steamer
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Ahem...back to the ORIGINAL question...
Good amps for subwoofer use...
Blue Ice Amp...not my cuppa. Low damping factor and it is OBNOXIOUSLY gaudy. There are also few published specs on their website. Actually there is basically NOTHING on their website to speak of. There is an arguement as to whether that amp has a -3db point at 40 hz...you really want to use it to drive subs? Crown? Full set of specs and a forum where you can post and the engineers will post back answers, often in hours. Most of the models are down 3 db at 10.
Check out the Crown K1 and K-2. Both highly respected for LFE use.
Crown XLS. Not bad, a bit low on the damping factor...not my first recommendation for a dedicated sub amp.
The new Crown XTI series looks very good for sub use. It is also voltage efficient. Over double the damping factor of XLS but more $$, though it does have a built in LFE parametric section...kinda like a BFD light onboard!
Crown Macrotech's. Very good, but watch your wall voltage...they can suck it down. 20 amp lines are a must.
Crown I-Tech. Big horsepower. >5000 on the damping factor which is HUGE. Yeah, it is a good subwoofer amp to say the least. Wall voltage is a "no duh". By the way...why doesn't Krell publish damping factors on their amps? I looked in their manuals and couldn't find it.
Crown Comtech. These sometimes come up CHEAP. I just missed a Comtech 1600 on Ebay, a massive beast. Woulda made a great sub amp. Input pack needs to be upgraded to take XLR's but that is cheap. Again...you'll need 20 amp lines for the bigger ones.
Crown/Techron. Talk about massive! These are industrial amps used to run servo motors, shaker tables, etc. You think Krell will run loads...man, they aren't even on the same PLANET as the biggest Techron amps. Their biggest setup requires 230v 3 phase, will run a 0.25 ohm load, and delivers a constant (not peak, constant) 180 amps of power which translates into MANY MANY kilowatts of power...enough to literally kill you. They also happen to sound PHENOMINAL. So there. [
] The 7560 and 7570 come up on Ebay in the $700 range but they probably should be gone thru since many have lead hard lives. Rebuilt, they would giggle uncontrollably at a home subwoofer setup. Other than Crown...
Bryston 7B. Far Far Bigger power supply than your 4B. More control.
Bryston 14B. Stereo version of the above...but a bit less power supply capacitance/ch than the 7B. Stick with 7B's if you can for LFE use (this from direct experience running the bass columns on PMC MB2/XBD's where we were clipping the 14b and had better luck with the 7B.
Bryston 28B SST monoblocks. Krell look out. This beast is coming soon. Get an electrician. No pricing announced yet that I know of...probably $5K each.
Another 4B...shoulda grabbed that other one...you coulda made money! Good amps in mono. Problem is, their damping factor gets halved and that could be an issue in that it starts at 300 to begin with. Up top and in stereo, still a great amp. In mono, maybe not the best LFE amps. Current SST version is better in that respect.
Mackie M2600. Big, beefy horsepower. Also needs wall amperage. I may have a used one coming in (actually getting a pair...but will probably keep one and sell the other). One of the better deals in bass land...lots of people keep them.
QSC Powerlight, PLX-2. Excellent for bass. Bob Lee at QSC is active on the AVS forum.
QSC RMX (Bigger ones). Also excellent but power hungry. The guys at Danley Labs like the bigger QSC's and that says a LOT for bass.
Lab Gruppen. Expensive studio amps...another recommendation from the guys at Danley Labs for LFE...trust me, those guys KNOW bass.
Behringer EP-2500. Probably the best cheap sub amp. I sell them for $299. >300 damping factor, 450 w/ch at 8, 1300 bridged mono, though again, you half the damping factor in mono. Lot of guys using them for dedicated IB sub amps on the AVS forum.
