedure and turned it off. The needle paused for that pregnant moment, then, much more quickly than the left amp, rose to about 7. I would not say in either case, the needle "jumped" up, just a slow progression. Intrigued, I switched back over to dbx amp and with all input controls set to FULL but the Peach volume turned to OFF I killed the switch of the OTL. About 5 seconds later, BAM, dbx died. Once the dbx dies, it will wait it's 10 seconds or so and then come back on. I allowed it to go through that proceedure to see what would happen and frankly, it gave me full power with no issues. (just tried it again to be sure) So, now with dbx inputs at 100% and Peach also about 100% but Peach volume off, I turned each OTL off one at a time. Each OTL kills the circuit. There is a slightly more noticable pop sound with the one that reached 7 on the meter but they both acted the same. So it seems as long as they're off our out of the loop, all seems to work well. The problem seems to be the process of turning them off and them powering down. If I have them in the system alone, I don't notice ANY untoward sounds or actions. I had them playing and turned them off one at a time and together. The sound simply faded away gaining a bit of distortion as the power withered. Nothing as far as I know, out of the ordinary.

Tomorrow, I'll try to check some of the inputs as you suggest. With that said, don't lose sight of what happens. turning the OTL off was what brought this to light. Turning it off doesn't by itself, knock the dbx amp down. If the input on the dbx is set low enough and perhaps, the Peach output is set low enough, then the two can live happy together. (albiet at modest listening levels only). If I crank (apparently) either of the gain knobs up, then the dbx will get knocked into what seems to be it's protection circuit. It will do this evidently only when the OTL is turned off. but TURNING it off, doesn't seem to be the trigger in a literal sense because the dbx WILL work with it off... just at a reduced capacity. am i making sense? I'm off to bed & will play on it more tomorrow. I DO appreciate everyones thoughts, as it's helped illuminate an issue that I didn't know I might have, and quelled a different issue (dbx) that I thought I DID have.

The dbx amp will come back on, after something like 10 seconds. It might cut right out or it might not (I now think I realize it depends on if the Peach AND dbx controls are turned down far enough) It seems that if they ARE, then it will stay on...unless perhaps a transient comes along (speculation by me) If it does cut back out... then I have to wait the obligatory 10 seconds or so for it to reset. I have never let it repeat this process because it annoys me that it does it. If you'd like me to try it as an experiment, I'd be happy to and report the results.

Mark, I don't know a thing about the OTL wiring. I DO know however, that I've had repeated fuses blowing in my left speaker. The fuse that blew was on Al's ES network and was the fuse for the woofer bin. It in fact, blew out again tonight (as I was having the cut out issues). I cranked it with dbx only in circuit and had nothing but pure woofers woofing. Given what's now clarifying itself, if there IS some kind of issue in one of the OTL's, I'd darn well bet it's the one associated with the left channel. I've blown probably 8 fuses on that side alone and the worst part of it... they blew during moderate listening levels. Seems perhaps, I have an OTL that might warrant looking into huh? I seem to recall from their website him (Bruce) saying something about because of their OTL design, dc can never get to the speakers (it might have been general comment, or might have been specific to his new amp, I don't recall) None the less, I think we now know at least, the Peach and dbx are fine. Later on, I'll put splitter back in, leave OTL's OFF and try it again without powering them up at all. Thanks Richard

For the record, I apologize for my spacing above. I typed that in Word & copied it over. Those started out as single spaced lines and I don't know why they're so messed up. Now, with that out of the way, we hit pay dirt on the amp issue. I just got done pulling the "Y" out of the Peach outputs and plugging in strictly the dbx amp. It ROCKED the entire house. Showed zero signs of strain and simply took what I threw at it. I then pulled it (dbx) out and bridged it (since that was the mode I originally discovered this with). Even while in bridged mode, this thing SMOKED (and I mean that in a VERY good way ) So, somehow, it's the fact of splitting the output of the Peach into the seperate amps that's giving me the headache's. Any thoughts on why it's funky when the signal is split but the OTL's are left on verses off? (why do I get the feeling I'm not going to like your answers exposing something dumb I did?)

Ok, heres an update: I admit I personally found this interesting. Before I go there, perhaps it would be best to give a verbal diagram of my wiring setup. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /> I have a cd and dvd player both plumbed into the Peach. If it matters (and I doubt it would) they are the far left and far second left clicks on the Peach Selector. Ok, signal gets into Peach. On the output side, I have Y splitters on each R & L, so I can run one leg of each channel to the Transcendent SE-OTLs and the other leg goes to the dbx amp. The output of each amp then runs into a Niles a/b switcher and the output of the switcher goes to the Khorns. Ok, so thats the wiring diagram. Heres what Ive found. I got my Multimeter out and of course, it had TWO sets of DC. One evidently in dc volts and the other in mVs if I recall correctly. I surmised that the MV is the setting I wanted to use but I in fact used both so I could rule each one out. Got the amp to cut out, pulled wires off dbx and put the leads to them I did NOT notice the needle moving at all. I even swapped +/- to be sure I wasnt backwards and nothing ever happened. I did this on both MM settings. Confused, I hooked it back up and was NOT able to get it to cut out again. Why so? What was different? The ONLY thing different that Id done was turn the OTLs back on. Wha????? Ok, here is what I was able to duplicate at will: Turned OTLs ON, and was able to CRANK the volume with Peach at full throttle AND the dbx at full throttle, it did NOT cut out. While it was playing, I switched the OTLs OFF and right at 5 seconds, BAM, the dbx cut out. Hmm.. ok I took the outputs of the Peach to about ½ (volume still at full), turned the OTLs ON, and was able to crank away. I turned the OTLs off and right AT 5 seconds, the dbx cut out again. To make a long story short, I fiddled with the Peach controls (dbx inputs still at 100%) and EVERY time I turned the OTLs OFF, the dbx cut out five seconds later. As long as the Otls were left on, everything worked fine. I then moved to the dbx amp and started to pull those inputs down. Triple bottom line, the dbx amp FINALLY did not cut out (with OTLs powered down) until I had ITS inputs cut down to around 50% or perhaps less and the OTLs were still at about 50%. It seems as though turning the OTLs OFF, which I do periodically, is the wildcard. Turn them off, the dbx is hyper sensative, leave them on and everything works as you'd expect it to. So, with the wiring schematic as stated above, does that shed any light? I expect an obvious question of, have you totally isolated the dbx and taken the otls out of the circuit and that answer is no, I have not. I might get to that this weekend if time allows. I just found that I could repeat the issue by the simple fact of turning the OTLs off and wanted to share my findings. Actually, I might try to do it right now. Just so you dont think I messed up and was listening to the OTLs as the power was killed, (crossed my mind more than once because of how consistent it was), I double checked my Niles box AND, took note of the meters dying on the dbx along with one of its lights (above the power button) blinking during this issue. Sooooooooooooo, any thoughts? I sure hate to bring you guys easy problems like why won't my amp power up (fuse blown). I like these strange issues!!

I bought my Khorns off a forum member. I had an OLD Yamaha ss amp (120x2) My first foray into tubes was KT-88 (Jolida 502B). I then bought Danny's Wright 2A3's and they sounded VERY sweet. I then bought Daddy Dee's Transcendent SE-OTL's (2 of them, bridged at about 4 watts/channel). I think THEY sound very sweet. I then bought a dbx BX3 MKIII (something like 120x4, bridgable into 300x2) or something like that. it sounds great but having other issues that don't need to be brought up in this thread. I have bought (and yet to receive) 1 McIntosh MC-2102 which I think is back to the KT88 format 2 McIntosh MC-30's which I think are the 6L6 (?) Never heard ANY McIntosh amp so the last two will be new experiences and I'm still searching for the right mix (for me).

Welcome... With that said, I'll go pull my EZ chair up so I can watch some of the fireworks. Some think blondes are best whilest others thing bruenetts or redheads are the only way to go.

Hi Mark, I appreciate the offer and might do it. I want to be sure it's just not me & my ignorance first. I'd hate to waste (even more) of your time with you going through it unnecessarily, than you've already put into it answering here. With that said, PLEASE don't let me forget (in case I DO send it back), I might want to buy one of the walnut cabinets... they look so nice. Wife works tonight & won't be home. I'll try some of the things mentioned and won't have any issues with her not liking the volume. as for signal level from source, it's either a Sony cdp or dvd (meaning I have both). I don't THINK there is an adjustable signal on them but I'll look in their back, just in case. Will report findings (or more questions) later. []

*Although a few others have said this, I'll repeat it too. The level controls on either device have nothing at all to do with how much POWER you can get, or how LOUD you can play the amplifier. Nothing at all to do with "headroom" or "power" or "loudness" or speaker volume. You could have the DBX controls set to nearly OFF and still get Xhundred watts, or how ever many it puts out. Sometimes people think such controls have something to do with "turning down the power of the amp." Not so.* Ok, Im really NOT arguing but I dont get something here. If the input controls on the dbx are FULL left, I get zero output, if the controls on the Peach are full left, I get zero output, so how can "level controls on either device have nothing to do with how much power I can get out"? In order for the speakers to play to, lets use 110db for a reference point, they will need X watts of input. For the dbx amp to put out that wattage, its input can be at lets say 50% and the Peach at 50%. The Peachs volume control can also be at 50%. (now we have a general starting point for all parts of the puzzle) Heres where Im not getting it... If the dbx input is reduced to say 25% (to reduce the hiss) and the Peach stays the same, then the volume control on the peach will have to be turned up FURTHER to compensate for the reduction in the dbx, to achieve that same loudness. (fair?) Now, what if in addition to reducing the dbx to 25%, you ALSO reduce the Peach to 25% (because of the possible overloading issues on dbx). Arent we now having to turn the volume control up even FURTHER to achieve the same loudness as above, since both variable knobs have been reduced? If so... dont we run out of volume rotation sooner or later? If the volume control cant turn any further to its right, if the Peach has its controls toned down to (lets say) 25% (to prevent the dbx from going into protect mode) and the dbx is toned down to 25% (to reduce that hiss), how can I then have all the headroom & max volume as suggested? Ive tried variations of the above and frankly, the loudness coming through the speakers is more on par with the OTLs and their 4 bridged watts, rather than the expected assault of 125 watts. Im not one to argue any of you guys because youve forgotten more than Ive ever known (or will know), Im just missing something in the logic. Again, this is becoming moot because on Monday, the 2102 will arrive and the 30s will arrive on Christmas. Oh, and I hate burnt eggs []