Krell? Not bad. I've replaced a number of them with Bryston amps. Their current models are bling bling city with more polished metal than is on display at the Barrett Jackson. In studios...sorry, you are probably gonna find Bryston if they are using higher end passive cooled amps. They are more neutral, more transparent, and bulletproof. Just why is it that Krell doesn't do a 20 year warranty like Bryston? They certainly charge enough for them...oh wait...I've seen a number go down in flames...that's why. I used to sell them. Oh, and I don't believe their current amps are 1 ohm rated. Why bother? Nobody in the home market runs constant 1 ohm loads after the silliness of the Apogee Scintillas faded from memory (thank GOD!). As for banks of pro subs...most pro guys simply thow more amps at it than run tons of cabinets with a super low impedence and risk an amp meltdown in the middle of a performance (the ULTIMATE engineers nightmare).
Soundbroker,
Thankyou for a very informative post.I had a pair of 7B's in another system that REALLY reqired the power to bring the speakers to life.I actually powered my LaScala's with them for a few months.Way overkill oviously and I know what they can do.Sold them to fund my transition to tubes and have never looked back until I got this crazy idea of a dedicated sub system to pair with my Scala's and tubes.The 4B does very good about 98% of the time but....you know what I'm talkin about,never enough!
I have not been on the forum much lately due to my other addiction called a Harley Davidson.Well I go to the sub forum today and theres 4 damn pages...WTH.I was hoping this thread would just dissapear...felt like an idiot.But the info contained in this thread far outweigh's that.Thankyou all.
Greg
Note:I will probably get another 4B and understand the damping is halved in mono operation but think it can be overrated sometimes....here we go another debate LOL.Check out this link on the very subject and post away!!!!
http://www.audioholics.com/techtips/audioprinciples/amplifiers/dampingfactor.php
might as well continue the thread
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I do not understand this guy. A couple months back I offered to buy this from this ad at 1100. He said someone was before me. Then I saw them for 950 I offered again. He said he would get back to me. Now 750 I offered again as Im onlt a couple hours away?? WTF???
I think the guy is a TRUE flake!
something is wrong here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
maybe he is just afraid to unhook them from his system out of fear!!
anything could be possible with this FLAKE!!!!
Greg
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OK,I can say I am doing this and I have no instruments just my ear.I greatly respect PWK but what I am hearing is better and I cant go back to passives.I believe Shawn has had good success with active crossovers also...I am sure there are more here that have as well.
The Doc wrote:
As far as more gear is concerned, by going to an active crossover you are running the same amount of gear. You have source>preamp>crossover>amp>speaker instead of source>preamp>amp>crossover>speaker. There are certain advantages to having the speaker directly coupled to the ampifier: less power compression, more efficient, better damping, no back-emf, etc etc.... The fact that you have more amplifiers doesn't matter because there is only ever one amplifier between your ears and the source for a given passband.
I was concerned with this issue as well but realized that I was just replacing my passive x-over with an active and in my case no more interconnects because I have a preamp section in my CDP.The benifits of dividing signals before the amps are well documented and repeated by the Doc above.Furthermore I have no passives to rob power from my horns(when your working with 2 or 4 watts why not maximize what you have).I use SS amps for the power consuming lows.
Doc also wrote:
As far as 'more wires and more noise' - I don't think another foot here or there is going to matter when your signal has already passed through a thousand feet in the studio. And if there is noise in an active setup, then there should be noise in the passive setup as well. Noise is an indication of a poor power source anyway and is a good sign that it needs to be cleaned up - which will result in an even smoother sound. Ground loops are a sign of poor grounding, which means there is a safety hazard - not a huge deal I don't think, but a ground loop indicates that the 3rd prong is pretty much useless in the event of large voltages.
No problem here,this is the quietest system I have owned due in part to the pro balanced configuration of everything but my tube amps.Doc wrote:
And I believe a layperson should have no trouble dialing in an active crossover system without measuring equipment....maybe an SPL meter if they don't trust their ears. You should get very good results by mimicking the original passive crossover - and I would argue even optimum results that way. And you can just measure the time-delay requirements in feet: ~1ms per foot. It certainly isn't rocket science and I'm sure the layperson would enjoy learning along the way.