Thank you for the instructions. I'll have to do it tomorrow when I get home.

Meagain, I would suggest to you that the Khorn will be the LEAST obtrusive of any of the Heritage line, in spite of it's being so massive. Trust me when I say that if ANYONE in the world would freak out if she knew just how behemouth a Klipschorn is, it would be my wife. When I brought mine home, I KNEW that I'd better get my hiney working until they were tucked into a corner. If she came home & saw their massiveness out in the middle of the floor, I'd been booted out for sure. I would suggest to you that the Khorn will take up LESS usable floorspace in your room, than just about ANY other Heritage speaker. I can speak with experience on the LaScala as I've owned a pair of them for 25 years. Look at your setting... do you in fact have decent corners? Are said corners occupied with corner cabinet or other things that MUST stay there? if you do (have the corners), not only will the Khorns tuck in and hide better than most, they will (IMHO) sound better than most, so you have the best of both worlds. It still amazes me that something so big can be so small. []

deleted I love my home connection

deleted I love my home connection

OK, now we're getting somewhere... but another wall of ignorance. I DO have a multi meter. I am not well versed in it other than most basic "is this outlet going to zap me" Might I presume I click it over to dc, set it up for (how many) volt reading and then just simply touch it to the outputs of the Peach? If there is ZERO dc output, I'd get a zero reading and all is implicetly well??? If it bumped at ALL (stricktly speaking), then I might have an issue? Is there a range of acceptablity? Sorry for more quesitons but THIS endeavour, I CAN do... I just need a bit of guidance on specifics.

My take on it is, if the inputs on the dbx are set at say, 50% AND if the Peach's outputs are set at say 50% (to help eliminate cutting out by the dbx), then I don't have as much headroom there as contrasted if I was able to keep BOTH units set at say, 100%. (I realize I still might not be fully understanding it) If I'm in the room listening, it doesn't matter that I have both tamed down because I'm not out to cause ear bleed. However, when I'm downstairs working, I DO turn it up to ear bleed levels so that I can hear it easily downstairs. Oh well... most of this is probably a moot point since the MC-2102 will arrive Monday or Tuesday. If push comes to shove, I might even get the C-2200 (??) preamp for the 2102 and see how it does in contrast with the Peach. This way I can then look into the balanced cables too. (I think the 2200 was designed with the 2000 and 2102 in mind?) If Terry hadn't given the dbx a clean bill of health, I'd be fairly sure something was amiss inside it. Given all is as it should be, and how behaved the Peach was with my Jolida 502 and OTL's, I can only surmise that somehow or another the Peach & dbx don't get along too well together. I'm sure that NO ONE would ever think that I was perhaps pushing things a bit too hard... [6]

Alas, I do recall that being clarified. Something about the dbx amp that I can't figure out... when it's at moderate listening levels (not cranked up by ANY stretch) it will sometimes cut out and seemingly go into it's protection mode. After "X" number of seconds, it will come back on. Sometimes it will cut back out and othertimes it will be fine. The delay time before it returns seems to be the same which is how I deduce it's in protection mode. Oh, and the blinking light on the front is another hint for me. Given that DeWick has gone through amp and given it a clean bill of health, I can only presume we have a matching issue here. What I THINK I'm slowly figuring out via trial/error... If the outputs of the Peach are too high, it tends to knock the dbx down. If they're backed off, then it seems to be much more behaved. To cut back on the hiss, I need to cut the dbx inputs back. Couple that with the Peach controls being cut back, I'm cutting everything back on the very amp I'm trying to use to crank it up with. Kind of self defeating. My guess is, it seems to be acting like the Peach might be overloading the input on the dbx. It's this frustration that's causing me to decide to swap the amp out. The fact that I LOVE the looks of the MC-2102 doesn't hurt either. Just found out the 2102 has been passed off and should be in my hands on Monday.