I have no instruments but my ears and was able to dial things in.I feel that you need as much level control as possible.In my case my pro SS amps have input level controls along with the various level controls on my Rane active x-over.Oh I chased my tail for awhile...lol.The best advise I could give in this aspect would be to make small adjustments and listen for awhile.DONT try to voice the system with a few favorite recordings.Listen to as many as possible and get a feeling for what the sound is doing then make small adjustments.
Note:After a few weeks of dialing it in I had a friend over who has heard the system many times.His comments were this:
within 5 min he said"I cant believe how well balanced this sounds"5 min later his comment was "I cant hear the speakers,they disappeared,the sound isnt coming from the speakers",he is not an audiophile and I doubt if he has ever heard the term disappeared! but he said it.He was astounded by my tube amps and what they do for horns and is equally impressed with my biamp rig.
I think if you choose this path you will be rewarded with great sound.
Greg
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From Little Rock Ark.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7420848365&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:US:1
A pair of LSI's with extra bass bins. Plain black models but they are industrials so should have the 200 watt K43 woofers. Adding the extra bass bins helps out with power handling so they keep up with the HF section better, and the extra 2' puts the horns at 4-5' in height.
I generally consider $250 per box a good price for LSI's, and this set is the equivalent of 6 boxes so the $1500 BIN isn't far from a pretty good deal if everything is in working order.
I'm not affiliated yadda yadda yadda
M
Michael,
What do you think of this idea
If the slow boat to China doesnt work out,then I might just start cuttin' to fit the Altecs and stack everything on top of the bass bins I got from you AND use my integrator from my BagEnd system to boost that roll off of them bins.They would see a 12db per octive gain starting at 70 hz and below!!!!Can those pro woofs handle that,the bins are a sealed enclosure with that type of roll off or does the horn configuration change all that?
Just an idea.
Greg
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I have this site saved in favorites,great DIY ideas there and many more pics to look at!
Greg
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Colin,
What size is it?
Greg
Edit:Nevermind,I see the spec at the bottom by the price.
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Looking forward to the pics.
Greg
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I believe you dog is chillin' with the new setup lol.
any advise on getting a set of Scala's to China?
Greg
BTW great pics!
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Greg, good luck with your deal...
he said Red flags and China...nice pun...
Bill
Yes,lol
Greg
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Front me! I'm good for it! LOL!
Charlie,
I know you are,just say when!
Greg
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Don't you wonder deep down why a guy would go to all the expense to ship in used speakers, instead of buying new, to China, without seeing, or hearing them?
LOL,yes I see potential RED flags everywhere.I agree it makes little sense.
Greg
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If this guy's gonna pay, how about contacting Klipsch to see if they can supply original packing?
Thats an interesting idea.
Greg
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I don't know how much this guy is paying you, but for the hassle and risk, couldn't you sell to someone locally instead?
This all sounds too much PITA to mess with imho.
M
Cant get any bites locally.I had them sold to my step brother but he decided to get a 50 cal.Marine sniper rifle.If WWlll ever starts I know who I will be with,he cant fire 20+ serious pieces of hardware all at the same time.Guess no one wants to pay $1400 for a near perfect set of Scala's.The potential sale is thru an ad I ran at Audiokarma.
Greg
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Great advise guys.
A little update here.I have researched the guys feedback and have corresponded with a few of them thru the Audiogon site.One reply was that he sent the guy a pair of Von Schweikert speakers with no problems,another replyed that he would do buisness with him again.
The potential buyer wants to send me the money via paypal when we determine a final cost In my mind I would immediately transfer the funds to my bank and ship after I see the money.I have a local shipper that is an agent for BAX shipping.I will get more info from him on Monday.
Unless the potential buyer is maskeradeing as several people across secure websites ho looks to be for real.He says he will deal with the logistics of this and only wants me to get info on local shippers.Looks like he has expierience with shipping to China with all the purchases he made on audiogon.
Thanks for all the input,Greg
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speak wrote:
I am gearing up to get back into tubes. thanks for any leads.
check out Marchand,they make tube x-overs and sound very good I hear(active).He can supply you with a kit of any configureation.
been looking at thier tube x-over for awhile now.Just a matter of time.
Greg
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I understand the part about cash in hand!!!Thanks
I have to figure out the logistics and that was where I was at a loss.Thanks to you guys I have an idea where to start IF it gets started.
Too bad he couldnt drive halfway like Michael did on the bass bins!Would that mean we would end up in HawaiiLOLThanks Michael.
Great info that has made me think,more is welcome!
Greg
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everything sounds on track so far....different story if we were talking about computers or computer software which have export restrictions. kinda like the idea of having an agent in the states recieve the speakers and have the buyer stage the shippment from the agents residence....if that was an opiton.
I will check into that with him,guess I ask him to specify an agent or recommend one and go from there.
Thanks,Greg
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Rule #1: Get the money up front.
Rule #2: Arranging shipping is the buyer's responsibility.
Rule #3: Get the money up front.
James
not only get the money up front, be very wary of money orders, they can be forged and you will be stuck. A wire may be a good idea, but you will have to give bank info. Paypal is also tough as if teh buyer says that they did not receive the speakers, you wil be charged.
Be very careful here.
Chris
Very good info,something I did not think of AND will be aware of.The buyer has refered me to his feedback on Audiogon.Looks ok but anything can be forged.
http://cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fb.pl?user=Lindseyf&&&&
what do you guys think?
Greg
Edit:didnt know that once the money was in the paypal account I could forfiet if buyer said he didnt recieve them!
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Rule #1: Get the money up front.
Rule #2: Arranging shipping is the buyer's responsibility.
Rule #3: Get the money up front.
James
They wont ship without the money in my paypal account.
Thankyou,Greg
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Greg, the easiest way is to ship them to someone in the buyer's family in California. Let that person handle the dirty work.
And what makes you think they have family members in California? I assume you are referring to the San Francisco area?
Mike
The buyer specificly asked if I would deliver to a local logistics company,no mention of family.
Greg
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Greg, the easiest way is to ship them to someone in the buyer's family in California. Let that person handle the dirty work.
If the buyer does not want this type of drop ship arrangement, find an import/export company in Cedar Rapids that does significant export business to China/Asian rim countries. They will know exactly how to get the Scalas to a business where the buyer will need to get them. The shipping companies will be near the airport.
If he has incredible resources, he could pick them up at customs. Bear in mind you are looking at a 10-20% theft/loss rate on products going to the Asian rim by private shipment.
Thankyou,
Now were getting somewhere,good info,I have a place to start now.Any more ideas are welcome!
Greg
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OK guys,this is a good one.
I think I have my Klipsch LaScala's sold to a guy in
CHINA,yes I know...wow buku shipping costs.
My mission is to get them there UNDAMAGED!
These are my babys and I want them to arrive safe and sound.I am not sure how to proceed here.I know I will not package them myself,and need a professional shipper.
I want to make sure they do it right and will probably try to supervise the actual packaging,if they let me,at least I want to know how they are gonna do it!.
Any suggestions are welcome....HELP!!!!
Greg
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Charlie,
Love that antique TT,bet you had to fight a mob to get it!
Greg
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Atleast you can shut the speakers off if you don't want listen to them.
LOL.that is true!
Greg
] The 7560 and 7570 come up on Ebay in the $700 range but they probably should be gone thru since many have lead hard lives. Rebuilt, they would giggle uncontrollably at a home subwoofer setup.
Finally got my cornwalls all hooked up.
in Technical/Restorations
Posted
Congrats,
The Cornwall was my dream speaker in highschool,then when I got out of the Navy in 85' they didnt make them anymore.Dont think ebay existed at the time to get used and no local.So I was stuck buying LaScala's and have been stuck ever since!!!Gotta have a sub though...lol,kind of the other extreme.
Hey enjoy and dream of all those MODS you can do to them!
Greg